being changed back to original role years after changing contract

lifeandtimes

Hi,

A while ago i started a thread regarding a work place ballot, an increase in salary and the outsourcing of jobs (http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057582032) at the time we were advised this did not effect our department, however it has come to light ut is.

currently we are a customer care back office department our department, we deal with customers but not face to face or on phones,a lot of us would have orignally been on sales or customer care department by phone and then got promoted to this role after interviewing, we receive change of contracts to confirm we are to work in this dpeartment and are no longer call center agents, we have now been here for years,now our department has been outsourced and we are all being advised that some of us will be going to a "type of back office department" the involves calls and the rest will be going back to the call centres.

obviously everyone is very upset by this, we have been advised that our change of contracts are effectivly worthless.

Im not looking for legal advise on what to do but is a change of contract a legal document or is everything all based on your orignal contract? We have been to our union but they are useless, they say there is nothing they can do about this however if you read my original thread thats not suprising

thanks

MarkAnthony

You are looking for legal advice and as such, and given the nature of your issue, speak to a solicitor.

In this instance you might find one willing to act for all of you and provide a reduced fee, which isn't particularly high for this sort of thing in the first place.

lifeandtimes

MarkAnthony wrote: »

You are looking for legal advice and as such, and given the nature of your issue, speak to a solicitor.

In this instance you might find one willing to act for all of you and provide a reduced fee, which isn't particularly high for this sort of thing in the first place.

Hi, thanks i will be speaking to a solicitor and cheers for the point of maybe reducing it with more of us.

sorry i didnt realise it was legal advise knowing if a change on contract is a legal docuemnt or not worth the paper its printed on.

I know the basic "A contract requires an offer, acceptance and consideration" but not sure how it bares with amnedments etc, thanks for your help anyway

Icaras

How can a union be so useless. When you get legal info you should go to the union and demand back all your paid fees as they are not doing their job.

MarkAnthony

No one knows, definitively, without looking at the contracts. Most solicitors will also be able to give you ancillary advice around whether or not going forward is advisable. I wouldn't be relying on the advice of randomers on the internet, especially in relation to employment law. The only thing worse than a barrack room lawyer is one with an agenda and bloody hell are there a few of them on boards.

Best of luck with it. Hopefully someone will be able to advise on general principles. I'm bowing out of that one I'm afraid as employment law isn't something I know enough about to give you a steer. It's more complicated than simple contract law I'm afraid.

lifeandtimes

Icaras wrote: »

How can a union be so useless. When you get legal info you should go to the union and demand back all your paid fees as they are not doing their job.

Hi Thanks for your reply.

I originally wasnt part of the union but joined after what happend previously to protect myself and it now seems pointless as they say they cant do anything, really feels liek we are being left out to dry

lifeandtimes

MarkAnthony wrote: »

No one knows, definitively, without looking at the contracts. Most solicitors will also be able to give you ancillary advice around whether or not going forward is advisable. I wouldn't be relying on the advice of randomers on the internet, especially in relation to employment law. The only thing worse than a barrack room lawyer is one with an agenda and bloody hell are there a few of them on boards.

Best of luck with it. Hopefully someone will be able to advise on general principles. I'm bowing out of that one I'm afraid as employment law isn't something I know enough about to give you a steer. It's more complicated than simple contract law I'm afraid.

Id like to thank you for your input anyway, seems like this this will be a difficult one to manoeuvre

Mrs OBumble

Icaras wrote: »

How can a union be so useless. When you get legal info you should go to the union and demand back all your paid fees as they are not doing their job.

Unions ideally do what the majority of their members want.

So if the majority have agreed to a deal that suits most workers but which people in one department or role don't like and wouldn't have agreed to, then the union will seem useless to the people in that department/role.

Also, unions often have an over-riding principle of saving jobs: they would rather a deal with sees people moved into a broadly similar (but still not the same) job, than offered redundancy.

lifeandtimes

Maybe a point to make regarding this matter is there is an issue with contracts.

Our employer does not have copies of our contracts,they do not have a copy of our original or the change of contract and are asking us to produce them.

They've said if we can't then they can do whatever they like with our roles.

The union themselves have said do not produce as the onus is on them to have a copy of each of them to confirm who's contract says what and where they should work and who can be moved etc but I'm afraid the union may be wrong

Does anyone know what usually happens in situations where your employer does not have a copy of your contract?

GM228

lifeandtimes wrote: »

Maybe a point to make regarding this matter is there is an issue with contracts.

Our employer does not have copies of our contracts,they do not have a copy of our original or the change of contract and are asking us to produce them.

They've said if we can't then they can do whatever they like with our roles.

The union themselves have said do not produce as the onus is on them to have a copy of each of them to confirm who's contract says what and where they should work and who can be moved etc but I'm afraid the union may be wrong

Does anyone know what usually happens in situations where your employer does not have a copy of your contract?

The union is correct, the onus is on the employer.

Both the employee and the employer should have a copy of a contract, whatever the employee does with their contract is their business, but an employer is required to keep a copy until at least 12 months after an employee leaves an organisation.

That's one issue and a seperate issue to your main issue regarding what they can/can't expect you to do which in the absence of any proof of terms and conditions leaves no way for either side to prove what they can/can't do.

MarkAnthony has provided you with the best advice a few posts back:-

MarkAnthony wrote: »

Most solicitors will also be able to give you ancillary advice around whether or not going forward is advisable. I wouldn't be relying on the advice of randomers on the internet, especially in relation to employment law.

MarkAnthony wrote: »

The only thing worse than a barrack room lawyer is one with an agenda and bloody hell are there a few of them on boards.

MarkAnthony wrote: »

It's more complicated than simple contract law

Seek the services of a solicitor who specialises in employment law.

nuac

Mod

Seeking legal advice.

GM228 and Mark Anthony have dealt well with this

Thread closed