Sight line guidelines ?

Rooy

Maybe its a monday thing , but I have just spent an hour trying to find the NRA guidelines online for sight lines for one off development without any luck , or more specifically the Cork County council ones in case they differ.
I am aware of the general numbers , but interested in what the impact of a roundabout at say 70m is on a requirement for a 90m sightline.
Thanks in advance

JimmyMW

Rooy wrote: »

Maybe its a monday thing , but I have just spent an hour trying to find the NRA guidelines online for sight lines for one off development without any luck , or more specifically the Cork County council ones in case they differ.
I am aware of the general numbers , but interested in what the impact of a roundabout at say 70m is on a requirement for a 90m sightline.
Thanks in advance

I was looking for this info myself a few months back and i found it impossible to get any clear document/regulation setting out the sightlines required. I found the best thing is to get on to the roads engineer over the area in question and have a chat with them on it.

sydthebeat

NRA 'Design manual for roads and bridges', Volume 6 section 1 Part 1 NRA ID 9/05

http://www.cit.ie/exampapers/PastExams/Civil,%20Structural%20&%20Environmental%20Engineering/CSTRU_8_Y4/2009%20Semester1/Exam%20attachments%203.pdf

Gerryww

I had major issues with sight lines so feel your pain. Try searching NRA TD 41-42. Won't let me post link as new user on Boards.

It is not the speed limit of the road that determines sightline distances instead it's the design speed of the road. This is the speed at which vehicles can actually drive on the road.

E.g in my case it was a country lane which 80kmph limit but vehicles could only realistically travel 50kmph which when proven via speed survey then became the speed for which sightlines were required. Depending on your circumstances this might allow you to only require sightlines of 70m thus eliminating the roundabout problem.

If having major difficulties contact a company-snip-. They specialise in sightlines/ road issues. Proved great help with my problem

Rooy

Gerryww wrote: »

I had major issues with sight lines so feel your pain. Try searching NRA TD 41-42. Won't let me post link as new user on Boards.

It is not the speed limit of the road that determines sightline distances instead it's the design speed of the road. This is the speed at which vehicles can actually drive on the road.

E.g in my case it was a country lane which 80kmph limit but vehicles could only realistically travel 50kmph which when proven via speed survey then became the speed for which sightlines were required. Depending on your circumstances this might allow you to only require sightlines of 70m thus eliminating the roundabout problem.

If having major difficulties contact a company called -snip-. They specialise in sightlines/ road issues. Proved great help with my problem

Thanks Gerry , will review that. In my case i do have planning , just about have the sightlines , but it is a planning condition also , but a developer is going to add a roundabout on my sightline as part of a park development , so a bit concerned about the impact on my planning , im ptrobably never going to find an answer in a document , but persumely if its a small roundabout and i can see over it then im thinking i should be okay ,didnt really want to highlight it by contacting planning office.

Johnnyhpipe

Rooy wrote: »

Thanks Gerry , will review that. In my case i do have planning , just about have the sightlines , but it is a planning condition also , but a developer is going to add a roundabout on my sightline as part of a park development , so a bit concerned about the impact on my planning , im ptrobably never going to find an answer in a document , but persumely if its a small roundabout and i can see over it then im thinking i should be okay ,didnt really want to highlight it by contacting planning office.

Build it before he does!

Rooy

2 follow up queries that someone might be able to give their opinion on.
In regard my original query , i met up with the developer who was very decent and said he could consider giving me access to my site via the adjacent estate development (a cul de sac lines up nicely at rear of site).

1. Could this new entrance only form part of a entire new planning application ? (it is at opposite side of site)
2. What would i need from developer - just a letter of consent ? , or does this constitute some sort of Right of way ?

Angry bird

Rooy wrote: »

2 follow up queries that someone might be able to give their opinion on.
In regard my original query , i met up with the developer who was very decent and said he could consider giving me access to my site via the adjacent estate development (a cul de sac lines up nicely at rear of site).

1. Could this new entrance only form part of a entire new planning application ? (it is at opposite side of site)
2. What would i need from developer - just a letter of consent ? , or does this constitute some sort of Right of way ?

Include all of the access from the public road to the site within the site edged red, shading the right-of-way in yellow with the necessary landowner(s) permission. This will also need to be legally nailed down which may or may not need to be included within the planning application.

irishfeen

Hi lads and ladies, having the same problem with Cork Co Co in relation to the lack of into with regards sightlines..

We live on a 80km (Regional road "R") and I am starting out collecting info on the feasibility on the site alongside the homeplace - does anyone know what sightline will get us past the planning process - the uncle owns the land atm so taking away as much of the ditch as needed would be possible. What are the general guidelines apart from the very vague writeup from CCC? - the site location would mean a considerable distance of the ditch may need to be taken, would the council allow this?

BryanF

from recent applications in cork co co: 90m each direction taken a min of 2.4m back from road edge.

Angry bird

Probably more for a regional road. Position entrance with the best available sightlines. Show hedge being cut back, replaced or set back where required.

sydthebeat

While we're on the subject, my local authority require sightlines on a regional road in both directions, from a distance of 3m from the edge of the road to a point 90m away on the inner edge of the carriageway.
As you can imagine road leads to a significant amount of hedgerow removal.

Any one else as stringent

irishfeen

Sorry mods getting this thread back going after so long but it there doesn't seem to be much point in starting a new thread,,

Just an update, it appears now that Cork County Council are looking for sight-lines of 3m back from road edge/120m each direction on regional roads (R). Very tough to meet on most roads without significant ditch set backs or complete removal.

Angry bird

There are policies as well for retaining hedgerows. The long and short of it is, Councils don't want people building on regional roads.

irishfeen

Angry bird wrote: »

There are policies as well for retaining hedgerows. The long and short of it is, Councils don't want people building on regional roads.

It appears to depend on who’s granting the permission, some won’t mind but others will try limit hedgerow removal.

sydthebeat

Policies on removing hedgerows are one thing.... The ability to stop the removal is another.

In a pure case of law of unintended consequences, I had a case where a LA refused permission for a dwelling as they determined too much hedgerow was to be removed to achieve sight lines. Fine said the landowner, who went and removed ALL the hedgerow along his site. We reapplied, being able to show well in excess of what was required... And the council had to grant, as there was now no impediment to the sight lines.

So a policy which was in place to protect the hedgerow caused way more of a hedgerow to be removed....

irishfeen

sydthebeat wrote: »

Policies on removing hedgerows are one thing.... The ability to stop the removal is another.

In a pure case of law of unintended consequences, I had a case where a LA refused permission for a dwelling as they determined too much hedgerow was to be removed to achieve sight lines. Fine said the landowner, who went and removed ALL the hedgerow along his site. We reapplied, being able to show well in excess of what was required... And the council had to grant, as there was now no impediment to the sight lines.

So a policy which was in place to protect the hedgerow caused way more of a hedgerow to be removed....

As always - there is more then one way to skin a cat

irishfeen

Just to update on sight lines in County Cork - Cork County Council now require 120m (not 90m) of a clear sight line (3m back to centre of carriageway) on Regional roads in order for planning to be approved.