Working in England for company at home

deviladvocate

I work for a company in the North, and a lot of the projects I work on are based in England. This leads to me being based in England fairly often, sometimes for months at a time (though I am flown home at weekends). The company organises and pays all my flights, hotel, car hire etc. I generally fly over the first fight on Monday morning and am home on the last flight on a Friday evening and the majority of the time I'm on my own.

There's a couple of things about it I'd like to know people's opinions on, as I feel I'm getting taken advantage of by my company quite a bit!
(As context - I'm a mid 20s university graduate, no wife/kids)

Firstly, while I always know there's a trip coming up in the next couple of months or so it's never confirmed to me until the week before I go over, which can mess with personal plans. I'm also never given an accurate estimate of how long I'll be over for, generally told 2 weeks which often extends to 2/3 months

Secondly, I'm not on great pay as it is, but as I'm only a couple of years out of college and still getting experience I'm sort of OK with that. I'm on a salary, so get paid a fixed amount regardless of any overtime I work. But as compensation for being away from home i'm given a small daily allowance, which is about enough to buy a dinner in the evening - but that's all. I don't feel it's enough to cover being away from home for as long as I am, especially considering I tend to work longer hours when in England.

So basically I'd like to know if this is standard enough practice or if people think it's unfair to get sent away for such long periods with no real compensation for it, and if so what would be a fair amount to expect?

Thanks!

Stheno

Standard practice tbh

davo10

Your flights are paid home and they pay your accomadation, you are given an allowance on top of your wage, you are complaining about the effect on your social life, am I missing something?

The company is based in the North and you work in the UK so you are covered by UK legislation.

Stheno

davo10 wrote: »

Your flights are paid home and you are given an allowance on top of your wage, am I missing something?

Plus accommodation and presumably breakfast?

davo10

Stheno wrote: »

Plus accommodation and presumably breakfast?

I reread it again because I couldn't believe it and edited my post.

Stheno

davo10 wrote: »

I reread it again because I couldn't believe it and edited my post.

I'd have an issue if op was not getting home at weekends but they are.

I've had assignment s. Where I was away for weeks on end and got extra allowances

deviladvocate

As mentioned in the original post, the allowance is just about enough to buy a dinner in the evening.
When I look at how much I'm able to save when based at home versus how much I save when in England, there's a pretty drastic fall, because there is quite a bit of additional personal expense while over there which is not covered - so is it actually worth my while agreeing to do these England jobs?

I don't get paid anything for the additional hours I work, and it just seems like there is no incentive to give up all my sports and personal life to go be in England on my own for an extended period. There's plenty of work in NI, but I never seem to get those jobs.

There are also people in the company who are paid by the hour, who get paid an increased rate when working outside of NI, and are paid for every hour they work, but nothing like that for those on salary.

Also, a note on the UK legislation comment.... what relevance has that?

Stheno

What additional expense are you incurring?

OldMrBrennan83

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Stheno

Patww79 wrote: »

Instead of trying to jump on him for not wanting to look at the four walls of a hotel room all week, if that's what you're getting at, I'd more be questioning why other people in the position have different rules around travel and are reimbursed better because of it. That can't be right, though I have seen a company pull that before.

They've negotiated a different contract or are lying to the op

In most cases that I've experienced travel during the week compensates you for flights hotels and an evening meal and that's it

davo10

deviladvocate wrote: »

There's plenty of work in NI, but I never seem to get those jobs.

Also, a note on the UK legislation comment.... what relevance has that?

So, the choices are, stay in your salaried job which flies you home at weekend, pays your accomodation and gives you living expenses, or, collect social welfare so that you can go out with your mates. A lot of Irish people have had to emigrate to find a job and their bosses don't pay for flights home or accomadation.

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

Stheno

Patww79 wrote: »

In most I experienced I had between 40 and 50 euro a day to spend as I wished on top of a car, hotel, flights, parking, etc. Only once I didn't and it was with an NI company travelling over and back to Northamptonshire too, and they are light years behind when it comes to things like that.

Did that cover meals? I'd a fifty Euro a day allowance for dinner when working abroad with a multinational along with what you describe.

On appears to want an unsociable living allowance

OldMrBrennan83

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davo10

Patww79 wrote: »

Breakfast in the hotel, and then €50 ($60) for whatever else. $80 if the hotel didn't do breakfast.
Whether he is entitled to more is one thing, but if colleagues are getting better remuneration for the same travel then something is up.

You don't have to at breakfast in the hotel and what others earn is their business, they may be there longer or negotiated better terms.

mulbot

The remuneration is disgraceful OP-I used to do alot of this type of work and the company paid 45 euro per day along with having hotel,breakfast,dinner and flights paid-The only thing I had to sort was lunch,maybe go have a chat with management.

Stheno

mulbot wrote: »

The remuneration is disgraceful OP-I used to do alot of this type of work and the company paid 45 euro per day along with having hotel,breakfast,dinner and flights paid-The only thing I had to sort was lunch,maybe go have a chat with management.

I've worked with this environment for over 13 years extra allowances are rare

mulbot

Stheno wrote: »

I've worked with this environment for over 13 years extra allowances are rare

That's very true,i actually only know of one(besides where I worked) that pay decent rates,think it's 52 per day with a thousand extra every 6 weeks away.

deviladvocate

davo10 wrote: »

deviladvocate wrote: »

There's plenty of work in NI, but I never seem to get those jobs.

Also, a note on the UK legislation comment.... what relevance has that?

So, the choices are, stay in your salaried job which flies you home at weekend, pays your accomodation and gives you living expenses, or, collect social welfare so that you can go out with your mates. A lot of Irish people have had to emigrate to find a job and their bosses don't pay for flights home or accomadation.

Some may disagree, but this argument seems stupid to me... They emigrated, they booked a flight and now live there... They pay their rent/mortgage, which I would not expect any company to do, and live there, as I live and work in NI... However if (lets say someone in Australia) they were to get shipped to the other end of Australia for their job, I'd like to think the company would pay the travel and accomodation - as well as reasonable reimbursement for their time

The way you've said it it's as if I'm living free because they pay my travel and accomodation, because obviously when I'm in England I don't have rent or any bills to pay in NI. WRONG!

To elaborate, it's the same deal for everyone on salary, no additional pay for being away from home, only the hourly paid workers, that's the standard. There are some who have been there longer and have negotiated more, yes (and this is only fair), but this is the standard deal.

And to those stating 50 additional a day, that's over double what I get, when I say enough for an evening meal, I mean a cheap evening meal.

Additional costs to me personally are lunches, as you can't really prepare your own when living in a hotel, going to a gym/evening entertainment because as one reasonable person here has mentioned - living in a hotel room sucks - you gotta get out or you'll go mad, and I never need to spend as much on these things when at home. (Not to mention they seem to be more expensive in the areas of England where I work than where I live)

I'm actually a little shocked so many people are in favour of companies expecting their workers to sacrifice so much time for such little reimbursement. The impression I'm getting from those that have done it themselves is that it's not great but better that than nothing, which is a fair view, and pretty much how I'm looking at it at the minute, but I still feel there's better deals out there

mulbot

I understand the situation OP- When I say 45 per day,that was extra as the food was paid for already along with flights,hotel,breakfast etc,even the taxi from my door to the airport was sorted-it's a big expectation for a company to have someone virtually give up their life without at least a decent compensation for doing so-It's a difficult thing to do,I'm glad I don't do it anymore

OldMrBrennan83

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deviladvocate

Well luckily the travel is generally only about half the year, what irritates me is that it's often short notice so regardless of plans I've made and haven't booked holidays for (say a concert in the evening) I have to change my plans. Also because I'm never given an actual timeframe of how long I'll be away at a time, it's always just "a fortnight" And the early flights on Monday and late flights on Friday really eating into my weekend.

I have had conversations about changing the way it's done and I'm promised I'll be travelling less and I'll be given more notice etc but those promises tend to not last too long.

mulbot

Do you have the option of saying no the odd time?

Stheno

deviladvocate wrote: »

Well luckily the travel is generally only about half the year, what irritates me is that it's often short notice so regardless of plans I've made and haven't booked holidays for (say a concert in the evening) I have to change my plans. Also because I'm never given an actual timeframe of how long I'll be away at a time, it's always just "a fortnight" And the early flights on Monday and late flights on Friday really eating into my weekend.

I have had conversations about changing the way it's done and I'm promised I'll be travelling less and I'll be given more notice etc but those promises tend to not last too long.

I've had to travel Saturday for Monday and just gotten basic expenses

deviladvocate

Not really, it's usually for one project I'm assigned to and unfortunately this English crowd we do work for have gotten used to me personally. last time I asked to be flown out on a tuesday rather than a Monday because I had plans there were a few higher ups very unhappy about it

I wouldn't mind it at all if there was half decent reimbursement making it worth my while

I do stand up for myself when I feel it's getting over the top and have made it clear to them how I feel about it, I'm not really seeking advice, rather just wanted to see what others opinions on the matter are
(Just checking I'm not being a whiney b**ch

Thoie

I did what you're doing for two years, and it sucked. I didn't get a daily allowance, but could expense dinners, but if dinners were too "expensive" there'd be questions asked. It was kind of miserable, as I spent Friday evenings travelling back, Saturday doing laundry, Sunday packing again for the early flight Monday morning.

I don't have any advice for you, just sympathy, and to let you know your situation isn't terribly unusual.

endagibson

Op, I understand what you're going through. I travel quite a bit too, but at least I get to plan it myself. At least, being based in the North doesn't bring any tax implications. Since I live in Ireland I have developed some tax liability in the UK that I'm in the process of working through.

My advice is to check your contract. It'll probably say that you have to be flexible in relation to your work location and hours. If it does, it's time to become a little less flexible for a bit. Make your own plans for when you're at home and stick to them. Ask your boss for some recognition for your consideration. Not just money, think training, promotion, etc.

StupidLikeAFox

Just to add, in my last company I had to do some travel and your situation does not seem out of the ordinary. Sounds like you're basic living expenses are being covered, which should mean you are saving a bit on food/petrol/commuting at least?

deviladvocate wrote: »

Not really, it's usually for one project I'm assigned to and unfortunately this English crowd we do work for have gotten used to me personally. last time I asked to be flown out on a tuesday rather than a Monday because I had plans there were a few higher ups very unhappy about it

However, with regard to the bolded bit, could you use this as leverage to negotiate a pay rise? Don't mention the travel, but stress that you are a bigger asset to the company now as the client is personally asking for you etc etc

mulbot

StupidLikeAFox wrote: »

Just to add, in my last company I had to do some travel and your situation does not seem out of the ordinary. Sounds like you're basic living expenses are being covered, which should mean you are saving a bit on food/petrol/commuting at least?



However, with regard to the bolded bit, could you use this as leverage to negotiate a pay rise? Don't mention the travel, but stress that you are a bigger asset to the company now as the client is personally asking for you etc etc

You will not save on food,I was lucky in that I got covered by 45 euro extra per day on top of having breakfast and dinner paid but had to buy lunch.Now,if i was barely getting a meal paid like OP is,then it's costing them to get lunch out etc,plus he/she doesn't have the option to make a snack in hotel room,so extra costs there.

You are in a job that requires you to travel to client sites. Sometimes at short notice and sometimes for extended periods of time.
At a minimum all your travel and accommodation expenses plus breakfast and dinner should be covered by your employer. The rule of thumb is that your per diem amount should cover breakfast and dinner in the hotel you are staying in. If not, then you need to negotiate with your employer.
Your contract possibly states you may need to work additional hours if necessary. If you feel that you are working excessive hours above the weekly hours in your contract, then you need to negotiate compensation which could be taking time in lieu.
Keep note of the hours you work each day and any non reimbursement expenses you incur to use as part of your negotiations with your employer. You still need a decent work-life balance. Does your company have a HR manager that you could talk to?
If ultimately you do like your job and want to keep it, make sure you approach your manager or HR in a positive manner with suggestions of a compromise, rather than just having a rant about how bad it is.
I have wife and lots of kids and know how tough it can be to do a lot of travelling, especially at short notice. Employers are generally not bad people and should take your comments and proposals on board.

helimachoptor

Having previously worked in a professional services environment, generally where work would be short notice and could last several weeks we got a per diem, which is basically an allowance on top of everything that you can expense.

It was decided on the cost of living per country so in the states it was 65 euro, spain was 25, UK 30 etc.

With my current company our office is in the UK, i dont travel as much as i used to but we have a corporate amex (our own ones) and we use that for everything, heathrow coffes, oyster top ups etc but generally we're there for a day or 2 so no daily payment however it does happen if you get shipped off to one of the other offices for an extended period

Elessar

That sounds like an awful situation OP. You are dead right that you are not being compensated enough for the amount of travel you do and having to curtail your own plans at short notice. At the very least you should be getting paid a significant premium for that kind of work, and a decent daily stipend for food. If I were you, I'd look for another job. It's possible to earn better money and have a 9-5 job that doesn't involve travel or impact on your personal life at all. I know, I'm in one!

Get out would be my opinion. Your employers are unlikely to change despite their assurances, as you seem to already have realised.

El Tarangu

Op - is the travelling part intrinsic to the field that you work in; as in, is there any chance that you could get a job in the same field, but with less travel?

Stheno wrote: »

I've had to travel Saturday for Monday and just gotten basic expenses

well done you, have a pat on the back for yourself :rolleyes: