Wrongful speeding fine?

AMightyPanda

Okay before I start I will say if I didn't speed I wouldn't be in trouble, I totally agree with that, and would never argue on any other occasion. I'm gonna go ahead and ask my silly question anyway.

On Saturday driving from killiney to Leeson street I was in the slow lane about to pass stillorgan, this occurred at the usual speed can spot around the bend. I was doing now 55 with four in my car where the speed limit is 60. I came to the corner on the inside lane with a minivan on my right matching my speed and planning to take the next right turn at he set of lights I assume. On my inside was another car that had went into the bus lane early to turn left into stillorgan up the little side road. An ambulance came up behind me and gestures me out of the way accompanied by lights and noises. I didn't want to speed up to get out of the way because I was afraId there was a speed can there, the car to my right and left never moved and the ambulance was on my back number so I sped up to like 69/71kph went into the fast lane and as I was sowing at like 70kph I come around the apex of the corner after the ambulance had sped off and see a speed van, at the time I just sighed and looked around and it seemed all of the cars around me were doing the same speed so I'm wondering if I'm in trouble and if so do I have any leg to stand on as I wouldn't have sped up only to move out of the way of a flashing and sirening ambulance

Rothmans

AMightyPanda wrote: »

Okay before I start I will say if I didn't speed I wouldn't be in trouble, I totally agree with that, and would never argue on any other occasion. I'm gonna go ahead and ask my silly question anyway.

On Saturday driving from killiney to Leeson street I was in the slow lane about to pass stillorgan, this occurred at the usual speed can spot around the bend. I was doing now 55 with four in my car where the speed limit is 60. I came to the corner on the inside lane with a minivan on my right matching my speed and planning to take the next right turn at he set of lights I assume. On my inside was another car that had went into the bus lane early to turn left into stillorgan up the little side road. An ambulance came up behind me and gestures me out of the way accompanied by lights and noises. I didn't want to speed up to get out of the way because I was afraId there was a speed can there, the car to my right and left never moved and the ambulance was on my back number so I sped up to like 69/71kph went into the fast lane and as I was sowing at like 70kph I come around the apex of the corner after the ambulance had sped off and see a speed van, at the time I just sighed and looked around and it seemed all of the cars around me were doing the same speed so I'm wondering if I'm in trouble and if so do I have any leg to stand on as I wouldn't have sped up only to move out of the way of a flashing and sirening ambulance

If you get a fine you can appeal to the fixed charge processing office. There is a form you fill out requesting cancellation. I'd imagine your story would be easily verifiable given that the reg plate of the ambulance would have been captured by the gosafe van a few moments before your own.

endacl

Slow lane? Fast lane?

AMightyPanda

endacl wrote: »

Slow lane? Fast lane?

Moving from slow to fast then back to to slow whilst slowing down couldn't tell you which I was in when the picture was taken as I was focusing on cars around me

savagethegoat

you didn't even get the fine yet? too soon to worry

punisher5112

AMightyPanda wrote: »

Moving from slow to fast then back to to slow whilst slowing down couldn't tell you which I was in when the picture was taken as I was focusing on cars around me

Poster means there is no such thing as a slow lane or fast lane.

theteal

AMightyPanda wrote: »

Moving from slow to fast then back to to slow whilst slowing down couldn't tell you which I was in when the picture was taken as I was focusing on cars around me

Nope, what the poster is getting at is that technically(pedantically) there are no such things as a slow or fast lane

corglass

AMightyPanda wrote: »

Okay before I start I will say if I didn't speed I wouldn't be in trouble, I totally agree with that, and would never argue on any other occasion. I'm gonna go ahead and ask my silly question anyway.

On Saturday driving from killiney to Leeson street I was in the slow lane about to pass stillorgan, this occurred at the usual speed can spot around the bend. I was doing now 55 with four in my car where the speed limit is 60. I came to the corner on the inside lane with a minivan on my right matching my speed and planning to take the next right turn at he set of lights I assume. On my inside was another car that had went into the bus lane early to turn left into stillorgan up the little side road. An ambulance came up behind me and gestures me out of the way accompanied by lights and noises. I didn't want to speed up to get out of the way because I was afraId there was a speed can there, the car to my right and left never moved and the ambulance was on my back number so I sped up to like 69/71kph went into the fast lane and as I was sowing at like 70kph I come around the apex of the corner after the ambulance had sped off and see a speed van, at the time I just sighed and looked around and it seemed all of the cars around me were doing the same speed so I'm wondering if I'm in trouble and if so do I have any leg to stand on as I wouldn't have sped up only to move out of the way of a flashing and sirening ambulance

AMightyPanda wrote: »

endacl wrote: »

Slow lane? Fast lane?

Moving from slow to fast then back to to slow whilst slowing down couldn't tell you which I was in when the picture was taken as I was focusing on cars around me

There's no such thing as a fast or a slow lane. That's the point.


Anyway the circumstances of your speeding is irrelevant if you get caught which you won't know about for 10 days or so. No big deal anyway.

The go safe vans don't flash* when they nab you.


(*They flash in invisible infrared)

F1ngers

AMightyPanda wrote: »

An ambulance came up behind me and gestures me out of the way accompanied by lights and noises.

Going by your statement and this section from rules of the road:

Break a red light or speed to allow emergency service vehicles to pass you unless you’re directed to do so by the Gardaí or emergency service personnel.

http://www.rsa.ie/Documents/Learner%20Drivers/Rules_of_the_road.pdf

I would be quietly confident you were in the right if anything comes of it.

The_Honeybadger

If you get a fine I would certainly be appealing it. What have you got to lose. Person in the office might be in good humour and cancel the notice for you.

AMightyPanda

savagethegoat wrote: »

you didn't even get the fine yet? too soon to worry

I'm not worried I mean if it happens it happens the rules are don't speed and I broke em, I'm in acceptance there nothing I can do but I'm wondering if you's would think that I would have a good chance of appealing it by explaining it

AMightyPanda

mickeyk wrote: »

If you get a fine I would certainly be appealing it. What have you got to lose. Person in the office might be in good humour and cancel the notice for you.

Yeah but I'm fairly certain if you appeal it you get more points and a larger fine no? If not I've been misinformed! I've not got a record or previous history of being bold so I'm hoping I can keep this off the cards!

Del2005

F1ngers wrote: »

Going by your statement and this section from rules of the road:



http://www.rsa.ie/Documents/Learner%20Drivers/Rules_of_the_road.pdf

I would be quietly confident you were in the right if anything comes of it.

The ambulance didn't direct the OP to exceed the speed limit.

AMightyPanda

corglass wrote: »

There's no such thing as a fast or a slow lane. That's the point.


Anyway the circumstances of your speeding is irrelevant if you get caught which you won't know about for 10 days or so. No big deal anyway.

The go safe vans don't flash* when they nab you.

corglass wrote: »

There's no such thing as a fast or a slow lane. That's the point.


Anyway the circumstances of your speeding is irrelevant if you get caught which you won't know about for 10 days or so. No big deal anyway.

The go safe vans don't flash* when they nab you.


(*They flash in invisible infrared)

I'm not trying to be rude here but please don't try and be smart by picking out finicky things. I'm looking for actual advice.

1) I say slow lane fast lane rather than inside and outside lane as I lived in the states for a while until December. Just force of habit really, also surely the outside lane is the fast lane as the outside lane is designed for the traffic which is moving faster than that of the inside lane?

2) I never said flash? I realise they don't they only flash at night assuming that it's too dark to see your reg, most of the time they still don't. They're done by laser so even if you were speeding 500m away and slowed down they'd still catch you as the camera and speed measurement function are different.

AMightyPanda

Del2005 wrote: »

The ambulance didn't direct the OP to exceed the speed limit.

Surely he did by gesturing me out of the way when he could see I was not in a position to move either left or right safely without speeding up? That's my point here is I wouldn't have done what I did had the circumstance which occurred not taken place.

tuxy

AMightyPanda wrote: »

1) I say slow lane fast lane rather than inside and outside lane as I lived in the states for a while until December. Just force of habit really, also surely the outside lane is the fast lane as the outside lane is designed for the traffic which is moving faster than that of the inside lane?

2) I never said flash? I realise they don't they only flash at night assuming that it's too dark to see your reg, most of the time they still don't. They're done by laser so even if you were speeding 500m away and slowed down they'd still catch you as the camera and speed measurement function are different.

It's actually driving land and overtaking lane. People not understanding this is a big contributing factor to congestion on multi carriage way roads in Ireland. It's the exact same in the states only they call the right hand lane the passing lane.

An infrared flash is fired for every car that goes past a gosafe van regardless of speed. For the most part it is invisible to the human eye but some sensitive eyes may be able to see a dull red light.

Del2005

AMightyPanda wrote: »

Surely he did by gesturing me out of the way when he could see I was not in a position to move either left or right safely without speeding up? That's my point here is I wouldn't have done what I did had the circumstance which occurred not taken place.

Missed that bit in the OP. Only problem is that to fight it you'll need to go to court and hope that the driver remembers.

The_Honeybadger

AMightyPanda wrote: »

Yeah but I'm fairly certain if you appeal it you get more points and a larger fine no? If not I've been misinformed! I've not got a record or previous history of being bold so I'm hoping I can keep this off the cards!

Only if you don't pay and it goes to court. The fixed charge processing office can only say no to your appeal at this stage.

Even if it went to court I'd fancy your chances if the judge believes you or if you can prove there was an ambulance in the area at the time.

GM228

F1ngers wrote: »

Going by your statement and this section from rules of the road:



http://www.rsa.ie/Documents/Learner%20Drivers/Rules_of_the_road.pdf

I would be quietly confident you were in the right if anything comes of it.

Another problem with the rules of the road and the RSAs "interpretation" of them.

The actual laws (remember the Rules of the Road is not a legal source) only allow for the Gardaí and no other members of the emergency services to give direction which can override the road regulations.

That said there is this:-

Non-application of certain Prohibitions and Restrictions

5. (1) These Regulations shall apply save where compliance is not possible as a result of an obstruction to traffic or pedestrians or because of an emergency situation confronting a road user which could not reasonably have been expected or anticipated.

Though I'm not sure if an ambulance flashing would be considered "an emergency situation", whilst an ambulance may be going to an emergency, I doubt the ambulance itself is considered an emergency situation. However I reckon it is a very good defence.

ironclaw

Del2005 wrote: »

The ambulance didn't direct the OP to exceed the speed limit.

I'm curious as to how you would propose for an emergency vehicle or personnel in any capacity to tell a moving car to speed up or slow down

I'm surprised the ambulance didn't enter the bus lane, its always empty on the N11, or why they didn't take position in lane 2 given the options it provides you at junctions. Strange behavior from the ambulance.

Nuw

In your situation OP, I'd seek legal advise immediately, see what your options would be should the fine come to the post, then you can decide if you'd rather pay for it and take 3 points or risk more going to the court.

Your insurance would most likely cover the cost of legal counsel should it come to that, most of them offer 'coverage for legal counsel in relation to the use of the vehicle', I've never used it myself though, might wanna clarify with your insurer if it would fall under this and, if so, if it counts as a claim against the policy.

ScumLord

AMightyPanda wrote: »

1) I say slow lane fast lane rather than inside and outside lane as I lived in the states for a while until December. Just force of habit really, also surely the outside lane is the fast lane as the outside lane is designed for the traffic which is moving faster than that of the inside lane?

Just to continue the pedantry they're not slow lanes and fast lanes in the states either, the highways work the same way as here and calling it slow and fast lanes is also wrong in the US. The outside lane is an overtaking lane, it's not a fast lane in any country.

MojoMaker

Stop whinging OP. It's 80 quid and 3 points and neither will impact you in the slightest. Next time make sure you don't get boxed in anywhere and the lesson will have been worth it.

ironclaw

MojoMaker wrote: »

Stop whinging OP. It's 80 quid and 3 points and neither will impact you in the slightest. Next time make sure you don't get boxed in anywhere and the lesson will have been worth it.

Not sure if you are familiar with the road in question but its very easy to get boxed in there, quite literally in fact. You start wide at Brewery Rd (Going into town) but it becomes narrow at the right bend to the point that if you have a bus to your left and a car to you right, there ain't much between you.

The Gardai and GoSafe also live on that road, so I can see the OP between a rock and a hard place here. The ambulance should have followed proper protocol and past the OP on this right, as is normal. They had no reason to be up his bumper given the right lane and bus lane open to them.