My solictor and purchaser delaying sale of property!

2rkehij30qtza5

***UPDATE**** Issue resolved. See post no. 29 for update as to what happened. Thanks for everyone's input.


My solicitor has sent a letter to my bank (top letter in attached doc) and wants a reply from them to attach to her undertaking before she will allow me to close the sale on my property.

The bank previously wrote to her two weeks ago (bottom letter in attachment) and it's my belief that they have already answered her question in that letter.

My solicitor will not accept that the bottom letter already contains the answers to her queries posed in the top letter.

This is going to delay the sale beyond the closing date because based on previous dealings with the bank, it could take weeks for them to respond. Both me and the purchasers have signed the contracts and it's meant to close this Thursday (7th July).

It could take weeks for the bank to respond to the top letter to my solicitor. My solicitor also told me in the same breath that the purchasers haven't received their loan cheque from the bank but that it's due on Friday. I am so stressed as I am leaving the country next week and this sale should have been totally completed by now. I feel my solicitor is being unreasonable and yet she won't listen to me.

I instructed my solicitor to close this week and she says she won't unless she gets a reply to the top letter from the bank.

Does the bottom letter from the bank to my solicitor not already answer her queries???? It says if you provide a+b = discharge of charge and mortgage on property. It also says we (bank) have received b. So is it not obvious that only a (the money) is outstanding????

I owe her nothing as all bills have been settled and I've even put her fee into her bank account! The only thing required is the loan cheque (which seems to be delayed in being issued by a few days).

Am I missing something here??? I feel that the top letter is just causing a further obstruction to the closing date and is not necessary at all, as my solicitor already has all the info she needs (as per bottom letter).

Pro Hoc Vice

Issac Whispering Seaboard wrote: »

I've a couple of questions:
My property is sale-agreed and both me and the purchasers have signed the contracts. The closing date is this Thursday.

I just got an email from my solicitor saying
1. The purchaser's loan cheque isn't in. It might be Friday before it's in.So, I am wondering what happens if the purchasers are not ready come closing date?

2. She wants my bank to confirm YET AGAIN that I can proceed with the sale for loss (I have agreement made with the bank that I can do this. Agreement is signed, sealed and delivered). I have attached a semi-blanked out copy of the letter my solicitor wants answered from the bank and a letter she already received two weeks ago, which answers her questions already.

She's not taking my calls. Only her secretary is taking messages from me and isn't happy because I challenged this query she has for the bank. This could delay things on my end. I have asked her what the repercussions will be for me if getting this 'letter' delays things beyond this week..no reply. I am at my wits end. I am NOT looking for legal advice here...I am merely trying to get opinions. Am I mad in thinking that her query has already been answered? This faffing around could get me into trouble with the purchaser, given that contracts are already signed! Plus the mental strain of all of this on me has been unbelieveable. I cannot head into another weekend with this thing not closed.

Also, today is the first I ever heard of this letter that she sent to the bank on 29th June! She has asked me to chase it up! I'm at a loss about this because I no longer know what to do or who to ask.

Any opinions would be welcome. Mods if this is in breach of anything, please delete it. Thanks

Your Solicitor has not asked can you proceed but asked can you satisfy the condition namely that all monies received will be used and no deductions allowed so you need to confirm you have seperate funds to cover all fees taxes bills etc or more correctly put solicitor in funds if not all ready done.

2rkehij30qtza5

Pro Hoc Vice wrote: »

Your Solicitor has not asked can you proceed but asked can you satisfy the condition namely that all monies received will be used and no deductions allowed so you need to confirm you have seperate funds to cover all fees taxes bills etc or more correctly put solicitor in funds if not all ready done.

I have already paid all fees to the solicitor and the solicitor has been given monies transferred by me into her account to satisfy the balance required by the bank (not including the purchaser's loan cheque).

Pro Hoc Vice

Issac Whispering Seaboard wrote: »

I have already paid all fees to the solicitor and the solicitor has required monies transferred by me into her account to satisfy the balance required by the bank (not including the purchaser's loan cheque).

Has all taxes and bills relating to property been paid. If all has been paid write to solicitor to say you have satisfied the condition.

2rkehij30qtza5

Pro Hoc Vice wrote: »

Your Solicitor has not asked can you proceed but asked can you satisfy the condition namely that all monies received will be used and no deductions allowed so you need to confirm you have seperate funds to cover all fees taxes bills etc or more correctly put solicitor in funds if not all ready done.

sorry...it says already in the letter she got two weeks ago that no deductions are allowed..so this is already confirmed

2rkehij30qtza5

Pro Hoc Vice wrote: »

Has all taxes and bills relating to property been paid. If all has been paid write to solicitor to say you have satisfied the condition.

yes everything has been paid. I have already emailed her and told her all conditions have been satisfied and I actually instructed her to close this week and she is still refusing to do so without this letter (the top letter in the attachment) answered from the bank. I owe nothing now, not even the solicitors fees as I've transferred money to her to cover everything

Pro Hoc Vice

Issac Whispering Seaboard wrote: »

sorry...it says already in the letter she got on 22nd june that no deductions are allowed

Yes and your solicitor has written asking you to confirm that condition can be met. You say yes to that question, of course dependent on cleared funds from purchaser.

2rkehij30qtza5

Pro Hoc Vice wrote: »

Yes and your solicitor has written asking you to confirm that condition can be met. You say yes to that question.

but the letter is to the bank and not me! she wants the bank to reply. It can take weeks for the bank to send out these letters. its delaying things on me when there is no need.

2rkehij30qtza5

Pro Hoc Vice wrote: »

Yes and your solicitor has written asking you to confirm that condition can be met. You say yes to that question, of course dependent on cleared funds from purchaser.

the letter is to the bank. she doesn't want me to confirm anything. she wants my BANK to confirm. Even though it seems clear to me from the letter of 2 weeks ago that my bank has already confirmed everything she is asking for (the sums that I blanked out are the same in both letters!)

Pro Hoc Vice

Issac Whispering Seaboard wrote: »

yes everything has been paid. I have already emailed her and told her all conditions have been satisfied and I actually instructed her to close this week and she is still refusing to do so without this letter.

But how can your solicitor close this week? Your first post says the purchaser does not have funds and earliest will be Friday, your Solicitor does not and more than likely will not have cleared funds by the end of this week so your solicitor can not because of the condition close.

In your attached documents the top letter was sent to the Bank and not you?

2rkehij30qtza5

Pro Hoc Vice wrote: »

But how can your solicitor close this week? Your first post says the purchaser does not have funds and earliest will be Friday, your Solicitor does not and more than likely will not have cleared funds by the end of this week so your solicitor can not because of the condition close.

In your attached documents the top letter was sent to the Bank and not you?

Yeah. Attached letters are between the bank and my solicitor and not to or from me. There are two letters in the attachment. The first (top one) is to the bank from my solicitor a few days ago. I just have a copy of it and hence could post an exerpt of it.

The one below it is a letter to my solicitor FROM the bank two weeks ago.

Basically, from what I can see, the earlier letter from the bank (the bottom letter) already gave the answers to the questions that the solicitor is now asking the bank in the top letter!!

I don't know why she needed to send the top letter to the bank. The bank are slow to respond, thereby will delay the sale.

The contracts have been signed by me and by the purchasers. The closing date for the sale is July 7th, which is Thursday. Turns out my solicitor emailed me today to say that the purchasers loan cheque isn't ready and won't be until July 8th.

Basically I am wondering if people concur that the bottom letter already gives the answers to the questions posed by my solicitor to the bank in the top letter attached?

2rkehij30qtza5

I've edited the original post in the hope that it makes my situation clearer and that someone can give me an opinion. Thanks

Pat Mustard

Galwaygirlee, the position is unclear.

You believe that your solicitor already has the necessary information from the bank but that she is looking to get the same information again before the sale can close. If your solicitor has all of the necessary information, why does she request further information?

You wrote this:

My solicitor will not accept that the bottom letter already contains the answers to her queries posed in the top letter

You also posted excerpts from letters. The top excerpt contains two questions within one sentence. First, whether a condition has been fulfilled. Secondly, whether a certain sum of money is all that will be required to procure release of all charges.

The excerpt of the reply from the bank appears to deal with the second question regarding the sum of money but it does not appear to deal with the first question as to whether the aforementioned condition has been fulfilled. We do not have any information about this condition and we cannot say whether it is important or not.

Overall, there is not enough information in your post to say if the solicitor's first question has been answered.

You also say that the purchasers do not have the money to complete the sale at the moment but that they expect to have it soon.

You need to speak to your solicitor to ask what information she wants from the bank and why she wants it. You also need to voice your concern that you believe that she already has all of the required information.

You say that it will take the bank weeks to reply to the query posed by the solicitor. I don't see why this should be accepted. When you ring your solicitor, you should ask her advice on pressuring your contact in the bank to procure the relevant information as soon as possible.

2rkehij30qtza5

Pat Mustard wrote: »

Galwaygirlee, the position is unclear.

You believe that your solicitor already has the necessary information from the bank but that she is looking to get the same information again before the sale can close. If your solicitor has all of the necessary information, why does she request further information?

You wrote this:


You also posted excerpts from letters. The top excerpt contains two questions within one sentence. First, whether a condition has been fulfilled. Secondly, whether a certain sum of money is all that will be required to procure release of all charges.

The excerpt of the reply from the bank appears to deal with the second question regarding the sum of money but it does not appear to deal with the first question as to whether the aforementioned condition has been fulfilled. We do not have any information about this condition and we cannot say whether it is important or not.

Overall, there is not enough information in your post to say if the solicitor's first question has been answered.

You also say that the purchasers do not have the money to complete the sale at the moment but that they expect to have it soon.

You need to speak to your solicitor to ask what information she wants from the bank and why she wants it. You also need to voice your concern that you believe that she already has all of the required information.

You say that it will take the bank weeks to reply to the query posed by the solicitor. I don't see why this should be accepted. When you ring your solicitor, you should ask her advice on pressuring your contact in the bank to procure the relevant information as soon as possible.

Thank you for the reply.
Yes, you are correct in that my solicitor is asking for information from the bank that I believe she already has, thereby delaying the sale.

I believe that the bottom letter answers both queries in the top letter. Basically, the bottom letter states that if A + B are provided, then the bank will provide C.
'A' being the sum of money and 'B' being receipt of the signed agreement. 'C' is the discharge of the charge/mortgage.

The bottom letter further states that the signed agreement was received on 22nd June. i.e. the bank needed receipt of the signed agreement and clarify that they have indeed got receipt of the signed agreement and even state the date that they received the signed agreement (22nd June). This can be seen in the bottom letter.

Does this not clarify the position? So the only outstanding issue to fulfill the formula (the A + B gives C formula that I have come up with) is the sum of money (the money that the property cost the purchasers)?

So what I am trying to say to the solicitor is that the letter she got two weeks ago already answers her questions in the letter she has now sent to the bank. So why on earth does she need it reiterated a second time to her?

It's delaying the sale and not doing my nerves any good. I am sick to the stomach over this. This process has been difficult as it was a short sale. And this whole current debacle with this letter that my solicitor requires was never mentioned to me at signing stage. This is a new thing that she has come up with just before closing.

My solicitor didn't take any calls from me yesterday. The secretary was shirty with me when I rang. I then emailed the solicitor and pointed out that she already has the documentation required and I instructed her to close by the end of the week. She hasn't responded to my emails in this regard.

SB_Part2

If the purchaser's funds aren't available yet then I don't see how your solicitor is delaying things because you can't close without it. Your solicitor works in your interest but also in the banks interest. If they need this clarified properly for the sale to go through I don't see what the issue is.

2rkehij30qtza5

SB_Part2 wrote: »

If the purchaser's funds aren't available yet then I don't see how your solicitor is delaying things because you can't close without it. Your solicitor works in your interest but also in the banks interest. If they need this clarified properly for the sale to go through I don't see what the issue is.

The issue is that the purchaser's funds will be in on Friday. So it will be deal-done from the purchaser's point of view.
The second issue is that my solicitor doesn't need the information she is looking for as she already received the information 2 weeks ago. Even the bank are saying that.

I have asked them to issue her a letter but the bank have processes and procedures and it will take time..thereby leaving me not able to close, owing interest, costing me money and seriously disrupting my life.

SB_Part2

Who told you the purchasers funds would be available Friday?

HelgaWard

Has a similar problem when selling last year. Solicitor refusing to close sale, until the bank confirmed in writing something which should never have needed to be confirmed in the first instance. What I had to do was get on to the bank by phone (e-mail/letter etc too slow) you need to ring and keep ringing until you get talking to the relevant person and eventually through me e-mailing that individual the entire details and explaining the situation they were able to compose letter to solicitor post a copy and fax/e-mail a copy to the solicitor so as not to delay sale.

Don't rely on postal contact with the bank, keep ringing until you get to deal with a human being directly.

Donnielighto

Could the solicitor be censured for not acting correctly here if they are refusing to accept valid information and delaying the sale.

2rkehij30qtza5

SB_Part2 wrote: »

Who told you the purchasers funds would be available Friday?

my solicitor

HelgaWard wrote: »

Has a similar problem when selling last year. Solicitor refusing to close sale, until the bank confirmed in writing something which should never have needed to be confirmed in the first instance. What I had to do was get on to the bank by phone (e-mail/letter etc too slow) you need to ring and keep ringing until you get talking to the relevant person and eventually through me e-mailing that individual the entire details and explaining the situation they were able to compose letter to solicitor post a copy and fax/e-mail a copy to the solicitor so as not to delay sale. Don't rely on postal contact with the bank, keep ringing until you get to deal with a human being directly.

I wonder do we have the same solicitor?

Donnielighto wrote: »

Could the solicitor be censured for not acting correctly here if they are refusing to accept valid information and delaying the sale.

I’d love to know this. It’s a living nightmare. I’m all day chasing a letter on my solicitor’s behalf. What on earth have I paid her for, when I’m doing her work. She still hasn’t replied to me since yesterday. Awful.

HelgaWard

Issac Whispering Seaboard wrote: »

my solicitor

I wonder do we have the same solicitor?


I’d love to know this. It’s a living nightmare. I’m all day chasing a letter on my solicitor’s behalf. What on earth have I paid her for, when I’m doing her work. She still hasn’t replied to me since yesterday. Awful.

No not the same solicitor as mine was male. We were the exact same had to keep piling the pressure on to staff in the bank to get an answer, that was really what we had paid the solicitor to do in the first instance. Sooooooo stressful and so frustrating. You would think it would be in their own interest to get it all wrapped up as quickly as possible. Bacially I got the impression that they live in fear of being audited by the Law Society and that they have to ensure they are every single I dotted and T crossed.

Doesn't make it easy for their customers. Ours only told me about 2 days before we eventually closed that we needed proof that we had paid our irish water bills and our account with them was all above board. He could have told me I would need that 6 months beforehand. Why can they just not have a check list of everything you need?

Nightmare I don't envy you, but you just have to keep the pressure on and don't take no for an answer.

MarkAnthony

HelgaWard wrote: »

I got the impression that they live in fear of being audited by the Law Society and that they have to ensure they are every single I dotted and T crossed.

One would hope so!

HelgaWard wrote: »

Doesn't make it easy for their customers.

Solicitors like prostitutes have 'clients' rather than customers. Customer generally get what ever they want if they're willing to pay enough. Clients have to have limits set. :pac:

2rkehij30qtza5

HelgaWard wrote: »

No not the same solicitor as mine was male. We were the exact same had to keep piling the pressure on to staff in the bank to get an answer, that was really what we had paid the solicitor to do in the first instance. Sooooooo stressful and so frustrating. You would think it would be in their own interest to get it all wrapped up as quickly as possible. Bacially I got the impression that they live in fear of being audited by the Law Society and that they have to ensure they are every single I dotted and T crossed.

Doesn't make it easy for their customers. Ours only told me about 2 days before we eventually closed that we needed proof that we had paid our irish water bills and our account with them was all above board. He could have told me I would need that 6 months beforehand. Why can they just not have a check list of everything you need?

Nightmare I don't envy you, but you just have to keep the pressure on and don't take no for an answer.

It's just awful. I wouldn't wish this on my worst enemy. I have contacted friends who are solicitors (but for various reasons I didn't use them for the conveyancing) and they are literally aghast at my solicitor's behavior.

Pat Mustard

Issac Whispering Seaboard wrote: »

The bottom letter further states that the signed agreement was received on 22nd June. i.e. the bank needed receipt of the signed agreement and clarify that they have indeed got receipt of the signed agreement and even state the date that they received the signed agreement (22nd June). This can be seen in the bottom letter.

Does this not clarify the position? So the only outstanding issue to fulfill the formula (the A + B gives C formula that I have come up with) is the sum of money (the money that the property cost the purchasers)?

This does not clarify the position.

The question was whether a condition was fulfilled.

You say that receipt of a signed agreement shows that the condition was fulfilled.

However, we have not been told what the condition states. Therefore, we cannot say whether the condition was fulfilled, whether by sending a signed agreement or otherwise. This condition may not be at all relevant but because we don't know what it is, we can't tell.

There is not enough information to answer your question.

I think that you should insist that the solicitor should ring you back.

2rkehij30qtza5

Pat Mustard wrote: »

This does not clarify the position.

The question was whether a condition was fulfilled.

You say that receipt of a signed agreement shows that the condition was fulfilled.

However, we have not been told what the condition states. Therefore, we cannot say whether the condition was fulfilled, whether by sending a signed agreement or otherwise. This condition may not be at all relevant but because we don't know what it is, we can't tell.

There is not enough information to answer your question.

I think that you should insist that the solicitor should ring you back.

Desperately trying to ring my solicitor and she's not replying to emails or calls. The bank have just clarified to me that they answered her letter already a few days ago. They responded to her via post and via fax and they have proof that she received the fax. They then re-faxed it to her at 2.15pm. I just phoned the secretary and she's saying that she doesn't have the fax!!! WHAT?!

Pat Mustard

Issac Whispering Seaboard wrote: »

Desperately trying to ring my solicitor and she's not replying to emails or calls. The bank have just clarified to me that they answered her letter already a few days ago. They responded to her via post and via fax and they have proof that she received the fax. They then re-faxed it to her at 2.15pm. I just phoned the secretary and she's saying that she doesn't have the fax!!! WHAT?!

Can you get hold of a copy of the letter, through your bank branch or otherwise, and get it to your solicitor?

MarkAnthony

Issac Whispering Seaboard wrote: »

Desperately trying to ring my solicitor and she's not replying to emails or calls. The bank have just clarified to me that they answered her letter already a few days ago. They responded to her via post and via fax and they have proof that she received the fax. They then re-faxed it to her at 2.15pm. I just phoned the secretary and she's saying that she doesn't have the fax!!! WHAT?!

Go and get hard copies and drop it all in. Presence of the client focuses the mind.

Incidentally folks this is why you should always go with a personal recommendation rather than shopping around for the best price. While it still happens and I'm sure the OP went on a recommendation it happens a lot less.

Best of luck OP.

2rkehij30qtza5

MarkAnthony wrote: »

Go and get hard copies and drop it all in. Presence of the client focuses the mind.

Incidentally folks this is why you should always go with a personal recommendation rather than shopping around for the best price. While it still happens and I'm sure the OP went on a recommendation it happens a lot less.

Best of luck OP.

But I am in Galway and the mortgage bank is in Dublin.
my solicitor is also in north Dublin. so I cannot physically get there.

2rkehij30qtza5

*****UPDATE******

So, since I last posted, I sent an email to the solicitor as follows:

"The bank have confirmed to me that they posted the letter to you last week. They have also confirmed that they FAXED the letter to you on the same date. They have also confirmed that they have a printout of the FAX receipt showing you received the FAX on that date."

Within 10 minutes I get an email reply and she says "I wish to confirm we now have the fax and this is sufficient to answer our query."

I then ask for a copy of this fax.

And guess what....I WAS RIGHT. The fax is exactly the same as the letter she got 2 weeks ago. The date is just different. It is dated on the date that it was sent to her (a few days ago).

Never in my life have I put up with such cr*p. I have literally lost sleep over this, lost weight over this and am just ill from it all. Nightmare stuff. Talk about being obstructive. You'd have to wonder why? I have lost all faith...

MarkAnthony

I'm afraid conveyancing solicitors are usually extremely busy, some are better organised than others.

I hope it's all sorted OP!

HelgaWard

Maybe when all is done and dusted, send her a letter with your feedback. I'd say nobody every complains to them. They don't care that the people involved have movers booked, leave booked, friends booked to help with leave etc etc. They just don't care. They get to be the puppet master!

Anyway, deep breaths, you got it sorted. Keep the pressure on now until the whole thing is complete. Then get yourself a good stress busting massage!!

2rkehij30qtza5

MarkAnthony wrote: »

I'm afraid conveyancing solicitors are usually extremely busy, some are better organised than others.

I hope it's all sorted OP!

Sorted now as per post above. If a solicitor is too busy to take on a conveyancing case and deal with it properly, then they shouldn't take on the work. Being busy isn't an excuse for causing unnecessary stress and looking for additional unnecessary paperwork!

2rkehij30qtza5

HelgaWard wrote: »

Maybe when all is done and dusted, send her a letter with your feedback. I'd say nobody every complains to them. They don't care that the people involved have movers booked, leave booked, friends booked to help with leave etc etc. They just don't care. They get to be the puppet master!

Anyway, deep breaths, you got it sorted. Keep the pressure on now until the whole thing is complete. Then get yourself a good stress busting massage!!

I think I will do that - send feedback.
Sorry you had to go through the same dilemma. I actually feel so sorry for the bank staff...I practically had them stalked for the last two days looking for the letter and it turns out all along that my solicitor had it, even though she claimed until now that she didn't. Unbelieveable. Badly in need of some stress busting.