What to replace HKC with

HappyHarry

Hi,

Getting new door and windows and think it's time to upgrade the alarm.

Recommended systems and fitters welcome.

Old windows were brown timber, all cables and sensors are brown. New windows are cream PVC, so sensors to be replaced and hopefully the cable exposed on the frame. 5 Windows and 1 Door to be replaced.

Would also like system that can send SMS in event of alarm (probably GSM based). Have Virgin internet and phone, if that is an option. Am attracted by the Siemens (or similar) that can be accessed from an Android App.

Also on system are panic button, 2 x PIRs and 1 additional door (not being replaced) and external bell. Prefer fully wired system and would consider adding fire and carbon monoxide sensors depending on the cost.

I've read a few post on recommendation but all seem to be a couple of years old, what are the current recommend systems for this type of small 3 BR house?

Any recommended installers in the Dublin area.


TIA.

Evolution1

If you have the HKC 8/12 panel you can add a module that will give you remote access via an app on your smartphone. It's €59 a year to use the service.
The cost covers the world SIM card in the GSM unit and also covers SMS messages that get sent along with push notifications from the securecomm server. The system isnt depending on wifi like free systems. There's videos on YouTube

KoolKid

I'd recommend Siemens or GSD.
They give you free apps & free alerts.No recurring subscription charges. Features over HKC would be network fail notifications in a matter of minutes rather than hours. Siemens/Vanderbilt also have the benefit that you have access to the built in browser & web server.
You can access your alarm from any device with a web browser.
Nice CCTV integration with GSD also.

HappyHarry

Thanks for the replies.
GSD is a new brand to me. They appear to be only wireless, is that right?

I though wired systems were better because there are no batteries to change and no wireless system that could be blocked. Perhaps this is dated thinking, have the wireless ones improved?

One thing to mention is that all of the current windows have only a single shake sensor. Should I use dual type sensors and also put two on the windows with two openings? House is wired with 4 core cable at present, if I'm replacing cable, should I go with more cores?

Can the additional window sensors just be connected in series with the only ones on the same window?

Any particular dual sensors that are recommended for PVC windows?

Thanks for the advice so far.

kub

HappyHarry wrote: »

Thanks for the replies.
GSD is a new brand to me. They appear to be only wireless, is that right?

I though wired systems were better because there are no batteries to change and no wireless system that could be blocked. Perhaps this is dated thinking, have the wireless ones improved?

One thing to mention is that all of the current windows have only a single shake sensor. Should I use dual type sensors and also put two on the windows with two openings? House is wired with 4 core cable at present, if I'm replacing cable, should I go with more cores?

Can the additional window sensors just be connected in series with the only ones on the same window?

Any particular dual sensors that are recommended for PVC windows?

Thanks for the advice so far.

Yes wired is better than wireless, if the existing cables are still in good condition i would advise that they be reused. With regard to blocking wireless signals, well don't let that worry you too much, it is military grade equipment that would be required nowadays to attempt to interfere with wireless systems.

So you currently had inertia shock senors on their own? I can't understand the logic of installers who do this. What you should have is inertia sensors and contacts, this will detect vibrations on the windows/ doors and the contacts will detect the opening of same. 4 core cable is plenty for both detectors as they can be joined together on the same zone assuming that the total amount of detectors on that zone does not exceed 10.

I always use the GS 613 interia's with inbuilt contacts.

KoolKid

HappyHarry wrote: »

Thanks for the replies.
GSD is a new brand to me. They appear to be only wireless, is that right?

I though wired systems were better because there are no batteries to change and no wireless system that could be blocked. Perhaps this is dated thinking, have the wireless ones improved?

One thing to mention is that all of the current windows have only a single shake sensor. Should I use dual type sensors and also put two on the windows with two openings? House is wired with 4 core cable at present, if I'm replacing cable, should I go with more cores?

Can the additional window sensors just be connected in series with the only ones on the same window?

Any particular dual sensors that are recommended for PVC windows?

Thanks for the advice so far.

GSD is around over 10 years now. Their systems are both wired and wireless, the same as most these days. I have been involved in the testing and development of their new i10-70 panel which is due for release very soon.
As said, interference with wireless systems and devices would not be a concern.
+1 on the GS613 sensors also.
+1 on using shocks and contacts also.

Evolution1

Go with the Wired setup. Wired will always be better.
Anything receiving a radio frequency can be flooded. Only a very select few systems will change there frequency to avoid being jammed. Most systems will tell you that the system is being jammed but all that entails is a message or phone call. It's also very difficult to tell if the panel is being completely jammed or if it's just receiving interference from something else on the same frequency.

KoolKid

I have been installing professional wireless systems conforming to EN50131 for years now.
No issues whatsoever with them been jammed or compromised.

Evolution1

KoolKid wrote: »

I have been installing professional wired systems conforming to EN50131 for years now.
No issues whatsoever with them been jammed or compromised.

That's because they are wired systems you've been installing ........

KoolKid

Nope Wireless is what I'm talking about.;)

Evolution1

KoolKid wrote: »

Nope Wireless is what I'm talking about.;)

What make of systems do you reckon are immune to jamming ?

KoolKid

Your the one making the claims , Your the one that should be providing some examples or proof.
I am telling you what I have found in my experience installing wireless systems for well over 15 years now. I'd be very interested to hear your experience & maybe some proof you may have to offer us all.

Evolution1

KoolKid wrote: »

Your the one making the claims , Your the one that should be providing some examples or proof.
I am telling you what I have found in my experience installing wireless systems for well over 15 years now. I'd be very interested to hear your experience & maybe some proof you may have to offer us all.

If it's allowed on here il link videos of every system I've been able to jam. Il even show you how to do it.

Please don't speak for the other users on here, they can ask me themselves if they wish.

Again I'm asking you to give me the name of a system you use and il give you a video. I don't see why you find it so difficult to believe ? ?

Wifi can be jammed.
GSMs can be jammed. ( you've seen this first hand )
Car fobs can be jammed.
Automatic gates can be jammed.
Infrared signals although they are light they can also be flooded resulting in a Jam.
Smart home modules can be jammed.
X10 can even be jammed.

Also it's been said on here before with Visonic systems that when the PIRs go faulty / or have a bad power up that they then flood the 868mhz channel and cause a rf jam on the panel.

KoolKid

Still all talk & still no proof.
How long are you in this business yourself?

Stoner

Evolution1 wrote: »

If it's allowed on here il link videos of every system I've been able to jam. Il even show you how to do it.

Please don't speak for the other users on here, they can ask me themselves if they wish.

Again I'm asking you to give me the name of a system you use and il give you a video. I don't see why you find it so difficult to believe ? ?

Wifi can be jammed.
GSMs can be jammed. ( you've seen this first hand )
Car fobs can be jammed.
Automatic gates can be jammed.
Infrared signals although they are light they can also be flooded resulting in a Jam.
Smart home modules can be jammed.
X10 can even be jammed.

It might be better if you didn't post videos here about that. Certainly showing how to do it wold be a big no no.

However if there was a standard or an industry test that showed what systems could be compromised hosted on a third party site that you linked to then that would be acceptable IMO as such a list might help users select a system.

the third party web site would also not want to have any how to jam it guides either please.

KoolKid

If you have information on how to jam or defeat all these systems perhaps send this proof to the manufacturer.
I have suggested this to Evolution1 before. But he has never pursued this with them AFAIK.

kub

Why can't ye take this to HST lads? I would love to know more.

KoolKid

So would I , but I suspect there is no more.;)
And Evolution is not on that forum as I don't think hes a PSA licenced installer.

fred funk }{

I wouldn't mind him having access. Seems knowledgeable and it might generate a bit of activity.

kub

fred funk }{ wrote: »

I wouldn't mind him having access. Seems knowledgeable and it might generate a bit of activity.

I agree, who cares about PSA licences anyway?

KoolKid

LOL
There was complaints when I had non installers in there.:pac::pac:

fred funk }{

KoolKid wrote: »

LOL
There was complaints when I had non installers in there.:pac::pac:

You had every Tom Dick and Harry in there and lots of others that you forgot about. Non of them ever contributed anything to the forum, they just lurked. Something tells me Evolution would be quite an active poster in there.

KoolKid

Never forgot about anyone. I knew who everyone was. And every one was in the industry. His problem is he can't make up his mind who he is. The story seems to change all the time. Active might be right, active imagination.