How do washered Irish masonry screws work?

armabelle

I was told that I could use these nails directly to a wall just by hammering them in by the DIY store person. I tried to and had to hit the thing about 50 times and even then I couldn't get it all the way into the wall. Could someone please tell me if I am doing something wrong? I hit it very very hard and my hand was even sore after.

thank you

Bigus

They won't hammer into concrete. Realistically you need a good drill , good masonry bit , rawl plugs and screws for a good fixing.

looksee

You can use masonary nails in concrete (that's what they are for), but...

You need a heavy hammer - heavier than an ordinary hammer.
You need to hit it straight on.
It is quite possible for the nail to break - so wear goggles
Depending on the type of concrete you can easily come up against a pebble in the mix, which you will not hammer into.
Mortar is easy enough to hammer into, concrete blocks are not easy and lintels are impossible.

If you are female or in any way have thin, office worker wrists, either use the drill and screws scenario already described, or find someone with expertise and muscle.

BoatMad

armabelle wrote: »

I was told that I could use these nails directly to a wall just by hammering them in by the DIY store person. I tried to and had to hit the thing about 50 times and even then I couldn't get it all the way into the wall. Could someone please tell me if I am doing something wrong? I hit it very very hard and my hand was even sore after.

thank you

These are typically used to secure battens and the wood helps guide the nail into the masonry , it still requires a good hammer and a steady wall placed blow.

armabelle

looksee wrote: »

You can use masonary nails in concrete (that's what they are for), but...

You need a heavy hammer - heavier than an ordinary hammer.
You need to hit it straight on.

not female and am hitting the thing like my life depended on it but it goes in very slow and hard

Could I drill a smaller hole with a masonry bit and then nail the nail into the pre-drilled hole?

armabelle

Bigus wrote: »

They won't hammer into concrete. Realistically you need a good drill , good masonry bit , rawl plugs and screws for a good fixing.

I wanted to get screws but the guy said no, he said this is all you need. :eek:

GottaGetGatt

You dont use a drill, just a good hammer, 20oz if you have it.If not just put the circle part up against the edge of a bit of timber or something and hit the nail.It will come loose and slide towards the head of the nail and be much easier to drive into the concrete.

armabelle

BoatMad wrote: »

These are typically used to secure battens and the wood helps guide the nail into the masonry , it still requires a good hammer and a steady wall placed blow.

I purchased masonry nails and I purchased washered masonry nails. I believe the ordinary masonry nails are for wooden battens aren't they?

This is what I need to fix to a wall, please see pic

armabelle

GottaGetGatt wrote: »

You dont use a drill, just a good hammer, 20oz if you have it.If not just put the circle part up against the edge of a bit of timber or something and hit the nail.It will come loose and slide towards the head of the nail and be much easier to drive into the concrete.

nah, just got a normal hammer but it is kinda heavy. In my experience with DIY - which is not much - when something is difficult it is because it is wrong. The guy at the store just said to nail it in. Do you think he sold me the wrong thing for what I want to fix?

Armchair Andy

No they're OK for the job. Try nailing through the steel as well it'll hold the nail in place better for you when you hit the masonry behind.

To be honest they're tricky for a DIYer maybe just take the hit and go buy some rawl plugs and screws.

armabelle

Armchair Andy wrote: »

No they're OK for the job. Try nailing through the steel as well it'll hold the nail in place better for you when you hit the masonry behind.

To be honest they're tricky for a DIYer maybe just take the hit and go buy some rawl plugs and screws.

That is what I wanted. I put up drywall steel channels with those with rawl plugs but the guy insisted that these were the right thing. So I don't really know what to do now. Must I buy a bigger hammer?

Armchair Andy

Well the guy was right imo. Buy a bigger hammer or cheaper a box of screws and rawl plugs.

Can't advise what size screws cos I've only ever seen steel nails used.

armabelle

Armchair Andy wrote: »

Well the guy was right imo. Buy a bigger hammer or cheaper a box of screws and rawl plugs.

Can't advise what size screws cos I've only ever seen steel nails used.

the holes on the joist hanger are really small, can you see in the picture I posted above? The DIY store said that they didn't have ones for masonry that small. They showed me some big thick ones but they were too thick for the holes on the joist hanger.

Mech1

Are we not allowed to rent a Hilti Gun?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gnaN8cEUKWM

GottaGetGatt

armabelle wrote: »

That is what I wanted. I put up drywall steel channels with those with rawl plugs but the guy insisted that these were the right thing. So I don't really know what to do now. Must I buy a bigger hammer?

Try and make the holes on the hangar bigger with the nails before fixing it to the wall.

Armchair Andy

Mech1 wrote: »

Are we not allowed to rent a Hilti Gun?

You must be in the undertaking business:pac:

Bigus

looksee wrote: »

You can use masonary nails in concrete (that's what they are for), but...


Depending on the type of concrete you can easily come up against a pebble in the mix, which you will not hammer into.
, concrete blocks are not easy and lintels are impossible.

.

Lintels are generally concrete, so hence my comment

Masonry nails are an old tech pain in the ass poor UNRELIABLE fixing in a 2016 world of good drill bits and drills.

Fair enough using with a hilti gun but that's a whole complete system of gun nails and bullets that'll scare the sh!t out of a diyer.

looksee

I think there is a knack to hitting nails hard enough to go into concrete - you have to have total confidence the nail will go in and the hammer will not bounce back! You don't so much hit the nail with the hammer as encourage the hammer to hit the nail in freefall. Kinda. And don't believe anyone who says that masonry nails don't bend. And if one goes in wrong you aint never gonna get it out again. I don't even attempt it now as my wrists are not strong enough.

looksee

Bigus, both my replies were co-incidental to your posts, not responses I don't disagree with you, they are a brute force solution to a problem. However while all (concrete) lintels are concrete, not all concrete is lintels. Can you follow that, not sure I can

Bonzo Delaney

To be honest I think your going about job all wrong
I think Calahonda 52 mentioned in an earlier thread a far easier and quicker way of fixing the hangers and 2x2 joists is to fix timber to the walls at both ends first, 4x2 or similar hire a masonry dril by a few express nails and fix the timber to the wall
Then nail or screw your joist hangers to the timber. Then just drop in the 2x2 joists into the hanger and fix them in place you'll prob need to stabilise the 2x2s in the middle the off cuts from the joist hangers or galvo strap could be used every 4 ft fixed/ screwed to the 2x2 and your ply ceiling straightening the 2x2s

armabelle

Bonzo Delaney wrote: »

To be honest I think your going about job all wrong
I think Calahonda 52 mentioned in an earlier thread a far easier and quicker way of fixing the hangers and 2x2 joists is to fix timber to the walls at both ends first, 4x2 or similar hire a masonry dril by a few express nails and fix the timber to the wall
Then nail or screw your joist hangers to the timber. Then just drop in the 2x2 joists into the hanger and fix them in place you'll prob need to stabilise the 2x2s in the middle the off cuts from the joist hangers or galvo strap could be used every 4 ft fixed/ screwed to the 2x2 and your ply ceiling straightening the 2x2s

thanks, this is what the store person told me and sold me but maybe your (and Calahondras) idea is better. What are express nails?

Bonzo Delaney

The ones that would suit your application would be 8 mm in diameter and 100mm long.
You drill an 8 mm hole through the timber and blockwork about 120mm over all then just beat in the express nail

https://www.google.ie/search?q=express+nail&client=safari&hl=en-ie&prmd=ivmn&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi03LK1hf_NAhXnIcAKHT06BjYQ_AUICCgB&biw=320&bih=460#imgrc=6GhO44rgwL3t1M%3A

M.T.D

If you have not bought your 2x2 yet get 4x1 and use on edge. They will give a much firmer frame for your ceiling.
As Bonzo and Calahonda have suggested fasten a piece of 4x1 to the wall to support your timbers, this has the added benefit you will not have to use as many masonry fixings.
Fasten the hangers to the 4x1 wall support first, then fasten the support to the wall, then drop in your ceiling timbers and secure (plaster board screws would be more than adequate for the weight of timber you are using).