Question about Jon, Ghost and dragons for BOOK READERS ONLY

Paddy Cow

In the books, Jon was able to warg into Ghost and the direwolves played a huge roll which was cut out in the show. Arya was also able to warg not only into Nymeria but also other animals. I always thought that this would have significance when Dany returned with her dragons and Jon would be able to warg into one of them. I don't remember Jon being able to warg into other animals like Arya but maybe he would develop that ability.

If he is to have anything to do with the dragons, will the show explain it by him simply being a Targ? It was also repeated in the books that the dragons needed a rider each and I was left speculating who the other riders apart from Dany would be but again the show has left this out. We got a glimpse of Tyrion communicating with one of the dragons but that was about it and you didn't get a feel that there was any significance about the dragon listening to Tyrion.

The only other person in the show who would be a front runner for controlling a dragon is Bran as he can warg into humans and animals. I have vague recollections (not sure if from the book or show) of Bran being told that he will fly again so maybe that's foreshadowing.

From reading the books, I always thought Jon was an obvious candidate for being a dragon rider but with the way the show cut out his warging abilities, I'm not so sure. What does everyone else think?

stesaurus

I think the show really was afraid of itself in the early days and didn't want to alienate those not too keen on it's fantastical elements. Hence why we're seeing a much more simplified version of the Starks and their direwolves. Also CGI I'm sure is both a pain in the ass to film and super expensive.
I think the books will go a much different route and we may not have the exact same riders or even numbers at the end game. From a show point of view maybe it's easier to just quickly kill off Rhaegal and Viserion and save the budget for Drogon and a heroic Ghost death.
I think Jon's resurrection will also be vastly different in the books. It has to have something to do with warging, right???

CMOTDibbler

s.welstead wrote: »

I think the show really was afraid of itself in the early days and didn't want to alienate those not too keen on it's fantastical elements. Hence why we're seeing a much more simplified version of the Starks and their direwolves. Also CGI I'm sure is both a pain in the ass to film and super expensive.
I think the books will go a much different route and we may not have the exact same riders or even numbers at the end game. From a show point of view maybe it's easier to just quickly kill off Rhaegal and Viserion and save the budget for Drogon and a heroic Ghost death.
I think Jon's resurrection will also be vastly different in the books. It has to have something to do with warging, right???

I would agree with that. I always felt that this was likely to be how he would escape death. There was a lot of talk in the books about skinchangers and what they could do.

stesaurus

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

I would agree with that. I always felt that this was likely to be how he would escape death. There was a lot of talk in the books about skinchangers and what they could do.

Exactly, the prologue about Varamyr has to be pointing us to something otherwise it's just a waste/red herring. The show couldn't really go down that route so it's a much more standard resurrection but that gives Jon a deity quality which I'm not so sure of.

granty1987

Im pretty sure Daario has ridden a dragon loads already

tommy2bad

The show and the books seem to have diverged at this stage so I'm going with Jon being resurrected by fire in the books. He is Targaryen so like Dannie it's possible fire won't burn him. Warging out to Ghost (clue in the name) and being brought back by the flames. The show seems to be tending towards Dannie, Jon and Tyrion as the 3 heads of the dragon. I think the books will go with Dannie, Jon and Jamie. I have a feeling Tyrion is the only child of Tywin, Jaime and Cersei are the mad King's offspring. Having said that, Tyrion's arc in the show most resembles Tywin's. Both ended up as hand of the King to Targaryens so both show and books may go down that route. Still think D&D will play to fan desire and use Tyrion though.
The show may have cut the warging from Jon's character but they have played up the Targaryen line in the season finally, confirming R+L=J (or A?) That pretty much confirms him as a rider.

CMOTDibbler

tommy2bad wrote: »

The show and the books seem to have diverged at this stage so I'm going with Jon being resurrected by fire in the books. He is Targaryen so like Dannie it's possible fire won't burn him. Warging out to Ghost (clue in the name) and being brought back by the flames. The show seems to be tending towards Dannie, Jon and Tyrion as the 3 heads of the dragon. I think the books will go with Dannie, Jon and Jamie. I have a feeling Tyrion is the only child of Tywin, Jaime and Cersei are the mad King's offspring. Having said that, Tyrion's arc in the show most resembles Tywin's. Both ended up as hand of the King to Targaryens so both show and books may go down that route. Still think D&D will play to fan desire and use Tyrion though.
The show may have cut the warging from Jon's character but they have played up the Targaryen line in the season finally, confirming R+L=J (or A?) That pretty much confirms him as a rider.

He got burned whilst saving Jeor Mormont from a wight. There's constant reference to his burned hand in ADWD. So burning him will just produce the normally expected results.

tommy2bad

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

He got burned whilst saving Jeor Mormont from a wight. There's constant reference to his burned hand in ADWD. So burning him will just produce the normally expected results.

Yes, that's true, GRRM has a habit of bait and switch with hints and stuff. Remember in the books R+L=J isn't confirmed but I suspect the show has forced GRRM's hand here. I think he may have been keeping options open untill now.
So yeah I agree but still sticking to my theory.

CMOTDibbler

tommy2bad wrote: »

Yes, that's true, GRRM has a habit of bait and switch with hints and stuff. Remember in the books R+L=J isn't confirmed but I suspect the show has forced GRRM's hand here. I think he may have been keeping options open untill now.
So yeah I agree but still sticking to my theory.

I doubt very much that the show is forcing his hand. Certainly not in the case of Jon Snow who's a central character and would have figured prominently in discussions between GRRM and 2D. There's no confirmation in the books, but there are a lot of hints:

1. The fact that three kingsguard were guarding the Tower of Joy. Kind of overkill seeing as Lyanna would have been in no danger from Robert Baratheon or any of his allies. If it was just Lyanna...
2. The vision that Danaerys had of the blue winter rose growing from a chink in a wall of ice suggests Jon Snow as Lyanna's son (she loved winter roses).
3. The constant insistence that Lyanna was kidnapped by Rhaegar when all evidence suggests that she was as much smitten by him as he by her.
4. Ned while investigating Robert's bastards (and their hair colour), thinks of Jon and then of Lyanna and then of Rhaegar. A strange enough leap from Jon to Lyanna unless...
5. This quote about Lyanna from Ned: "You never knew Lyanna as I did, Robert. You saw her beauty, but not the iron underneath."

People have mentioned that only Howland Reed would know, but there's some evidence that there was more than Howland Reed present when Ned was with Lyanna as she died:

..After that he remembered nothing. They had found him still holding her body, silent with grief. The little crannogman, Howland Reed had taken her hand from his...

I wonder who else was there? 'found him' implies people who were with Ned rather than people who were already at the Tower of Joy.