No seat belt fine

corajen

Hi,
I recently received a fine and 3 penalty points for not wearing a seat belt. Now the day in question I was parked and proceeded to reverse out onto the road. I did not have on my seat belt because I was involved in a car accident four weeks previous where a car came from a side street onto the main road and hit my car throw me over to hit my shoulder and head against the side window of my car. Garda were called the other driver admitted his error. I had damaged (severe bruising) to my shoulder and chest, all medically proven. I had after the accident been unable to put the seat belt around my shoulder and chest while reversing. On the day in question at the time of reversing I saw a garda car coming around the corner from another road and he had to avoid me , on passing my car he saw that I was in the process of putting on my seat belt, he then put on his sirens and flashing lights. he would not accept any verbal explanation from me and was quite abrupt and started checking around my car. The garda told me to bring my license to a garda station which I did on the day. I explained the situation to the garda on the desk in the station he suggested that I should report the incident to the superintendent.
My question do I have any rights here can I claim because I was not able to wear the seat belt because of injury, can anyone assist,
Thank you

hearmehearye

If you couldnt operate a vehicle in the manner that you are required to by law as a result of injury, then you shouldn't have been driving in the first place.

godtabh

Sounds like you shouldnt have been driving in the first place

Kimbot

Actually, arent you free from wearing your belt whilst reversing????

john kinsella

hearmehearye wrote: »

If you couldnt operate a vehicle in the manner that you are required to by law as a result of injury, then you shouldn't have been driving in the first place.

Incorrect, one of the very few exceptions to wearing a seat belt is when you are reversing your car.

http://www.garda.ie/Controller.aspx?Page=1724&Lang=1

If what you say is true OP I think you should talk to the Super and fight it.

hearmehearye

john kinsella wrote:

Incorrect, one of the very few exceptions to wearing a seat belt is when you are reversing your car.

Wow, TIL.

pablo128

jonnycivic wrote: »

Actually, arent you free from wearing your belt whilst reversing????

Actually you are correct. It's on the garda.ie website as an exemption for wearing a seatbelt.

That garda who done the OP is going to look silly now.

_Brian

Genuine or not the problem is your creating a backstory for the incident.

Now, if you'd a letter with you from your GP and shown him it would probably have been enough.

But you were winging it by not using your seatbelt when you decided you didn't need to and decided yourself it was ok for you to break the law, not on the advice of a professional.

Ya could be on thin ice pushing this, definitely wouldn't be going to court to appeal as the risk is too great of doubling the punishment.

_Brian

john kinsella wrote: »

Incorrect, one of the very few exceptions to wearing a seat belt is when you are reversing your car.

http://www.garda.ie/Controller.aspx?Page=1724&Lang=1

If what you say is true OP I think you should talk to the Super and fight it.

I was sure that exception had been removed a few years ago. Very interesting.

Kimbot

_Brian wrote: »

Genuine or not the problem is your creating a backstory for the incident.

Now, if you'd a letter with you from your GP and shown him it would probably have been enough.

But you were winging it by not using your seatbelt when you decided you didn't need to and decided yourself it was ok for you to break the law, not on the advice of a professional.

Ya could be on thin ice pushing this, definitely wouldn't be going to court to appeal as the risk is too great of doubling the punishment.

Exactly this, 15 years ago I had numerous operations on my chest so couldnt wear seat belts and had to get a letter from the hospital to have on me when I was in the car at all times. Got stopped at a few checkpoints, showed them the letter and there was no issues.

PaddyWilliams

pablo128 wrote: »

Actually you are correct. It's on the garda.ie website as an exemption for wearing a seatbelt.

That garda who done the OP is going to look silly now.

Sure is

http://garda.ie/Controller.aspx?Page=1724&Lang=1

Greenman

OP, let us know the outcome.

iguana

But isn't it also illegal to reverse onto a road?

148multi

You are not required to wear a seat belt while reversing a vehicle, can't quote the section of the road traffic act.

PaddyWilliams

iguana wrote: »

But isn't it also illegal to reverse onto a road?

From a minor to a major road I think?

EDIT : Actually, here's the rules on reversing



25.—(1) Before reversing a driver shall ensure that he can do so without endangering other traffic or pedestrians.


(2) A driver shall not reverse on to a major road from another road, or whenever his vision is such that to reverse would be likely to endanger other traffic or pedestrians.


Either way, from what I can make out, the Garda was wrong on the seat belt issue.

iguana

On the day in question at the time of reversing I saw a garda car coming around the corner from another road and he had to avoid me

See this is the part that makes me think reversing in this case was illegal. I don't think that a car driving on the road should have had to 'avoid' the OP. The OP could in all likelihood have the points for not wearing a belt dismissed. But could he then have points given for reversing in a manner which was probably illegal.

Kimbot

iguana wrote: »

See this is the part that makes me think reversing in this case was illegal. I don't think that a car driving on the road should have had to 'avoid' the OP. The OP could in all likelihood have the points for not wearing a belt dismissed. But could he then have points given for reversing in a manner which was probably illegal.

Theres a bit more to the story than the OP is saying I feel.

bonyn

corajen wrote: »

Hi,
I recently received a fine and 3 penalty points for not wearing a seat belt. Now the day in question I was parked and proceeded to reverse out onto the road.
...
On the day in question at the time of reversing I saw a garda car coming around the corner from another road and he had to avoid me , on passing my car he saw that I was in the process of putting on my seat belt, he then put on his sirens and flashing lights.

I always thought there was an exemption for reversing.. if so, when did you put your seatbelt on?
While reversing, or while the car was stationary upon completing your reversing?
Or As you were slowly moving off?

If the latter, you probably don't have a leg to stand on.

Edit.. also if you paid the fine it's too late to do anything now

pablo128

While it may have been the reason why the garda originally stopped the car, the OP wasn't charged or summonsed for reversing so its a non issue.

Collielover

Actually the Garda.ie website is out of date regarding the seatbelt while reversing;

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2006/si/240/made/en/print

"Exemptions from Regulations

11. (1) These Regulations do not apply to -

(a) a person wearing a disabled person's belt,

(b) the holder of a certificate of a registered medical practitioner in the form set out in Schedule 2,

(c) a person giving instruction in or in respect of the driving of a vehicle,

(d) a person conducting a test of competence to drive under Part III of the Act, or

(e) a member of the Garda Síochána or of the Defence Forces acting in the course of his or her duties."

GM228

iguana wrote: »

But isn't it also illegal to reverse onto a road?

It's illegal to reverse onto a major road from another road.

Otherwise it's legal to reverse onto any road when clear to the driver they won't endanger others.

It's also only fair to point out that, assuming the OP was reversing from a driveway, a drive way can not be considered a minor road. It's a driveway.

dr.fuzzenstein

hearmehearye wrote: »

If you couldnt operate a vehicle in the manner that you are required to by law as a result of injury, then you shouldn't have been driving in the first place.

godtabh wrote: »

Sounds like you shouldnt have been driving in the first place

GM228

[Deleted User] wrote: »

It's also only fair to point out that, assuming the OP was reversing from a driveway, a drive way can not be considered a minor road. It's a driveway.

Spot on.

hearmehearye

Dr fuzzenstein, it's not a high horse comment. If OP couldn't reverse the car with a belt on, what's to say they couldnt properly move to see beyond obstructions etc in the roads when moving forward?

dr.fuzzenstein

hearmehearye wrote: »

Dr fuzzenstein, it's not a high horse comment. If OP couldn't reverse the car with a belt on, what's to say they couldnt properly move to see beyond obstructions etc in the roads when moving forward?

Well, you said:

hearmehearye wrote: »

If you couldnt operate a vehicle in the manner that you are required to by law as a result of injury, then you shouldn't have been driving in the first place.

Which was disproved here:

http://www.garda.ie/Controller.aspx?Page=1724&Lang=1

The driver of a vehicle while reversing the vehicle

So it was at least a little hasty.

L1011

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

Well, you said:



Which was disproved here:

http://www.garda.ie/Controller.aspx?Page=1724&Lang=1



So it was at least a little hasty.

The Garda website is not the law, and is inaccurate/hopelessly outdated

PaddyWilliams

L1011 wrote: »

The Garda website is not the law, and is inaccurate/hopelessly outdated

Yes, looks like it's out of date, as per a previous post with new laws for seat belts. You'd have thought that that Garda website would be updated with the new laws though, it's the Garda website after all. And the public are viewing it!

foggy_lad

hearmehearye wrote: »

Dr fuzzenstein, it's not a high horse comment. If OP couldn't reverse the car with a belt on, what's to say they couldnt properly move to see beyond obstructions etc in the roads when moving forward?

OP should have medical certification to exempt them from wearing a seat belt but I'm thinking doctors will not issue such certificates without a very good reason and some difficulty when reversing might not quite hit the mark?

iguana

GM228 wrote: »

It's illegal to reverse onto a major road from another road.

Otherwise it's legal to reverse onto any road when clear to the driver they won't endanger others.

If the guard had to act to avoid hitting him, while the guard clearly had right of way, then the OP was reversing in a way that was a danger to other road users. He almost certainly broke the law in the way he was reversing.

GM228

iguana wrote: »

If the guard had to act to avoid hitting him, while the guard clearly had right of way, then the OP was reversing in a way that was a danger to other road users. He almost certainly broke the law in the way he was reversing.

That would be my take on it too.

That said was it "clear" to the OP that the reversing manoeuvre was a danger (i.e did the OP see them before moving) or did the Garda car come into view afterwards because it's based on if it was clear to the driver their manoeuvre would be a danger - bit of a grey area IMO.

hearmehearye

dr.fuzzenstein wrote:

Which was disproved here:

And since re-proven from Statute.

MarkAnthony

OP the paperwork should let you know how to proceed to court with this, that's your rights in this instance.

Traffic Cops deal with a huge proportion of morons, they tend to be in a permanently bad mood. The trick is to kill them (figuratively speaking) with kindness and remember that your job (presumably) doesn't ever involve picking little bits of people up and putting them in body bags due to rank laziness and stupidity. Checking around your car is their job.

Collielover

PaddyWilliams wrote: »

Yes, looks like it's out of date, as per a previous post with new laws for seat belts. You'd have thought that that Garda website would be updated with the new laws though, it's the Garda website after all. And the public are viewing it!

That same page on the Garda website though has a link to the rules of the road manual which is up to date and correct - I just found the relevent SI for information purposes as with all the amendments to the Road Traffic Act it can be hard to know where to find what you are looking for

goz83

hearmehearye wrote: »

If you couldnt operate a vehicle in the manner that you are required to by law as a result of injury, then you shouldn't have been driving in the first place.

Ignoring the legalities of it for a moment, if the OP was unable to wear a seatbelt while reversing, I would seriously question their suitability for driving in the first place. A seat belt is a very minor nuisance and when worn properly, does not impede your ability to reverse a vehicle. A bit reckless imo. And thats's not coming from a high horse either. I too had an accident and i could not drive for months and it was unsafe for me to drive for a long while, even though I could have driven, but did not, in consideration for my life and other road users. A bolt of pain can cause a fatal accident.

Pat Mustard

Mod note:

We might move back to the topic of legal discussion regarding not wearing a seat belt.

grogi

pablo128 wrote: »

Actually you are correct. It's on the garda.ie website as an exemption for wearing a seatbelt.

That garda who done the OP is going to look silly now.

But there is no exception for the driver of a stationary vehicle, is there?
The moment the OP stopped the car he committed an offence.

ohnonotgmail

grogi wrote: »

But there is no exception for the driver of a stationary vehicle, is there?
The moment the OP stopped the car he committed an offence.

that is something of an obtuse reading of the law. If you are reversing there has to be a point where you are stopped before you proceed forward.

grogi

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

that is something of an obtuse reading of the law. If you are reversing there has to be a point where you are stopped before you proceed forward.

Dura lex, sed lex...

MarkAnthony

grogi wrote: »

Dura lex, sed lex...

What have condoms got to do with this?

grogi

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

that is something of an obtuse reading of the law. If you are reversing there has to be a point where you are stopped before you proceed forward.

Nevertheless - under S.I. No. 240/2006 there is no exemption during reversing.

The only valid exemptions are:

1. a person wearing a disabled person's belt,
2. the holder of a certificate of a registered medical practitioner in the form set out in Schedule 2
3. a person giving instruction in or in respect of the driving of a vehicle
4. a person conducting a test of competence to drive under Part III of the Act
5. a member of the Garda Síochána or of the Defence Forces acting in the course of his or her duties

ohnonotgmail

grogi wrote: »

Nevertheless - under S.I. No. 240/2006 there is no exemption during reversing.

The only valid exemptions are:

1. a person wearing a disabled person's belt,
2. the holder of a certificate of a registered medical practitioner in the form set out in Schedule 2
3. a person giving instruction in or in respect of the driving of a vehicle
4. a person conducting a test of competence to drive under Part III of the Act
5. a member of the Garda Síochána or of the Defence Forces acting in the course of his or her duties

which just makes your original post meaningless.