Idiots Guide to EV Charger Install

Bad_alibi

Looking to run cabling from my ESB panel to the location of my EV charger. I seen it mentioned a few times that this is a simple task but I haven't been able to figure out exactly what's needed.

Can someone in the know supply a shopping list of the cable and connections needed. I've an electrician friend who can wire it all up and certify it for me but he's never done an ev install before.


*********************************************************************
Said I'd add his to the start of the post to make it easier for the next guy searching.


So having done a bit of research and from PM's I've received it seems I need the following

3x6sq SWA cable for a 30a ev charger
42a RCBO at the fuse board
Blue 32a outdoor plug at the charger (optional) if I want to be able to remove the charger.

** I accept no responsibility for the above info and all this should be ran by a registered electrician and no work should be undertaken by Joe public themselves.

grogi

Bad_alibi wrote: »

Looking to run cabling from my ESB panel to the location of my EV charger. I seen it mentioned a few times that this is a simple task but I haven't been able to figure out exactly what's needed.

Can someone in the know supply a shopping list of the cable and connections needed. I've an electrician friend who can wire it all up and certify it for me but he's never done an ev install before.

I'm pretty sure the friend can do the research himself...

Bad_alibi

grogi wrote: »

I'm pretty sure the friend can do the research himself...

Thanks for the help really appreciate it, the Internet is a better place with you in it.

HappyScribbling

The EV connection needed is dependent on the type your EV.
The type of wiring from the consumer unit is dependent on the route the cable takes(e.g.external wall surface mount, under ground etc.) and must now be carried out by your electrician friend. it is illegal to do so unless currently registered as an electrical contractor... I'm a qualified electrician, but not currently registered, so it's even illegal ro me to do it! two words; House insurance....

Bad_alibi

HappyScribbling wrote: »

The EV connection needed is dependent on the type your EV.
The type of wiring from the consumer unit is dependent on the route the cable takes(e.g.external wall surface mount, under ground etc.) and must now be carried out by your electrician friend. it is illegal to do so unless currently registered as an electrical contractor... I'm a qualified electrician, but not currently registered, so it's even illegal ro me to do it! two words; House insurance....

It's an untethered 30a type 2 unit mounted externally approx 7m from the ESB panel. I've ducting (4"), buried in the ground which runs under the driveway. There's nothing else in this duct and I just need to pull the cable through it to the charger location. I was trying to find out what's needed at the panel side and what's needed at the charger side. I've been told to use 10sq cable before so that the wiring is future proofed and doesn't need to be changed down the line.

I've seen it mentioned a few times here that this is a simple job for an electrician no more difficult than wiring an outside socket. I wasn't aware that you needed a special type of registered electrician to wire one of these up.

grogi

Bad_alibi wrote: »

It's an untethered 30a type 2 unit mounted externally approx 7m from the ESB panel. I've ducting (4"), buried in the ground which runs under the driveway. There's nothing else in this duct and I just need to pull the cable through it to the charger location. I was trying to find out what's needed at the panel side and what's needed at the charger side. I've been told to use 10sq cable before so that the wiring is future proofed and doesn't need to be changed down the line.

You can safely carry ~20A with 2.5mm² cable, ~40A (~9KW) with 6mm². 10mm² is IMHO an overkill, with ~55A (~12KW).

What power does ESB supply at your place?

I've seen it mentioned a few times here that this is a simple job for an electrician no more difficult than wiring an outside socket. I wasn't aware that you needed a special type of registered electrician to wire one of these up.

Hence my comment before... You are not allowed to make any wiring, inside or outside, if you're not registered. Thank all the cowboys before...

gctest50

Use 10 sq

heliguyheliguy

gctest50 wrote: »

Use 10 sq

Why?

Bad_alibi

10sq was mentioned before but from browsing around a few threads it's seems to suggest 3x6sq SWA with a 42a RCOB will do the job for a 30a ev charger.

Bad_alibi

6sq - €2/m
10sq - €3.50/m

RCBO - €25/30

Outdoor blue socket (optional) €5/6

That's from taking to the local wholesaler, does that seem about right.

ted1

heliguyheliguy wrote: »

Why?

Future proofing, you may want to charge 2 vehicles or fast charging may increase

grogi

ted1 wrote: »

Future proofing, you may want to charge 2 vehicles or fast charging may increase

Yet the esb connection will rather not...

ted1

grogi wrote: »

Yet the esb connection will rather not...

You might add PV panels with battery storage.

air

I'd have to agree with Ted, for the marginal cost of the bigger cable it's worth using 10sq.
Where the charger is to be located alongside the meter cutout (typical in semi-ds) are installers typically running a cable from the main board or installing a little 2way board within the meter enclosure?

Bad_alibi

Having priced the two cables I'd have to agree for the minimal extra cost I'll be going with 10sq. It'd cost you a lot more in a few years time to get an electrican back out to replace it.

grogi

air wrote: »

I'd have to agree with Ted, for the marginal cost of the bigger cable it's worth using 10sq.

If the price difference is €10, then it is a no brainier, sure.

Nevertheless I always urge to carefully balance costs vs benefits

Bad_alibi

It's roughly €15 on 10m of cable so yeah it makes the decision by itself.

grogi

Bad_alibi wrote: »

The Internet is a better place with you in it.

You would be surprised about that

Bad_alibi wrote: »

It's roughly €15 on 10m of cable so yeah it makes the decision by itself.

Put in a conduit of some kind as well - so you can push another cable in future.

Bad_alibi

grogi wrote: »

Put in a conduit of some kind as well - so you can push another cable in future.

I have ducting running under the yard and everywhere else you can imagine. It's a new build and once it's finished I don't plan on digging anything back up.

cros13

I'd lean more toward installing 5x6 rather than 3x10.

The reason being that 6sqmm will have no issue handling 32A (or 40A)... but for faster home charging with larger battery EVs the chargers in the cars are going three phase not to high amperage single phase.

Also if you do solar PV with battery storage you are going to be limited by the size of inverter and the max discharge of the batteries (e.g. a Tesla Powerwall can only sustain 3.3kW out per 6.4kWh pack). If a feed in tariff is introduced the export limit on single phase is 6kW but on 3-phase it's 11kW.

One thing I definitely suggest in a new build is avoiding electric showers, go for power showers instead. Also if you are going single phase get the enhanced supply (16kVA). It costs nothing extra over a standard domestic 12kVA install but does cost a bit if you upgraded after the fact.

Your basic kit list for a standard Type 2 chargepoint:

40A Type C MCB (there is usually a D-Curve RCBO in the chargepoint)
3x6sqmm (or 5x6 for futureproofing) SWA
32A Type 2 Socketed Chargepoint (I prefer the Rolecs)

Bad_alibi

cros13 wrote: »

I'd lean more toward installing 5x6 rather than 3x10.

The reason being that 6sqmm will have no issue handling 32A (or 40A)... but for faster home charging with larger battery EVs the chargers in the cars are going three phase not to high amperage single phase.

Also if you do solar PV with battery storage you are going to be limited by the size of inverter and the max discharge of the batteries (e.g. a Tesla Powerwall can only sustain 3.3kW out per 6.4kWh pack). If a feed in tariff is introduced the export limit on single phase is 6kW but on 3-phase it's 11kW.

One thing I definitely suggest in a new build is avoiding electric showers, go for power showers instead. Also if you are going single phase get the enhanced supply (16kVA). It costs nothing extra over a standard domestic 12kVA install but does cost a bit if you upgraded after the fact.

Your basic kit list for a standard Type 2 chargepoint:

40A Type C MCB (there is usually a D-Curve RCBO in the chargepoint)
3x6sqmm (or 5x6 for futureproofing) SWA
32A Type 2 Socketed Chargepoint (I prefer the Rolecs)

Is there a 5x10sq cable.

I have 4kw of solar spec'd for the build.

I've only installed power showers as I'm aware of how wasteful the electric ones are.

I've looked into the enhanced 16kva supply, standard 12kva is €1900 to increase this to 16kva is an extra €700ish & an increased standing charge. I priced 3 phase which was only 150m away and the ESB looked for over €6k with no hope of moving them off that quote.

I can get a 30a charger master charger from a friend in the UK. What your opinion on these. He tells me there fairly common over there.

BoatMad

Hence my comment before... You are not allowed to make any wiring, inside or outside, if you're not registered. Thank all the cowboys before...

This is not the case in law, as a general rule, you cannot interfere with the distribution board or add new electrical facilities that require modification to the distribution , an ordinary householder can add or modify to existing spurs incising outside cabling

You should know this , if you are an electrical

it should be said that you can make make ANY installation in your house as long as its signed off by a RECI electrician, there is NO requirement that a registered electrician has to do the actual physical work. SO you can run the cables etc and just have a RECI make the modifications to the distribution boards ( if any )

cros13

Bad_alibi wrote: »

Is there a 5x10sq cable.

Yup... but I really wouldn't bother with 10sq. unless you reckon you might add two 32A chargepoints fed from the same cable.... in which case you will have to upgrade your supply or spend north of €25-30k on batteries and inverters AND carefully manage your power consumption.

Bad_alibi wrote: »

I have 4kw of solar spec'd for the build.

Get a solaredge SE6k inverter. It's the only one certified for the Irish market that can handle a decent storage setup. Work with LG Resu and Tesla Powerwall.

Bad_alibi wrote: »

I've looked into the enhanced 16kva supply, standard 12kva is €1900 to increase this to 16kva is an extra €700ish & an increased standing charge. I priced 3 phase which was only 150m away and the ESB looked for over €6k with no hope of moving them off that quote.

Hmm... last time I looked there was no increase in standing charge for 16kVa. The standing charge only increases with 20kVA and above.

Bad_alibi wrote: »

I can get a 30a charger master charger from a friend in the UK. What your opinion on these. He tells me there fairly common over there.

The Chargemasters are fine. I prefer the Rolecs as they are a bit more physically solid and sealed better.

KCross

@cros13 , I paid extra for the 16kva supply but I don't think they did anything different on my install to other houses. I'm sharing a transformer. What does the upgraded supply actually do in reality?

@bad_alibi , there is no difference in standing charge if you get the 16kva supply. The standing charge is clearly stated on every suppliers website and they dont specify whether it's 16kva or not.

Bad_alibi

It was the ESB engineer told me there was an increased supply while trying to talk me out of going with the 16kva supply. Not surprised to find out he was full of it, should have known based on the content of the conversation

@Kcross how much extra did they charge you for the 16kva install

Bad_alibi

http://www.solaredge.com/products/pv-inverter/single-phase#/

What sort of money do they go for.

Bad_alibi

I read in a thread here before but can't find it now where it was suggested to install a din rail rs485 modbus energy meter to monitor the energy consumption. Can one of these be fitted on the power supply to each of the heavy energy users like the ev charger, heat pump etc.

BoatMad

Bad_alibi wrote: »

I read in a thread here before but can't find it now where it was suggested to install a din rail rs485 modbus energy meter to monitor the energy consumption. Can one of these be fitted on the power supply to each of the heavy energy users like the ev charger, heat pump etc.

Yes , but why modbus ?

Bad_alibi

That's just what was suggested. Is there something else I should be looking at.

BoatMad

Bad_alibi wrote: »

That's just what was suggested. Is there something else I should be looking at.

There's a couple of PC.cloud based energy monitoring systems that can take multiple inputs from seperate current meters

The cheapest system is to buy local din rail mounting consumption meters and do the maths yourself

BoatMad

Bad_alibi wrote: »

I have ducting running under the yard and everywhere else you can imagine. It's a new build and once it's finished I don't plan on digging anything back up.

Make sure you pull neutrals to all light switches and make sure these is a phase available at light points , very useful for future home automation ( especially neutrals at light switches )