Competition Fees v Prizes

BigChap1759

Had an interesting discussion with my playing partners at the weekend.

Question is, do clubs keep a proportion of comp fees as profit and, if yes, how much is the norm?

Personally I think most if not all should be going out in prizes given that members are already paying their subs.

Would be interested in hearing experiences/views on this.

fred funk }{

Of course they make a profit. Do the maths. I don't have a problem with the club making a few bob as it's all for the greater good. Giving vouches/pro shop credit is another way to increase the margin and keeps the money flowing back into the club.

joxer1988

BigChap1759 wrote: »

Had an interesting discussion with my playing partners at the weekend.

Question is, do clubs keep a proportion of comp fees as profit and, if yes, how much is the norm?

Personally I think most if not all should be going out in prizes given that members are already paying their subs.

Would be interested in hearing experiences/views on this.

60% of the pot is paid out in prizes in our place.

charlieIRL

Slightly off topic, its there a minimum amount of players required to make an open day counting?

Senna

charlieIRL wrote: »

Slightly off topic, its there a minimum amount of players required to make an open day counting?

What do you mean counting?
Our club require minimum of 8 away players at an open to give out a visitors prize if that's what you mean.

PARlance

charlieIRL wrote: »

Slightly off topic, its there a minimum amount of players required to make an open day counting?

I think it's a min of 5 (Cat 1,2,3) players required to calculate a CSS for any comp. But not sure tbh.

If there are more than 20 home and 20 visitors then there will be a Home and Away CSS (unless the Away CSS is higher than the Home CSS, if so, just the Home is used)

Search "Congu Manual 2016-2018" if you want to look into it further.

Seve OB

BigChap1759 wrote: »

Had an interesting discussion with my playing partners at the weekend.

Question is, do clubs keep a proportion of comp fees as profit and, if yes, how much is the norm?

Personally I think most if not all should be going out in prizes given that members are already paying their subs.

Would be interested in hearing experiences/views on this.

Absolutely they should keep some, and a good chunk. Your sub goes towards the running of the club and course. Your comp fee goes towards the running of the comp and prizes. To run a comp, requires staff to man the pro shop, do the entrys, do the cards, do the results. Good bit of work goes in, in other words. work that has to be paid for, so yes it is appropriate they keep a good chunk of the entry fee.

I do know of some clubs which don't charge you entry fee though as you pay an "all inclusive sub".

BigChap1759

Seve OB wrote: »

Absolutely they should keep some, and a good chunk. Your sub goes towards the running of the club and course. Your comp fee goes towards the running of the comp and prizes. To run a comp, requires staff to man the pro shop, do the entrys, do the cards, do the results. Good bit of work goes in, in other words. work that has to be paid for, so yes it is appropriate they keep a good chunk of the entry fee.

I do know of some clubs which don't charge you entry fee though as you pay an "all inclusive sub".

Perhaps I'm being a little naive but at the weekend the pro shop will always need staffed and cards are done by a committee member, ie a volunteer so where is the cost incurred?

I'm not saying they shouldn't take a cut - just trying to work out what the norm or average is. What would u normally get for winning a weekend singles? Think ours is 40/50 onto gui card so is being spent in the club which I've no issue with

Seve OB

Not sure exactly..... been to long since I had a win of any kind I think they pay out top 3 plus class winners on average Saturday, Sunday and Wednesday. I don't think there is much difference between the prizes. They would make much more on a Saturday as busier time sheet. Ladies day Thursday, I presume they pay something similar, but they wouldn't have full sheet or anywhere near it.

You are right, the pro shop has to open at the weekend.... actually it has to open 7 days a week, so I guess part of what they make of the comp days goes to offset the cost of keeping the shop open all the time.

Cards are mostly done by the shop staff in our place from what I am aware of. There are a few staff who work there, all have to be paid. They give their time to the Juniors, and teams during the year for lessons etc, so that all has to be paid for. They also have to make a profit at the end of it. I know they sell stuff also, but lets face it, lots of people buy online, and in some of the bigger shops lots of the time. This is small shop so margins are tight.

Wichita Lineman

Without wanting to offend in any way - I'm kind of surprised by the naivety of the original question! Does the OP have any idea as to how much it costs to run a golf club per year? I'm a member in a small club and our subs alone would not keep us functioning.

The Rape of Lucretia

Without wishing to offend anyone either, I am surprised at the support for discrimination against competition golfers and tbe idea that they should contribute more to the costs of running a course than those who dont enter comps. Why should they ? Need more income ? Be fair to all members equally, and raise the sub so all pay their share.
Having said that, rarely entering comps, but playing a lot of casual golf, it suits me that the weem in week out competers are subsidising my golf. They only pay about 30% back in prizes, but some
does go to pay some drinks for teams matches.

The Rape of Lucretia

Without wishing to offend anyone either, I am surprised at the support for discrimination against competition golfers and tbe idea that they should contribute more to the costs of running a course than those who dont enter comps. Why should they ? Need more income ? Be fair to all members equally, and raise the sub so all pay their share.
Having said that, rarely entering comps, but playing a lot of casual golf, it suits me that the week in week out competers are subsidising my golf. They only pay about 30% back in prizes, but some does go to pay some drinks for teams matches.

fred funk }{

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Without wishing to offend anyone either, I am surprised at the support for discrimination against competition golfers and tbe idea that they should contribute more to the costs of running a course than those who dont enter comps. Why should they ? Need more income ? Be fair to all members equally, and raise the sub so all pay their share.
Having said that, rarely entering comps, but playing a lot of casual golf, it suits me that the week in week out competers are subsidising my golf. They only pay about 30% back in prizes, but some does go to pay some drinks for teams matches.

I'd imagine there's not that many who only play casual golf and no comps.

BigChap1759

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Without wishing to offend anyone either, I am surprised at the support for discrimination against competition golfers and tbe idea that they should contribute more to the costs of running a course than those who dont enter comps. Why should they ? Need more income ? Be fair to all members equally, and raise the sub so all pay their share.
Having said that, rarely entering comps, but playing a lot of casual golf, it suits me that the week in week out competers are subsidising my golf. They only pay about 30% back in prizes, but some does go to pay some drinks for teams matches.

Very good point well made

CarefulNow!

I was playing in a few 4 person team events this year, 3/4 full time sheet at least. Finished second once, first once..... got 20 pro shop credit for second, 25 I think it was for the win. It was shameful. I actually picked up more for a 2 than a prize. Oh and there was only a first and second prize. I'm all for supporting a club but that was gouging

Hoof Hearted2

Wichita Lineman wrote: »

Without wanting to offend in any way - I'm kind of surprised by the naivety of the original question! Does the OP have any idea as to how much it costs to run a golf club per year? I'm a member in a small club and our subs alone would not keep us functioning.

The OP's question may be naive and uninformed, but but to be fair so is the point you are trying to make.
Most golf clubs have two or more committees, one for the day to day running of the club usually known as the management committee and the other looks after all the comps, club and interclub, this committee is usually know as the men's club committee, and it's the men's club committee who look after the competition entry fees and distribution of prizes.
In theory neither committees funds should overlap or be reliant on the other, but all too often it happens that the men's club funds are used to subsidise the day to day running of the club, this should not be the case, and the fact that it happens doesn't make it an acceptable practice.

bobwilliams

CarefulNow! wrote:

I was playing in a few 4 person team events this year, 3/4 full time sheet at least. Finished second once, first once..... got 20 pro shop credit for second, 25 I think it was for the win. It was shameful. I actually picked up more for a 2 than a prize. Oh and there was only a first and second prize. I'm all for supporting a club but that was gouging

Agree...it's not all about the prizes but it should be fair.
For example a few weeks ago myself and a friend came 2nd and 3rd in an open.
The unnamed course game him a 3 ball voucher for 2nd and I got a 2 ball voucher for 3rd.
I thought that was shocking scabby...

Senna

A lot of debate over prizes around my club last year, so committee decided to set standard prices for all competitions for the year (excluding classics, big club comps and extra prizes for sponsored comps). €65 1st prize for any comp regardless of number who enter, €100 1st prize for sponsored comps which would be all comps during the summer months.
Far better system.

charlieIRL

PARlance wrote: »

I think it's a min of 5 (Cat 1,2,3) players required to calculate a CSS for any comp. But not sure tbh.

If there are more than 20 home and 20 visitors then there will be a Home and Away CSS (unless the Away CSS is higher than the Home CSS, if so, just the Home is used)

Search "Congu Manual 2016-2018" if you want to look into it further.

Cheers,
I've noticed the last few thursdays that the open day in our place, the numbers are getting smaller and smaller while the weekends are getting busier. Also there is now a 9 hole competition on a thursday as well. Unfortunately only 4 played the full 18 last week.

Jawgap

Income from comps is (I think) spelled out in the club's Treasurer's Report submitted to the AGM.

I don't mind the club making money on the comps as it goes back into the course and club.

I agree prizes can be a bit hit and miss - at a prize giving in a mate's place recently I was almost embarrassed at the prize myself and my partner got (gourmet hampers that we struggled to hold for the photo) for winning a fourball compared to what the lad who won a single strokes was getting (a wedge and a dozen new Callaway balls) - we were just lucky enough to win a comp with a generous sponsor.

I often wonder about golf clubs as prizes - probably (I suspect) like most people I give pretty careful consideration to what goes into my bag so it's unlikely that any club I might win, I'll use. If I was lucky enough to win, then in preference to a club I think I'd much prefer pro-shop credit.

Seve OB

Jawgap wrote: »

Income from comps is (I think) spelled out in the club's Treasurer's Report submitted to the AGM.

I don't mind the club making money on the comps as it goes back into the course and club.

I agree prizes can be a bit hit and miss - at a prize giving in a mate's place recently I was almost embarrassed at the prize myself and my partner got (gourmet hampers that we struggled to hold for the photo) for winning a fourball compared to what the lad who won a single strokes was getting (a wedge and a dozen new Callaway balls) - we were just lucky enough to win a comp with a generous sponsor.

I often wonder about golf clubs as prizes - probably (I suspect) like most people I give pretty careful consideration to what goes into my bag so it's unlikely that any club I might win, I'll use. If I was lucky enough to win, then in preference to a club I think I'd much prefer pro-shop credit.

A wedge and a dozen balls could be worth in the region of €180. I'd be very happy with that kind of prize value. All depends on the wedge and balls of course!

Jawgap

Seve OB wrote: »

A wedge and a dozen balls could be worth in the region of €180. I'd be very happy with that kind of prize value. All depends on the wedge and balls of course!

Absolutely, but I think I'd prefer the monetary equivalent to go spend in the pro-shop.

I find the more expensive the balls, the less likely I am to use them Last thing I want to see is €3 or €4 worth of golf ball go sailing in to waist high rough, even if it was a freebie

Seve OB

Jawgap wrote: »

Absolutely, but I think I'd prefer the monetary equivalent to go spend in the pro-shop.

I find the more expensive the balls, the less likely I am to use them Last thing I want to see is €3 or €4 worth of golf ball go sailing in to waist high rough, even if it was a freebie

more often than not, you can always swap them out

Russman

I think in my club its a 60:40 split - the club keeping 60%. It used to be the other way round, (actually it was 70:30 with the club keeping only 30%) but then there was the whole recession thing so it went from the club keeping 30%, to 40% and a few years ago to keeping 60%.

Its quite an emotive and controversial topic really. The regular competition players, who probably tend to be older, possibly retired etc would often enter 3 or 4 competitions per week, say at €6 per comp. That could easily be upwards of €1k per year in competition entries and with 60% of that going to the club, its a fair chunk of change. Yet there'd be murder if the subs went up by €600......I know its not as simple as that.

Corkblowin

I don't get hung up on the prizes and the amount of vouchers I let expire is shocking, but a few years ago I came second in a Junior Scratch (lost on count back). The sponsors gave the winner 2 weekend passes to the European Open in the K-club (shows how long ago!) and 2 nights B+B and a dinner in a hotel in Naas. I got a sleeveless wind-breaker.

HighLine

Usually 1 or 2 shots depending on how good your score was in relation to CSS. *grabs coat*