Getting frustrated with dating scene

LegacyUser

This is a bit of a rant more than looking for advice, but I hope some can relate.

So I'm basically in this horrible position where I am not able to find guys to date. I've tried every avenue and I'm getting nowhere. Most of the problems stem from my own personal preferences, but I can't exactly change those!

Grindr is fine if you're looking for a hook up, but not a meaningful relationship. Usually if I try to have a somewhat normal conversation it just fades out with them just not replying at all. Tinder has the best prospects for proper dates. Again, conversations last for a few sentences and then no reply. Or you get a match and there is no interest after that! Then you have gay bars. I've been a few times but it's the last place I want to be on a night out. I don't like the scene and have had uncomfortable experiences in clubs in the past.

I guess my biggest problem is that I have a certain type of guy I like (which everyone does!), and unfortunately it's not the camp variety. I have a few gay friends who I would go to bars with, but they're just that - friends. I've no interest in dating the more effeminate guys and in my experience the majority (I would honestly say 90%) are more flamboyant that I would prefer. Now I have been very lucky before where I found a guy in the exact same position as me and we dated for a while but it didn't work out in the end for various reasons.

I hate where I am at the moment because the pool I have to choose from is very limited. I'm a bit of a maths head so I did some calculations! I've been a bit conservative about figures just to be optimistic!

4.5 million people in Ireland.
I'm living in Dublin so really there's 1.27 million people to "choose" from.
50% male, that's 636,000.
In the age bracket of 25-35 (I think 5 years each side of my age is a fair age range) that's 109,000.
Ideally I'd like to date an Irish guy (I've dated English and Italian guys in the past, there's just not the same banter!), down to 95,000.
Gay guys - this is the biggest whittling down! It's generally assumed 5% define themselves as gay, so that's 4,700.
My personal preference of masculine guys. I've been optimistic and said 20%! 951.
Single. At a guess I said 50%? 475.
Guys that are out and dating (lots of guys in the closet and just after NSA) 80% (may be on the high side) - 380.
And the final one, attractiveness. I'm going to be very conservative about this figure. I'm going to say 1 in 5 guys (within the criteria above) are attractive to me, but I know this is not really the case!

That leaves me with 76 guys. 76! And that's not taking account of whether they are interested in me! I know it's a pointless exercise, but I was getting so frustrated at how limited my options were that I had to put the figures to it.

I don't think there's much I can realistically do except stick at it, or somehow be attracted to more guys!

Rant over!

Ten of Swords

billyblogger wrote: »

My personal preference of masculine guys. I've been optimistic and said 20%

You consider approximately 80% of gay guys to be non masculine?

billyblogger wrote: »

And the final one, attractiveness. I'm going to be very conservative about this figure. I'm going to say 1 in 5 guys (within the criteria above) are attractive to me

20% of the masculine and available gay guys would be attractive enough to be interested in dating?















No, I can't work out why you're still single, it's a complete mystery to me.

J_E

If you want brutal honesty, if I talked to someone with an attitude like that I'd be put off too. It tends to project even if you are not explicitly stating your preferences. You claim you have tried every avenue, yet you're too good for gay bars, too good for non-macho non-perfect men - perhaps we should put some red carpet and barriers around you so your admirers can look, not touch?

Honestly, I think you have some unrealistic standards and a bad mindset towards dating. Be more open minded and stop making statistics of it, and you never know what might come your way. You sound insecure... don't be.

baby and crumble

I always find it hilarious when people come here with this issue, because of all my experience on the scene and in the community (and I see those as two very distinctly different things) "camp" men are genuinely in the minority, like butch women, and yet the overwhelming impression out there is that butch women and camp men are all the scene has to offer. What you will see more of is guys and women who are a little bit more relaxed around gender roles.

My advice to you is not to try and change your type- there's nothing wrong with finding or not finding certain traits physically attractive- but do try and see past those traits, even just to find friends who can then introduce you to other people. And bear in mind that most likely you are identifying the more "obvious" gay folks in your assessments. I guarantee that a load of people you see in coffee shops, libraries, parks, at the cinema, etc are gay. They are just in some ways "lucky" enough not to be naturally gender variant. I say this as one of those icky butch women that lots of lesbians hate and think ruins everyones impressions of lesbians in general. I'm the one they hold up to say "I like women, but not THOSE kind of women..." Trust me, OP, it's not always fun being on the other side of it.

LegacyUser

Ten of Swords wrote: »

You consider approximately 80% of gay guys to be non masculine?

20% of the masculine and available gay guys would be attractive enough to be interested in dating?

No, I can't work out why you're still single, it's a complete mystery to me.

I'm sorry, but that is truthfully from my own experience. I am always trying to be optimistic but from being on the dating scene I would say 4 out of 5 guys I have spoken to or dated would fall into the more effeminate category.

And I am also being honest in saying 20% of guys are attractive to me. I've no reason to have high standards, I am ashamedly desperate for a date with a guy, but why would I, or anyone for that matter, date someone that wasn't attractive to them? Personality is of course most important, but if there's no physical attraction, what's the point.

I've gone on a few dates where I wasn't instantly attracted to the guy and hoped that some attraction would develop over time, but it never did. I've also been in the embarrassing situation where I couldn't "perform" after a date.

J_E wrote: »

If you want brutal honesty, if I talked to someone with an attitude like that I'd be put off too. It tends to project even if you are not explicitly stating your preferences. You claim you have tried every avenue, yet you're too good for gay bars, too good for non-macho non-perfect men - perhaps we should put some red carpet and barriers around you so your admirers can look, not touch?

Honestly, I think you have some unrealistic standards and a bad mindset towards dating. Be more open minded and stop making statistics of it, and you never know what might come your way. You sound insecure... don't be.

I didn't say I was too good for gay bars, or too good for camp guys. You are twisting my words. Is it a crime not to like gay bars? Is it a crime not be attracted to a certain type of person?

I don't believe I have unrealistic standards. If I didn't stick by them I would just be compromising my own beliefs. Do you judge women that are attracted to "macho" men? Of course not, but just because I am gay and I am attracted to "macho" men I am suddenly a villain. I've come across this attitude a lot on the dating scene where guys think I am attacking them personally when I say I am not attracted to camp guys.

baby and crumble wrote: »

I always find it hilarious when people come here with this issue, because of all my experience on the scene and in the community (and I see those as two very distinctly different things) "camp" men are genuinely in the minority, like butch women, and yet the overwhelming impression out there is that butch women and camp men are all the scene has to offer. What you will see more of is guys and women who are a little bit more relaxed around gender roles.

I really don't see this, but I'd like you to expand on this. My experience from the dating scene is that most guys fall into the effeminate category. I'm not saying they have to play sports or repair cars in their spare time, but just be one of "the lads". It's hard to give a proper description of it, but I can say this - the complete opposite of it is a guy whose closest friends are all women!

Again, I do have gay friends who would be on the camp side and I've obviously no problem with that, otherwise I wouldn't be their friend!

newacc2015

There is a far higher amount of gay guys in Dublin than what is normal for a city ie Dublin has all the country gays. Some said Dublin has more gays per capita than SF, which is probably

If you find 90% of gay guys are too flamboyant for you, I imagine you are probably thinking a third of straight guys are too flamboyant for you too? As most Irish gay guys are quite masculine.

IMO your obsession with only finding a masculine guys is projecting an insecurity you may have about being gay. If I dont know better, I would say you only want to date a masculine guy as he is the least gay person you can date. I think instead of finding a guy ticks that very narrow box you want to fill. Ask yourself why you only want to date a "masculine guy"? Are they more loyal, romantic etc? No a person is a person regardless of whatever they are hyper masculine or Jack from Will & Grace.

As you mature ( hopefully) this insecurity will subside and you will be willing to date people for who they are, rather than who think is 'compatible' with you. Im not going to lie and say that I havent dated mainly masculine guys. But if an amazing guy came along tomorrow, regardless of whether he was a total Mary or not. I would date him

ongarboy

OP, your defeatist attitude and ridiculous assessment of the make up of gay men in Dublin is the reason why you are single and possibly will be for a very long time if you don't alter your opinion.

As someone who has been a scene regular in Dublin for almost 15 years, I can categorically say that the majority of guys that go out are not camp. If you are in a gay bar and there are 50 guys and 45 of them are wearing clothes that are not flamboyant, they're chatting, drinking pints and having the craic with mates discussing football, Brexit, Game of Thrones, family or work issues whatever etc, they will not particularly stand out.

However if the 5 other guys are sipping Cosmopolitans, wearing pink rolled up skinny chinos, slip ons and string vests and singing and dancing to Madonna's Vogue in the middle of the floor, you'd probably say the bar was full of queens because that 10% minority very much stood out by their appearances/actions when the actual reality was very much different. Yet you will write off the vast majority of your potential talent pool because of your tunnel vision mindset. If you truly believe 80% of gay men are queens or overly camp, then as I stated above, it's your misinformed beliefs that is the cause of your frustration and not the reality

Barna77

OP, I hear you. Dating in Dublin is pretty much dire.

I saw the backlash coming though :pac:

newacc2015 wrote: »

IMO your obsession with only finding a masculine guys is projecting an insecurity you may have about being gay.

Why is that an insecurity? I personally don't like feminine / flamboyant guys. And that's it. I won't throw them into the Liffey but just not my thing.
I must be insecure too

Bonavox

billyblogger wrote: »

I'm a bit of a maths head so I did some calculations! I've been a bit conservative about figures just to be optimistic!

I'm not really sure you can just jot down irrelevant and inaccurate figures and call yourself a maths head ...

bmwguy

I am not gay and I didn't even realise this was the LGB forum until I started reading but I could do similar calculations about the perfect woman I would like to date and come up with 76 too. If I did this in front of people I would be laughed out the gate.

5'6", 28-32, brunette, irish, sallow/tanned skin, Brown eyes great smile, large breasts, cute bottom, sporty, particularly into rugby, feminine personality. That's actually my perfect girl if I had the machine out of weird science!

Wouldn't be too many of them around Dublin in reality. If I ignored everyone outside this I would never find anyone.

Tonight I have a date with a primary school teacher from west of Ireland about 5'2", mad into gaa, blue eyes, Irish skin, large breasts, cute bottom....see I got some of the things I want and I think she might be the one even though many criteria don't make it into my perfect range.

J_E

Barna77 wrote: »

OP, I hear you. Dating in Dublin is pretty much dire.

I saw the backlash coming though :pac:


Why is that an insecurity? I personally don't like feminine / flamboyant guys. And that's it. I won't throw them into the Liffey but just not my thing.
I must be insecure too

Writing groups of people off entirely for one surface-level trait is so close-minded. You could have gotten it entirely wrong based on a single impression. You should always approach a potential partner with an open mind - you'd expect at least the same in return. Everyone has their preferences but it shouldn't be some dead-set rule.

Annasopra

So you tried grindr, tinder, gay bars and you claim to have tried every avenue?

Off the top of my head I can think of dozens more avenues

Meetup.com groups
Sports clubs
Film clubs
Drop in centres
Volunteering
Music groups
Book clubs
Speed dating
Dining groups

Social Distorted

Long time lurker, responding cos I can totally see the OP's point of view and it reflects my own experience. Granted Dublin is the best place in the country to be gay, it's still really hard for a lot of us to meet the right kind of guy.

Seeing waaaayy more insecurity from the responders who'd jump down a guy's throat for being into masc guys only.

OP - PM me if you want to chat further.

J_E

Social Distorted wrote: »

Long time lurker, responding cos I can totally see the OP's point of view and it reflects my own experience. Granted Dublin is the best place in the country to be gay, it's still really hard for a lot of us to meet the right kind of guy.

Seeing waaaayy more insecurity from the responders who'd jump down a guy's throat for being into masc guys only.

OP - PM me if you want to chat further.

What is insecure about checking someone on their unrealistic expectations?

OP your post kinda reminded me of this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TwjvrButSok

It's ok to have preferences, and you don't have to date someone who you have zero interest in, but sometimes it may be worth adjusting the parameters a bit. You might end up becoming deeply attracted to someone you're initially uncertain of if you give them a chance (or you might not, but you won't know unless you try).

In general I think sometimes people tend to overestimate how many gay guys are overtly camp or flamboyant and for those that are it's not the be all and end all of their personality either; it's possible to love both dancing to cheesy pop music and playing/watching sports, or to enjoy drinking beer and also drinking fruity cocktails. The whole idea of only straight and/or masculine gay men liking certain things and only camp gay men liking certain other things is an archaic fallacy that is thankfully disappearing.

jack923

billyblogger wrote: »

This is a bit of a rant more than looking for advice, but I hope some can relate.

So I'm basically in this horrible position where I am not able to find guys to date. I've tried every avenue and I'm getting nowhere. Most of the problems stem from my own personal preferences, but I can't exactly change those!

Grindr is fine if you're looking for a hook up, but not a meaningful relationship. Usually if I try to have a somewhat normal conversation it just fades out with them just not replying at all. Tinder has the best prospects for proper dates. Again, conversations last for a few sentences and then no reply. Or you get a match and there is no interest after that! Then you have gay bars. I've been a few times but it's the last place I want to be on a night out. I don't like the scene and have had uncomfortable experiences in clubs in the past.

I guess my biggest problem is that I have a certain type of guy I like (which everyone does!), and unfortunately it's not the camp variety. I have a few gay friends who I would go to bars with, but they're just that - friends. I've no interest in dating the more effeminate guys and in my experience the majority (I would honestly say 90%) are more flamboyant that I would prefer. Now I have been very lucky before where I found a guy in the exact same position as me and we dated for a while but it didn't work out in the end for various reasons.

I hate where I am at the moment because the pool I have to choose from is very limited. I'm a bit of a maths head so I did some calculations! I've been a bit conservative about figures just to be optimistic!

4.5 million people in Ireland.
I'm living in Dublin so really there's 1.27 million people to "choose" from.
50% male, that's 636,000.
In the age bracket of 25-35 (I think 5 years each side of my age is a fair age range) that's 109,000.
Ideally I'd like to date an Irish guy (I've dated English and Italian guys in the past, there's just not the same banter!), down to 95,000.
Gay guys - this is the biggest whittling down! It's generally assumed 5% define themselves as gay, so that's 4,700.
My personal preference of masculine guys. I've been optimistic and said 20%! 951.
Single. At a guess I said 50%? 475.
Guys that are out and dating (lots of guys in the closet and just after NSA) 80% (may be on the high side) - 380.
And the final one, attractiveness. I'm going to be very conservative about this figure. I'm going to say 1 in 5 guys (within the criteria above) are attractive to me, but I know this is not really the case!

That leaves me with 76 guys. 76! And that's not taking account of whether they are interested in me! I know it's a pointless exercise, but I was getting so frustrated at how limited my options were that I had to put the figures to it.

I don't think there's much I can realistically do except stick at it, or somehow be attracted to more guys!

Rant over!

With an attitude like that you would want to hope your good looking yourself! 😂

We all have an ideal partner we would like. The personality and physique that we dream about. However the majority of people don't dwell on it too much.
Most people will tell you the love of their life turned out to be different to what they expected. Most people keep their minds open.
It's perfectly fine that certain characteristics are unattractive to you. Just don't get carried away with finding the perfect man that you miss opportunities with others who might not appear to fit your thin slice of perfection.

baby and crumble

Do you know I was just thinking about this, and actually types can change. They can. When I was younger, I fancied slim blonde girls, usually sporty. When I was 21 I met my now fiancée- short, brunette, big bum, almost the exact opposite of what I then fancied. Now, when I'm attracted to people other than my fiancée they tend to look very like her! It's like a Pavlovian response or something!!! Just saying, op. You might surprise yourself sometime if you leave yourself open to possibilities.