Am I a loser dad?

LegacyUser

Hi everyone,
This is something that's been a major issue for some time now.

Myself and my ex broke up before our daughter was born. At the time of learning of the pregnancy I was setting up my own business under the new enterprise grant (social welfare for 2 years to assist in you setting your business). It was recession time, job losses, no opportunities etc. I felt my best bet was to continue to receive the enterprise grant and build up my business and hopefully have a profitable business up and running. Being unqualified the alternative was getting a minimum wage job.

Fast forward 5 years and I have grown my business to employ 4 people including myself. We're not earning loads by any means, but we're slowly but surely getting better.

My ex has been in college throughout these years (living with parents).

I give what I can to support her and my daughter. I cover creche fees (500/month after subsidy), give a small amount of cash each month and I also mind my daughter (with whom I have a great relationship) 2-3 nights and a day at the weekend, based around my ex's schedule. Being my own boss I can leave when I want to, even though leaving early all the time has definitely impacted on the progression of my business - I often catch up on work in the evenings and the weekends etc.

I'm also always available at short notice and unless I physically can't, I have always been there when asked.

I spend very little on myself, drive an old beat up car, etc. I meet friends for a few drinks (literally a few, not going on benders) once a week - I feel that's the only thing saving me from going mad.

My ex considers me a loser because I can't give more and can't yet afford my own place (I share an apartment). It's a constant issue between us. I am embarrassed by my situation - I should be able to provide a lot more, but I feel I have worked hard, am working hard, and am making good progress and am progressively bettering my situation. I also feel I made the right decision to go the route I have gone. She knows how much I earn and I've broken it all down for her. Still I'm constantly berated for how things are, and it always comes back to money.

I wanted to ask for some objective opinions - am I as much of a loser she makes me out to be? Is what I'm giving pathetic? I don't feel I am but maybe I'm wrong. It's gone on for so long now that I don't know what to think anymore.

Thanks

DeltaWhite

No. You are certainly not in my eyes.


Sounds a bit like sour grapes to me. You have a place to live, a car (so what if it's old!) your own business, you pay for your daughter to go to creche, you are a father to her at every opportunity. What makes you a loser? None of the above. How you have described her makes her sound a bit jealous. You may just have to thicken your skin at her put downs. Or better yet, dont tell her your financial situation, as far as I am concerned you are paying your way so why should she get to know your personal situation. What more could she possibly want.

Creche fees are huge, I cant understand why she doesn't think it's enough. Does she have a part-time job?

baby and crumble

BrokeDad wrote: »

My ex has been in college throughout these years (living with parents).

Well she's not exactly flying high now is she? :rolleyes:

Leave her off, OP. You're doing amazingly well. I looked into starting my own business during the bad times and the thoughts of it terrified me, and I was in no way going to go for it. You did. That takes a lot of courage, skills, intelligence and determination. None of which are qualities of a "loser" Dad.

ennis81

You are not a loser, you seem to be doing a great job
The maximum a judge in family court would ask you to pay per week is €75.
You are paying €500 per month plus some cash, I'm sure you help with santy, birthday etc too
Your ex is being too hard on you, it is up to her to financially support your daughter aswell
Well done for building up your business I hope things keep getting better
And having a good relationship with your daughter is just as important as financial support, some men (and women) don't give a toss about their kids, you sound like a great daddy doing his best

silverharp

You have a great story man, while I have a good job I would never have the balls to set up on my own, so I would certainly "envy" you (in a good way) for your ability to create something from scratch. She is being a d1ck for trying to embarrass you and as you are not together its not even any of her business. For the sake of your business you should stop this "on call" thing , stick to your agreed schedule. It sounds like she just wants to manipulate you into being her ATM machine.
I assume you are in your twenties , keep putting in the effort and you should get your payback in the future

Rubberchikken

anyone with any sense could see that you are, based on your post, trying to do your best and slowly achieving success.
the important thing in all of that that i got was that you have a great relationship with your child. she sees her parents trying to better themselves and that's a fantastic impression to give her.

is the loser regerence brought up regularly? if it has, then is there any way you could find out from her why she thinks this? a lot of bitterness comes from jealousy and while inexcusable, does happen.

bee06

Having money doesn't make you a good Dad. Spending quality time with your daughter, loving her, being there for her. That's what matters. When she grows up she's not going to remember what kind of car you drove or where you lived. She'll remember all the things money can't buy.

LegacyUser

Thanks for the replies everyone, it makes me feel better to hear other people's view on this.

She has a lot of resentment for me because my living situation is easier than hers, but I don't have any way to fix that without earning more money, which I'm working on but it just takes time. It's taken me a while to build up what you'd call a livable wage, but in her eyes it's too little too late. However I've always covered creche fees and always given my time and flexibility where I can't give money.

Lately I've been able to give a bit more cash each month, but still the "loser/waster" attitude is brought up constantly, any issue or discussion comes back to money and comes back to how pitiful my situation is to be sharing an apartment etc, how little I provide and so on.

She's studying in a very difficult course which will give her a high paying job when finished - I believe she feels that because of the amount of work she puts in (which is a lot) and that she will eventually have a very good job, she has the right to pass judgement on my situation. She'll be done in the next year earning her own money and everything will change - she'll be earning a lot more than me and so I'll probably be stuck with the "loser/waster" label because she'll be a great success and I'll be the guy who couldn't afford to "rescue" her when she was broke.

She wouldn't give any credit for the time I give to my daughter, she wouldn't see it as a positive, she'd simply see it as what's expected and therefore undeserved of any positive recognition.

This is doing my head in, I'm worn out and really starting to feel dead inside. It's good to know that not everyone thinks like her, thanks again for your replies.

groovyg

Forget about what your ex thinks she sounds bitter and jealous. Priority number 1 should be your daughter and daughter only. Have you guys a formal agreement in place regarding custody and maintenance of your daughter? If not it might be a good idea to get one and stick to it as its good for kids to have a routine rather than you picking her up whenever it suits your ex. Spending quality time with your daughter is far more important than spending loads of money on her. You are not a certainly not a loser, you set up a business during the recession and its grown to you employing four people. If that's not a success then I don't know what is.

KikiDee

OP you're a great dad. Anyone can throw money at their kids and think they're the bee all and end all but you actually spend time with and support your kid. I can tell you from personal experience, this means more to your kid than anything else.

Tbh, your ex seems a bit of a nightmare and maybe perhaps you're too accommodating to her schedule?

Keep doing what you can OP, it's all anyone can do. Your kid will thank you for it in years to come, trust me.

baby and crumble

BrokeDad wrote: »

She has a lot of resentment for me because my living situation is easier than hers, but I don't have any way to fix that without earning more money, which I'm working on but it just takes time. It's taken me a while to build up what you'd call a livable wage, but in her eyes it's too little too late. However I've always covered creche fees and always given my time and flexibility where I can't give money.

BrokeDad wrote: »

she'll be earning a lot more than me and so I'll probably be stuck with the "loser/waster" label because she'll be a great success and I'll be the guy who couldn't afford to "rescue" her when she was broke.

Not to be blunt here, but it's not your responsibility to "rescue" her. Your responsibility is to ensure your daughter has what she needs, which you are doing to the absolute best of your ability. Your ex's living situation is none of your concern, so long as your child has a roof over her head, a warm bed and is fed and clothed and loved by you.

She sounds like a total wagon, OP. You're supporting her above and beyond what you need to, to enable her to also provide for your child together. By covering creche fees and being so flexible, she's now in a position to get this high and mighty job (she might be surprised however. Final year students always have an inflated idea of how easy it will be to get a job i their field post graduation and indeed how much their salary will be).

groovyg

Op your ex sounds very materialistic, its not all about money. Being there for your kid is a hell of a lot more important than throwing money at them. You should have a set amount you give each month and leave it at that. Anything extra put in a savings account.
In my work I have to be in the office from 9-5 if I want to leave early, or come in late I have to ok it with my boss, if you weren't working for yourself and working in a job that required you to be in an office from 9-5 you wouldn't be able to be so flexible in terms of picking up your daughter when ever it suited your ex. I think you need to look at the arrangement you have in place and maybe pull back from being so accommodating to your ex as she doesn't seem to appreciate it.

Sleepy

Jesus Christ you're tough on yourself OP.

If I'm reading your posts correctly, you have the child 3 to 4 nights a week, cover all creche fees and give your ex cash on top of that?! TBH, once you're minding your child 3/4 nights a week and covering the costs of childcare during those days, your job is done. You're carrying quite a lot of your ex's share of the burden of parenthood on top of your own.

As baby and crumble says, it's highly likely that she'll be in for a shock when she finishes college. Graduates don't simply stroll into paid jobs these days and those that do get work, aren't particularly well paid. She clearly has notions about herself and a massive sense of entitlement and tbh, given the way she's carrying on, part of me feels like she should be the sort to have to deal with a "deadbeat dad" rather than a good father.

You pull your weight as a father, let her pull hers as a mother. If she can't manage that, seek sole custody.

BUBBLES1978

wow this just angers me so so so much, you sound like a great dad and by no means a loser

you are providing above and beyond for your child, you are also trying to grow as a person and have a successful business.

you are not there to provide money for the mother of the child. she can do that herself. its not your problem what her living situation is YOU OWE HER NOTHING.

i am a single parent myself for 14 years and if i was getting a third of what she was getting i would be happy and i would also be happy for you that you are succeeding in your business and able to give so much time to your little girl

sour grapes is right

i wish you the best of luck...

m'lady

Women like this boil my p*ss, as they can give us a bad name.

OP your paying €500 (crèche expenses) plus whatever cash you give her- that's a fair bit of maintenance your paying for your daughter. I wonder does she match that €500 plus?
You also spend a lot of time with your daughter, which is the right way, does she realise if she didn't have you on hand how more difficult her life would be?

As previous posters have said, forget what this wagon thinks of you, but ensure to get the legalities sorted out as a matter of urgency. I hope that you have a 'paper trail' of all the money you have paid?

CdeC

Next time she tell you you're a loser then ask her for 250 for half the creche fees. She lives at home, going to college and she is giving out that you are in a house share??
She sounds half-mad tbh.
She's your ex. She has no rights to call you any names or make any judgements.
In fact you should arrange that you speak to her as little as possible. Everyone is trying to do their best in this world and you do not need a dissenting little voice putting you down all the time.

Focus on your business, your daughter and maybe looking for another partner, one that will support you.

Best of luck OP

DEFTLEFTHAND

You founded your own business in a recession.

You employ four people.

You financially support your child and are a presence in her life.


So no you're not a loser, we need more people like you in this country. Hard working enterprising types.

uck51js9zml2yt

Congrats on the business.
It's quiet an achievement to build it up in a short time and employ 4 people.

She thinks you should be earning more? So what!
4 families are being looked after.
Just a word of advice. Don't take you're eye off the business. It's easy for things to be missed if your not there

FortySeven

Dead beat dad?

Not a notion. Don't even entertain it. You sound like a very responsible father. Take pride in what you are doing. You are going above and beyond.

You are not a cash cow. I would be looking for a court to decide maintenance.

kylith

Next time she gives you stick for living in a house share remind her that you could afford your own place if you stopped paying all the creche fees.

LegacyUser

Thanks so much again for all the replies. Logically I can see the sense in what everyone is saying, but emotionally I still can't get out of that 'loser' view of myself - I think my self esteem is just shot at this stage.

Is ~€650 a month really seen as okay as regards coparenting contributions? I would have thought it'd be on the low end, but I've never spoken to anyone in my situation to compare.

I'm not going to pull back in any case - I'm going to remain flexible and accommodating because the priority for my daughter's sake is to make sure her mum gets through college. I don't want to go in to details but she will be guaranteed a very well paid job at the end, so in terms of my daughter's future security, her mum getting there is more important than anything else right now and I'll do what I can to make sure that happens.

Thanks again

sadie1502

Christ on a bike. I don't get one red cent from my loser ex, and he skypes once a month to his son after I send him numerous messages. Hasn't seen him in two years besides Skype and I paid for that trip for my son and his father and my dad. He doesn't contribute a penny and hasn't done in four years. I work full time so it's all on my shoulders. Now that Is what you call a loser dad. You most certainly are not a loser dad.

glued

OP I think you should probably talk to a professional about your issues. You're incredibly harsh and negative on yourself. Stop being so tough on yourself and stop trying to satisfy the needs of an ex who sounds like an absolutely awful woman.

You're a great dad. Your daughter has an incredibly caring father. Spend some more money on yourself too. Ensure your daughter is well looked after but your ex should pay her fair share too.

December2012

Anybody looking after you OP?

Anyone to give you reassurance? If not, talk to somebody about your self esteem and your confidence. I'm sure you'll thrive even more.

Fwiw a failed relationship doesn't make you a failure.

Sapphire

It's worth remembering that when your ex graduates, and goes into the job market, she'll very likely to be expected to put in a lot of hours to establish herself. She'll be competing with non-parents who can stay at the drop of a hat to meet a tough deadline on a probationary period and for several years after until she becomes more experienced in the workplace.

So you being able to bring flexibility in your job to the table is something that she will be bloody glad of when school/ creche ring because your child has a temperature, or for that eye /dentist appointment.

You are far from a loser dad.

Jenneke87

You, OP, are not a loser. Not just....not! You clearly are a devoted, hardworking father who does everything in his power to provide his little girl with a good life. Your ex sounds like she needs a good dose of reality: how dare she say you're the loser when you've been nothing but helpful. She wouldn't have been able to go to college so easily if she didn't have you to help her out both financially and time wise. On top of that, you build a business from the ground, expended enough that you needed to hire three other people. That is a major achievement you should be f*cking proud of! If her comments are having such a bad affect on you then find something or someone to help you cope with that, you just can't afford to los sight of all the good things you've done and are. You're not a loser dad, you're a hero dad.

Saipanne

BrokeDad wrote: »

Hi everyone,
This is something that's been a major issue for some time now.

Myself and my ex broke up before our daughter was born. At the time of learning of the pregnancy I was setting up my own business under the new enterprise grant (social welfare for 2 years to assist in you setting your business). It was recession time, job losses, no opportunities etc. I felt my best bet was to continue to receive the enterprise grant and build up my business and hopefully have a profitable business up and running. Being unqualified the alternative was getting a minimum wage job.

Fast forward 5 years and I have grown my business to employ 4 people including myself. We're not earning loads by any means, but we're slowly but surely getting better.

My ex has been in college throughout these years (living with parents).

I give what I can to support her and my daughter. I cover creche fees (500/month after subsidy), give a small amount of cash each month and I also mind my daughter (with whom I have a great relationship) 2-3 nights and a day at the weekend, based around my ex's schedule. Being my own boss I can leave when I want to, even though leaving early all the time has definitely impacted on the progression of my business - I often catch up on work in the evenings and the weekends etc.

I'm also always available at short notice and unless I physically can't, I have always been there when asked.

I spend very little on myself, drive an old beat up car, etc. I meet friends for a few drinks (literally a few, not going on benders) once a week - I feel that's the only thing saving me from going mad.

My ex considers me a loser because I can't give more and can't yet afford my own place (I share an apartment). It's a constant issue between us. I am embarrassed by my situation - I should be able to provide a lot more, but I feel I have worked hard, am working hard, and am making good progress and am progressively bettering my situation. I also feel I made the right decision to go the route I have gone. She knows how much I earn and I've broken it all down for her. Still I'm constantly berated for how things are, and it always comes back to money.

I wanted to ask for some objective opinions - am I as much of a loser she makes me out to be? Is what I'm giving pathetic? I don't feel I am but maybe I'm wrong. It's gone on for so long now that I don't know what to think anymore.

Thanks

I'm very impressed with your accomplishments. You are there for your kid. You are certainly no loser.

LostTazMan

I would strongly suggest that you seek professional help on a number of fronts.

Legally I hope you have a record of money and time spent on your daughter as well as guardianship. If everything goes sour this will help you to remain part of her life, regardless of your exes wishes.

Personally I think that your ex is, for whatever reason, looking to ruin your happiness regardless of the consequences to anyone. Five families depend on you, those of your employees and you and your daughter. While I think it is great that you are willing to put everything on the line to ensure your daughters happiness you need to consider if your ex can meet all of her needs, emotional and physical as well as financial in the event that she does break you. It would surprise me if she could do as well as you have proven that you do.

In my opinion you are not a looser, rather you are a good dad going far beyond the minimum to provide for your daughter.

LTM

groovyg

BrokeDad wrote: »

Is €650 a month really seen as okay as regards coparenting contributions? I would have thought it'd be on the low end, but I've never spoken to anyone in my situation to compare.
I'm not going to pull back in any case - I'm going to remain flexible and accommodating because the priority for my daughter's sake is to make sure her mum gets through college. I don't want to go in to details but she will be guaranteed a very well paid job at the end, so in terms of my daughter's future security, her mum getting there is more important than anything else right now and I'll do what I can to make sure that happens.

Op the best person to talk to about maintenance would be a solicitor and find out what you should be paying. It sounds like the amount you are paying was agreed between the two of you.

Also have you thought about your future and what you want, do you want to stay renting forever or do you hope to own your place some day. Its all good and well supporting your ex but she doesn't seem to appreciate it if she's calling you a loser all the time. Even if she's studying to be an auditor/ pharmacist/ doctor which are well paid jobs she could be working very long hours when she graduates and that means you'll end up having to look after your daughter, hence why a more formal custody agreement should be in place between the two of you.

LegacyUser

In no way are you a loser OP. Far from it. Actually very far from it.

I graduated with a first class degree, have a masters, have several diplomas and have worked hard to get into a good job and in no way, absolutely no way, could I ever set up my own business, much less run it so well it would end up employing people.

The country is coming out of a very rough time. I was unemployed, I worked Fas gigs and I really feel so much gratitude to be working every day now. Those people you currently employ are so much better off because you backed yourself. You are a success. You also have the freedom that so many people working for someone else envy, the freedom to structure your life. Most of us don't ever get that, not really. You are a success.

It seems you feel a bit bad about your lack of qualifications, take it from someone who has loads, they don't matter anywhere near as much as the real hands on experience you are getting every day. If you don't believe me there's always courses you can do to make yourself more qualified.

I suspect your ex is a small bit bitter about how things turned out for her, she can't fully enjoy the college experience, has to care for a child (who I'm sure she loves), probably feels she can't give out to her parents so you're the person she can express her unhappiness to. Doesn't make it right but she probably compares her life to the supposedly carefree ones she sees others living and feels she's missing out. Just because she says hurtful things doesn't make them true.

Someone earlier on said they almost envy you, I wouldn't use the word envy, I admire you. You've taken a hard situation and made it work. Don't take your eye off the ball just because someone is criticising you, all you can ever hope to be is the best version of yourself.

Good luck, and well done OP.

kirving

Well done on setting up your own business, which is clearly a successful one if you're employing four people. Far more than she has done to date it should be noted.

You're doing more than your fair share I think, which is allowing her go to college. She might think she'll be on great money out of college, but let her see the reality of paying rent, creche, bills, car, etc. and no matter how much she earn, reality will hit home very very quickly.

Keep your head up, you're doing a great job, and have already achieved far more than most people ever will.

Leogirl

You sound like a great father+very fair too. If my ex would spend half that time with our child I'd be delighted. I would say you're a great role model+ devoted dad.

nikkibikki

Your daughter is very lucky to have such a devoted and loving Dad as yourself OP. Extremely lucky. You need to believe that. I really think you need to see someone about your self esteem issues, I've had to do that in the past. Don't speak to your ex about anything but the practicalities of rearing your daughter. Ignore everything else she says, cut her off mid sentence. It's not your responsibility to "rescue" her or provide for her education, you are not her partner. Your responsibility is to your child and you are more than covering that responsibility.

pc7

You are doing what a parent should, all they can. Doesn't matter if you are the mom or dad. Sadly from family experience dads are treated poorly in the court systems in terms of access etc. If your current arrangement is just a verbal agreement with your ex Id stop paying cash and lodge it to a bank account to have a record, things can turn very fast in this type of set up. (family member was paying cash and mother denied it!) when he went to court for access. He'd been paying €150 a week, extra at school/Xmas and holiday time. But it was his word against her, she's a very convincing victim! I'd also firm up access agreement, again when she met a new man it didn't suit her to have family member as dad and tried to get new man called dad and erase the child's real dad. It's been a nightmare. They'd had this agreement in place for years but not legally. Now he rarely sees child even though he's in court for access every few months, judge says mother should encourage access all she has done is turn child against father.
Please protect yourself and your daughter, very best of luck for the future.

Lady is a tramp

Would you consider mediation to formalise access and maintenance? I'd avoid courts if at all possible, much better if you can draw up an arrangement with a mediator.

As far as I remember from the family courts, my solicitor advised that the max maintenance awarded was around €600 a month, but judges very rarely actually went that high. So it definitely sounds like you're paying over the odds.

silverharp

getting everything as formally agreed as possible seems like a good idea, your daughter's mother sounds like the type that once she is working and possibly meets someone that she would squeeze you out with nothing to show for it and no thanks.

J_E

BrokeDad wrote: »

Thanks for the replies everyone, it makes me feel better to hear other people's view on this.

She has a lot of resentment for me because my living situation is easier than hers, but I don't have any way to fix that without earning more money, which I'm working on but it just takes time. It's taken me a while to build up what you'd call a livable wage, but in her eyes it's too little too late. However I've always covered creche fees and always given my time and flexibility where I can't give money.

Lately I've been able to give a bit more cash each month, but still the "loser/waster" attitude is brought up constantly, any issue or discussion comes back to money and comes back to how pitiful my situation is to be sharing an apartment etc, how little I provide and so on.

She's studying in a very difficult course which will give her a high paying job when finished - I believe she feels that because of the amount of work she puts in (which is a lot) and that she will eventually have a very good job, she has the right to pass judgement on my situation.

Just no! She has no right to be placing expectations on you. That's not your responsibility and do not be bullied into funding her even more! You are there to provide for your child, not furnish your ex beyond what is necessary. She is a grown-up too and can make decisions for herself. This is really sad to read - you are doing nothing wrong at all. She might want to take a hard look at herself with the way she is speaking to you, given the immense contributions you are making.

I would agree with the poster above, make this a legal payment so that you are not continually made guilty to give more. If you are making your own life miserable then it's a sign you are probably giving too much.

LegacyUser

OP, she sounds like a piece of work
But if her course will land her in such a high paying job (and by the way, no course will give graduate that high pay....40k tops I'd imagine, and the reality of trying to fend for herself in Dublin on that wage with a kid will crash in then....), she's in for a shocker.Highly paid jobs come with responsibility and more importantly, frequently come wih long hours, espeically to start out with.She will certainly learn to appreciate your time and flexibility when her circumstances change.And I say this as the working mum of two small kids.Creche fees are more than generous, but knowing my kids cam be taken care of guilt free if i meed it is worth it's weight in gold.
You are not a loser.Hold your head up high, you're doing a great job, more than she deserves.