Will Cleary reopen?

Hollister11

RTE are so using the clearys documentary next Monday, and it got me thinking if it will ever open its doors again.

Now I'm only 20, so nothing in there ever appealed to me, but my parents used to always get Christmas clothes there as kids back in the 70s, and always popped in for a look and to pick something up, whenever we went into town. As a kid I used to go see Santa every Christmas eve. One year the camera wasn't working, so we went to the Jervis instead, and stuck with them until we grew out of going to see him.

So will it ever open back up.?

Lux23

http://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/homes-and-property/interiors/what-will-apple-do-to-clerys-clock-1.2706996

L1011

Not a chance. That type of department store is dead here.

ProudDUB

No, it's not. Arnotts & Debenhams aren't dead. Nor are Easons & Pennys, just across the road. There is no reason why Clearys can't succeed again, if the proper thought, money & effort went into making it a shop that people actually want to go into, selling things that people actually want to buy. It needs some one with the vision and deep pockets to construct a properly workable business model, that suits the premises and the location. If that were to happen, it could take off again. My fingers are crossed, but I'm not optimistic.

L1011

ProudDUB wrote: »

No, it's not. Arnotts & Debenhams aren't dead. Nor are Easons & Pennys, just across the road. There is no reason why Clearys can't succeed again, if the proper thought, money & effort went into making it a shop that people actually want to go into, selling things that people actually want to buy. It needs some one with the vision and deep pockets to construct a properly workable business model, that suits the premises and the location. If that were to happen, it could take off again. My fingers are crossed, but I'm not optimistic.

Debenhams are in examinerhip! Arnotts went under and are barely recovering - they had to close their closest to Clerys division (Boyers) only a few months ago. While completely incomparable as they're a stationers not a department store, Eason have just made their first (tiny) profit in years. Penneys and Clerys similar? Are you having a laugh?

Old style department stores are dead. You either need to be super-premium (BT, Harvey Nicks), super cheap fast fashion and ditch nearly every other department (Penneys, H&M) or die. The costs of running an old building do not support super-cheap; and both those I mentioned have flagship stores too nearby.

There will never be another full department store in that building. Remember Clerys had the restaurants, the electronics, the furniture, all the remenants of an old department store.

ProudDUB

Jebus. Chillax. I just said I wasn't optimistic about Clearys reopening as a department store. The problems that Arnotts & Debenhams have, are related to other financial difficulties that their parent companies have. It does mean that those two stores are not viable trading locations.

Debenhams Ireland are in a squabble with their landlords (the Roche family, who still own the flagship Roches Stores Henry St site) over excessive rental rates.

http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/debenhams-sees-off-billionaire-ashleys-tilt-at-troubled-irish-arm-34841982.html

The English branch of the company are looking to buy the Irish operation. It going into receivership, means they can get it for knock down price, as well as force the Roches to play ball on the rents.

The former parent company of Arnotts got into trouble speculating on bad property deals during the Celtic Tiger era. Again, it's not a reflection on how the shop itself is doing.

http://www.irishtimes.com/business/retail-and-services/selfridges-buys-dublin-department-store-arnotts-1.2414524

Arnotts’ accounts for the year to the end of January 2014 show that it had bank debts of €383 million. Some €160 million of this related to the privatisation of the company in 2003 with the balance connected with the purchase of adjoining properties for the Norther Quarter development, which was to have comprised 1.4 million sq feet of retail and commercial space.

This ambitious plan was devised by Arnotts’ previous owner Richard Nesbitt but was scuppered by the Irish banking and property crash in late 2008.

Old school department stores all over the world, have to find new ways to keep themselves relevant in the rapidly changing world of retail. Some can hack it. Some can't. It all comes down to having owners who make good decisions and are able to make it work. I'd say that the majority of them fail, overall. However, it doesn't mean that old school department stores can no longer succeed. Full stop.

I brought up Easons and Pennys, as viable businesses on the street, as in the original thread about Clearys closing, people frequently bought up O'Connell St not having the shopping footfall that Henry St does. They both prove that a large retail outlet on O'Connell St can survive long term.

L1011

ProudDUB wrote: »

Jebus. Chillax. I just said I wasn't optimistic about Clearys reopening as a department store. The problems that Arnotts & Debenhams have, are related to other financial difficulties that their parent companies have. It does mean that those two stores are not viable trading locations.

Debenhams parent company is just fine - the Irish arm is dying as the model does not work here anymore. The potential reduction on the rents in dispute do not even come close to the current losses - that is just one element of their problens.

ProudDUB wrote: »

The English branch of the company are looking to buy the Irish operation. It going into receivership, means they can get it for knock down price, as well as force the Roches to play ball on the rents.

Its a wholly owned subsidiary already. They can't buy it as they already own it and would not be an acceptable purchaser of the assets at a liquidation sale. You don't really understand this, do you?

ProudDUB wrote: »

The former parent company of Arnotts got into trouble speculating on bad property deals during the Celtic Tiger era. Again, it's not a reflection on how the shop itself is doing.

And the new parent had to close Boyers (which is very like old Clerys) as it was losing too much money; as well as undergo huge restructuring on the main operations. Because the old model is dead.

ProudDUB wrote: »

Old school department stores all over the world, have to find new ways to keep themselves relevant in the rapidly changing world of retail. Some can hack it. Some can't. It all comes down to having owners who make good decisions and are able to make it work. I'd say that the majority of them fail, overall. However, it doesn't mean that old school department stores can no longer succeed. Full stop.

Clerys had time and didn't. All we have left now is an empty, old, unsuitable building and a brand name only our mothers respect. It is dead, the model is dead, the site is dead. It will never reopen. You cannot resurrect a non-premium department store brand that is already considered a failure by the bulk of the population and turn it in to either of the new models that work - and the building won't work for them anyway. It was modernised about as much as possible after the roof caved in and guess what? Still an abject failure.

All old school department stores have already failed, by the way. Debenhams would be very much in to the 1980s concept of big brand concessions, designer own brand lines and its still going down the tubes here.

ProudDUB wrote: »

I brought up Easons and Pennys, as viable businesses on the street, as in the original thread about Clearys closing, people frequently bought up O'Connell St not having the shopping footfall that Henry St does. They both prove that a large retail outlet on O'Connell St can survive long term.

You brought them up in comparison to Clerys and its model being unviable. If you wanted to bring them up as O'Connell Street businesses you were in the wrong thread and didn't say that was your point.


Misty-eyed remembrances of Clerys past won't bring it back. People need to move on. It will never reopen and there will never be a full department store on its site. There won't be a mid-range full department store in the city within 18 months the way things are going.

imme

No Clerys will not reopen.

The people who wanted to make money off the 'sale' of Clerys have made their money.

Send name looks to be a fight for lower rent. They were too stupid in the first place, it is their own fault.
The overall Debenhams model is lowest number of staff, LCD type stuff.

cgcsb

Clearys was bought yesterday

http://www.rte.ie/news/2016/0708/801212-clerys-action/

Roumors of it becoming an apple store.

L1011

cgcsb wrote: »

Clearys was bought yesterday

http://www.rte.ie/news/2016/0708/801212-clerys-action/

Roumors of it becoming an apple store.

No. That's a report on the purchase last year

Strumms

There is a serious shortage of hotel beds in the city compared to demand. I know there is another hotel due to open on O'Connell St but surely if some hotel group like say Radisson or whoever bought it and spent money on it that it would work out a winner. It's a magnificent building for a start all be it it would take a great investment I guess to convert in interior which might be the only downside but would have to pay off in the long term.

Don't get the whole Apple idea. I've been in Apple stores across some of the major European cities and none of them would come close to having the same square footage of the ground floor of Cleary's alone.. what would happen to the rest of the massive building ?

L1011

Only international premium hotel group* with a huge gap in their city centre provision for Dublin is Intercontinental but similar buildings have converted very well to premium hotels - Radisson Leeds was a bank HQ of a similar style and Hilton Point in Edinburgh was a department store. Floorplates are much more suited to hotel use than to retail these days.

*that bothers with Ireland - Wyndham have nothing at all here; but Radisson have Golden Lane, Hilton have Morrison/Burlington/Custom House, Starwood have the Westin and Marriott have the Shelbourne

Actually, the Leeds example is a very good one really. Its on the main street of the city, but opens on to three more sides just like Clerys; the oldest bit houses a hotel with the banking hall being reception/bar/restaurant - the ground floor and central stairs area of Clerys would do for that. Rest of the site is further restaurants, some small shops, a gym and a cinema.

Strumms

Was the Westin a bank also before they turned it into a hotel ? if I recall they put some major money and time into that building and it's payed off, it is a really nice hotel and could be indicative of what could be done with the Cleary's building if someone has the will and the cash to put into it. O'Connell St has tons of potential really. The biggest crime I think is that up to today and all through the Celtic Tiger years we have the Carlton site just sitting there ugly and idle and we don't need another big yet all be it beautiful waste of space in the main St of our capital. Do something with it and sort out the Carlton it's embarrassing. Get something built that people can use and interact with whatever it is. Get some more footfall into the street other then people Qing for buses.

VincePP

No Clerys will not reopen as a dept store.

It will be split into 3-4 large stores and its likely Apple will take the largest space.

There are currently over a dozen major international fashion names looking for a large city centre store, so no shortage of tenants for the space.

Upper floors will almost certainly be hotel and restaurant.

Planning is expected to be applied for before end of year.

L1011

Strumms wrote: »

Was the Westin a bank also before they turned it into a hotel ? if I recall they put some major money and time into that building and it's payed off, it is a really nice hotel and could be indicative of what could be done with the Cleary's building if someone has the will and the cash to put into it. O'Connell St has tons of potential really. The biggest crime I think is that up to today and all through the Celtic Tiger years we have the Carlton site just sitting there ugly and idle and we don't need another big yet all be it beautiful waste of space in the main St of our capital. Do something with it and sort out the Carlton it's embarrassing. Get something built that people can use and interact with whatever it is. Get some more footfall into the street other then people Qing for buses.

It was - the banking hall is the centrepiece meeting room or wedding venue now. Hotel operators are one of the few willing to spend big money on that kind of preservation-renovation combo.

Carlton site needs sorting - the loans associated were sold this week so something may happen. I'd like the GPO to take on more of a museum role and maybe move the day to day postal office applications to a modern side street office. Clear the arcades, require the fast food places to tone down their facades (every big city main street has them, even multiples like OCS has - but they control the look). I don't see Anne Summers as as big a problem as others do.

Some reason to get people to visit the street after hours, e.g. a bigger cinema or other non-drink leisure venues and a few more retail anchors and you've got the core of a regeneration

If somehow a cinema turned up elsewhere, e.g. the Carlton site/Dublin Central plans it would be very interesting to try turn the Savoy in to a museum of Irish cinematography.