Am i right to start questioning this?

LegacyUser

Myself and my sons mum are broken up four years (not married). About 3 months afterwards we came to the following agreement :

€300 per month maintenance, I have him 50% of the time, I collect and drop him back, additionally I take him for 2 weeks every summer. It's all working well and we've great co-operation.

Over the past few years I've been repeatedly asking myself - what am I paying maintainence for. I have our son 50% of the time, I pay all transport costs, 50% of any exceptional stuff like school tours, medicines etc.. and am responsible for all his costs while he is with me - yet I'm contributing €300 towards her 50% of the time. She encounters no costs that aren't halfed and as she isn't working, house is paid for etc..

It's not a matter of affordability but it is €300 per month less that I have to spend on him.

I'm very wary of broaching the topic as while we have a good relationship - I know I'll get defensiveness and don't want to even approach it if I'm being unreasonable.

I've taken the view that what I'm really paying for is an easy life. Do I just accept that ? Is it just a society thing that Dad's are left worse off. For example why should I not be entitled to 50% of childrens allowance - I know I don't have a hope of that but I just don't see any logic.

topmanamillion

You say she's unemployed, so it's simply a question of do you think she'll be able to find the E300?
The reality is those costs need to be covered. It's not as simple as split things 50/50, its based on income.

Magicmatilda

I would imagine that if you ex was to work then you would have to pay half the childcare costs anyway?

Or are you already paying childcare when he is with you?

To be honest you say you have great co operation at the moment and that you have an easy life, but so does your son. His life is made so much better and happier by having patents who have a good relationship. I would say that spending the €300 a month on that is money well spent.

I do understand the frustration but I think you really need to consider everything before you start questioning it.

ChampagnePop

I think she's taking the p*ss, but at the moment you may be better off sticking with the arrangement, and as mentioned above, if the mother starts working what are the implications wit respect to child care costs?

Big Nasty

It's less than €75 / week. Is it worth the hassle arguing over?

FortySeven

You are right to be questioning this op. Anyone who isn't riding this gravy train can see that this is grossly unfair but until men start fighting it there will be no change.

It's up to you what you do. You have an agreement that you no longer seem to agree with. Rocking the boat can be dangerous in these situations. Seek legal advice.

Knine

Who pays for his clothes, shoes food, medical, toiletries, school books, uniform, day trips etc? Do you pay half of all these too?

You said the house is paid for? Do you mean the morgage is paid off or do you think she has a free house because she is not working? Could she go back to work full time or is that not the case because she has your son 50% of the time? You realize that if she is on Social Welfare then she won't see all of that money as it is means tested. Certainly there is 8 weeks of school holidays so you don't have 50% of that. Then there is mid terms, Christmas Holidays, sick days etc.

As kids get older the costs rise especially in the teenage years. Are you claiming the single parent Carer tax allowance as that would offset some of those costs.

Instead of adding up every penny your son costs you, you should count your lucky stars that your son is very happy.

FortySeven

Knine wrote: »

Who pays for his clothes, shoes food, medical, toiletries, school books, uniform, day trips etc? Do you pay half of all these too?

You said the house is paid for? Do you mean the morgage is paid off or do you think she has a free house because she is not working? Could she go back to work full time or is that not the case because she has your son 50% of the time? You realize that if she is on Social Welfare then she won't see all of that money as it is means tested. Certainly there is 8 weeks of school holidays so you don't have 50% of that. Then there is mid terms, Christmas Holidays, sick days etc.

As kids get older the costs rise especially in the teenage years. Are you claiming the single parent Carer tax allowance as that would offset some of those costs.

Instead of adding up every penny your son costs you, you should count your lucky stars that your son is very happy.

Sure, because his sons happiness is directly attributable to the flow of money?

You have some fair points but this argument that he should just suck it up is not adding anything to them. He has every right to question why he is shouldering so much of the cost.

Knine

FortySeven wrote: »

Sure, because his sons happiness is directly attributable to the flow of money?

You have some fair points but this argument that he should just suck it up is not adding anything to them. He has every right to question why he is shouldering so much of the cost.

As a parent I can assure you that €75 is not shouldering so much of the cost. I am not suggesting at all that he should suck it up. It does seem like he is almost sitting there silently seething with a calculator though!

I would also like to know exactly what he sees as having his child %50 of the time is? I presume he is working.

FortySeven

Knine wrote: »

As a parent I can assure you that €75 is not shouldering so much of the cost. I am not suggesting at all that he should suck it up. It does seem like he is almost sitting there silently seething with a calculator though!

I would also like to know exactly what he sees as having his child %50 of the time is? I presume he is working.

Op clearly states he pays half of everything plus maintenance and provides for the child while in his care. If mother is not working I'm guessing medical is covered as are back to school expenses. Transport costs are being wholly sustained by himself and she is further subsidised by child benefit.

There is no defending this, he's being taken for a ride.

Portraying him as a penny pincher or suggesting it is only a small amount is not helpful. Over four years he has handed over nearly 16000. For what?

SB_Part2

FortySeven wrote: »

Op clearly states he pays half of everything plus maintenance and provides for the child while in his care. If mother is not working I'm guessing medical is covered as are back to school expenses. Transport costs are being wholly sustained by himself and she is further subsidised by child benefit.

There is no defending this, he's being taken for a ride.

Portraying him as a penny pincher or suggesting it is only a small amount is not helpful. Over four years he has handed over nearly 16000. For what?

For a roof over his childs head? ESB? Gas? Clothes? Food? Do you think the mother spent it on her herself?

I think you're very biased because of your own situation FortySeven.

FortySeven

SB_Part2 wrote: »

For a roof over his childs head? ESB? Gas? Clothes? Food? Do you think the mother spent it on her herself?

I think you're very biased because of your own situation FortySeven.

I have not mentioned my own situation. It has no bearing on this.

Op is providing half that roof, half that esb Bill, half the food and half of all expenses.

He is then adding 75 euros on top of that half. I ask again. For what?

FortySeven

As for bias. Should we have disclosure on other commenters situations?

Knine

He also states he has his child 50% of the time, then says for only 2 weeks of the summer holidays which can be up to 3 months long! So which is it? If the OP works full time, then how is access shared 50%? Who is on call should the child be sick?

Lol back to school & medical expenses are far from covered from medical cards or welfare. Have you got children? Do you know the costs of school uniforms or books, lunches, trips etc?

The OP is being vague about what exactly 50% access is.

You realize that if the ex is on a single parent payment then the maintenance is offset against this? How much does the child actually see of the money?

I'm sorry but the OP does sound like he is penny pinching. I certainly never think about how much it costs to transport my child.

Over 4 years he has handed over that money to help with the costs of rearing his child.

SB_Part2

FortySeven wrote: »

I have not mentioned my own situation. It has no bearing on this.

Op is providing half that roof, half that esb Bill, half the food and half of all expenses.

He is then adding 75 euros on top of that half. I ask again. For what?

How is he working full time and having the child for 50% of the time? He has the child for 2 weeks of the summer holidays. That's not 50%.

JinkyJackson

Do the social welfare know about you paying her this 300 per month? If so, her income would be cut accordingly. If not, tell them immediately. She is making soft money here

tcif

SB_Part2 wrote: »

For a roof over his childs head? ESB? Gas? Clothes? Food?

All of which the OP is providing for his son the 50% of the time he's with him. I find the posts here saying the OP is being mean about providing for his child because he's questioning the fairness about paying so much over and above his share very unfair. Bear in mind the OP also said what he'd like to be able to do with some of that money, if he could reduce his payments, is spend it on his child himself. Before anyone can say then what difference does it make which of them spends it, maybe it would allow him to take his son on holidays, outings, do fun things together that create lovely memories that every parent wants to share with their child. He's entitled to want that.

SB_Part2 wrote: »

I think you're very biased because of your own situation FortySeven.

I've read the posts from FortySeven you're referring to and I think you're being harsh. His experiences give him every right to feel for other fathers he thinks aren't getting a fair shake and the fact that he has been so open about his situation means it's there for every Boardsie to read and to put their own context on his posts here in light of it.

zoobizoo

I've seen a friend go through something similar but he was paying €1000 a month OP.

You have to ask yourself if

(a) your child will suffer if the money is reduced?
(b) the relationship with your ex will suffer if the amount is reduced?

In terms of (a) - it could be that your child is getting better food / a day out here or there... is it making the mother's life less stressful and therefore having a positive influence.

In terms of (b) - money has a strange effect on people - what way do you think that she will react? Would she have to overly worry about every penny if you weren't paying the money?

Let's say you got the figure down to €200 - saving yourself €3 a day (the cost of a coffee) but it damaged the relationship which affected your child's happiness..... would it be worth it?

What is the value to you of a happy positive relationship?

My pal's maintenance reduced significantly in recent years as I'm sure will yours.

What would it cost you in child minder fees if she went back to work and would you rather your child raised by their mother or in a creche?

I'm not making a judgement either way and ideally you'd be able to have an open and frank discussion about it - but when you're not together, relationships can disintigrate quickly

FortySeven

Knine wrote: »

He also states he has his child 50% of the time, then says for only 2 weeks of the summer holidays which can be up to 3 months long! So which is it? If the OP works full time, then how is access shared 50%? Who is on call should the child be sick?

Lol back to school & medical expenses are far from covered from medical cards or welfare. Have you got children? Do you know the costs of school uniforms or books, lunches, trips etc?

The OP is being vague about what exactly 50% access is.

You realize that if the ex is on a single parent payment then the maintenance is offset against this? How much does the child actually see of the money?

I'm sorry but the OP does sound like he is penny pinching. I certainly never think about how much it costs to transport my child.

Over 4 years he has handed over that money to help with the costs of rearing his child.

Yes, I have two children.

Over 4 years he has halved everything to do with the child , PLUS handed over 75 a week cash. I ask again, for what?

Belittling the poor man for asking a perfectly reasonable question is below the belt in my opinion. He has the child half the time, pays half the costs and then pays more.

You are down to picking into summer holidays and on call parenting for sickness.

This man is living up to his responsibilities and then some. There are plenty single mothers getting a terrible deal that require defending but this does not appear to be one of them.

Knine

tcif wrote: »

All of which the OP is providing for his son the 50% of the time he's with him. I find the posts here saying the OP is being mean about providing for his child because he's questioning the fairness about paying so much over and above his share very unfair. Bear in mind the OP also said what he'd like to be able to do with some of that money, if he could reduce his payments, is spend it on his child himself. Before anyone can say then what difference does it make which of them spends it, maybe it would allow him to take his son on holidays, outings, do fun things together that create lovely memories that every parent wants to share with their child. He's entitled to want that.



I've read the posts from FortySeven you're referring to and I think you're being harsh. His experiences give him every right to feel for other fathers he thinks aren't getting a fair shake and the fact that he has been so open about his situation means it's there for every Boardsie to read and to put their own context on his posts here in light of it.

I have not read FortySeven's posts. I don't think you should actually project your own situation onto someone elses.

50% of the time his son is with him does not actually seem to add up given what the OP had said.

tcif

Knine wrote: »

I have not read FortySeven's posts. I don't think you should actually project your own situation onto someone elses.

50% of the time his son is with him does not actually seem to add up given what the OP had said.

I'm not the one projecting - that was SB_Part2, who brought FortySeven's previous posts into the equation and I was saying I thought that was wrong.

And in the OP's original post he wrote "I have him 50% of the time".

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5

Could you approach it from the angle of putting the money into a savings account for your son, for when he gets to college age or whatever? From what you've described it does sound unfair (though maybe it's not that black and white, are you sure her house is free, I know unemployed single mothers paying rent or topping up their RA? Do you go halves on things like clothes, school lunches etc? If you're working full time and she's not she may well be making a fair contribution proportionately rather than in absolute terms). But like you say the priority is to keep things friendly, so maybe putting it into a savings account could be a compromise?

LegacyUser

seekingopinions wrote: »

€300 per month maintenance, I have him 50% of the time, I collect and drop him back, additionally I take him for 2 weeks every summer. It's all working well and we've great co-operation.

Can you clear this bit up OP? You say you have him 50% of the time but also have him 2 weeks for the summer. Surely if you have 50% of the time then that's 50% of time including holidays?

If he is in school is he coming and staying the night at yours during the week? You can only make the argument that he is with you 50% of the time if he is indeed staying overnight at yours for half the week or for a full week every other week otherwise the money is going towards putting a roof over his head and paying light and heat etc etc

Knine

tcif wrote: »

I'm not the one projecting - that was SB_Part2, who brought FortySeven's previous posts into the equation and I was saying I thought that was wrong.

And in the OP's original post he wrote "I have him 50% of the time".

That is what I meant! I know you are not! I'm not sure how he can have his child 50% & work full time!

tcif

Knine wrote: »

That is what I meant! I know you are not!

Sorry, Knine, I misunderstood and I'd hate anyone to think I'd drag anyone's past posts about themselves up!

ChampagnePop

I think you'll need to clear up the 50% sharing thing OP, do you work part time?
How do you organise childcare when you have him and work?

Maybe you need to ask your child's mother on a break down of how the 300e is spent.

LegacyUser

Can I ask how you reached the agreement of 300 pm and 50% with you.

The reason I ask is you may have reached this agreement between yourselves. If you change it she may go to court over it this could result in increased payments also. I have an agreement like yours worked out and pay over 200 a week for 2 kids. Also get the 2 weeks over the summer. Just to clear this up this is 2 weeks where i can head abroad with them. She has the same. Maybe it gives some clarity.

if the 300pm is not causing a large financial difficulty for you I would continue to pay it. The bottom line is most parents who pay think they are getting fleeced (mostly paranoia i may add)

You do not want to sour the relationship with the mother. There is also a seperation forum on here and it might be wise to post there too