New signs on the R122 road near St. margarets

Michael1968

Hi does anybody know what these signs mean it's a square box with a black circle inside on a yellow background. These signs appeared about 3weeks ago...thanks

Irish Steve

from comments in other places, they are alternative route markers that are designed to be followed in the event of a major incident on the motorways, the idea being to get people back on to the motorway if there's been some sort of incident that has caused a closure of part of the motorway.

Michael1968

Irish Steve wrote: »

from comments in other places, they are alternative route markers that are designed to be followed in the event of a major incident on the motorways, the idea being to get people back on to the motorway if there's been some sort of incident that has caused a closure of part of the motorway.

Thanks for your reply.

January

Also, they didn't appear about three weeks ago, they're there yonks now, possibly nearly 18 months.

January

January wrote: »

Also, they didn't appear about three weeks ago, they're there yonks now, possibly nearly 18 months.

I could have swore I saw them putting them up three weeks ago there and just outside Liffey valley as well.

Michael1968

January wrote: »

Also, they didn't appear about three weeks ago, they're there yonks now, possibly nearly 18 months.

I live in the area where the signs are.these signs are only recently erected.

Dardania

Clever idea to have these pre planned. Are they widely in the rules of the road, or do they have some signage to roll out when needed?

January

The ones up around Tyrellstown and out towards the airport/M2 road have definitely been up a lot longer than 3 weeks.

Michael1968

January wrote: »

The ones up around Tyrellstown and out towards the airport/M2 road have definitely been up a lot longer than 3 weeks.

Maybe other areas are getting priority.

Michael1968

Dardania wrote: »

Clever idea to have these pre planned. Are they widely in the rules of the road, or do they have some signage to roll out when needed?

I do not know the answer to your question. Will check the web.

GM228

Dardania wrote: »

Clever idea to have these pre planned. Are they widely in the rules of the road, or do they have some signage to roll out when needed?

The signs are not in the rules of the road.

The signage used when needed will be via the electronic boards on the M50 indicating the appropriate symbol to follow as each diversionary route has a different symbol, for example Tyrellstown I believe has a black square whilst Liffey Valley has a black triangle etc.

The are common in other countries I believe, each route will have a different type of symbol.

Some diversion routes have had them installed only recently, but others such as the N2 and Tyrellstown diversion has had them since mid 2015.

http://www.thejournal.ie/m50-emergency-symbols-2763119-May2016/

murphaph

The "follow symbol for" signs are common in the UK and I remember seeing them at the M7 M9 split in the Republic for the first time like 20 years ago.

Over here the signs are Ux eg U4 which I followed late on Friday evening as the A100 was closed southbound. The U stands for diversion in German.

plodder

GM228 wrote: »

The are common in other countries I believe, each route will have a different type of symbol.

Only the UK, and now us, use these hieroglyphics.. Why do we have to copy every daft idea?

Now, if only there was an existing system of symbols that is easily communicated visually and by sound, and which we could teach to children from a young age at school ...

Seriously, what is the idea? Why not letters and numbers? How is it going to be called out on the radio? "Please follow the upside down yellow triangle on a black background"..

Over here the signs are Ux eg U4 which I followed late on Friday evening as the A100 was closed southbound. The U stands for diversion in German.

Used them years ago too. If I'm not mistaken every stretch of autobahn has at least one diversion route mapped out and marked with those discrete U signs. I would have thought something similar could've been done here using the same idea with D (for diversion) signs. You would often hear announcements in Germany on the radio - motorway blocked, leave at exit blah and follow the U3 signs or whatever. Ours is not to wonder why ...

ThisRegard

Michael1968 wrote: »

Maybe other areas are getting priority.

Tyrrelstown is right on the N2-N3 link road which is the main relief road between Ballymun/Finglas and Blanchardstown on the M50 so makes sense to do that road first. Last time there was a major problem on the M50 in the evening it seemed to work really well, the alternative route was really busy.

Red Kev

Madness that it isn't numbered. Symbols of that complexity don't work when driving at normal road speeds . You need easily and quickly recognizable symbols like letters and numbers.

Just watch the James May segment on Top Gear when he interviewed the lady who designed the motorway signs and road signs back in the 60s to understand what it's all about.

Germany uses numbers, France uses city names "bis Paris", we use something you find in an IQ test.

plodder

It reminds me of this

Red Kev

These are the German ones, you can also find them on decent maps and every proper Sat-Nav system. In this example Route U79 would be gong one direction (e.g. Dortmund) and Route U95 another (e.g. Hamburg). Logical and easy to follow.







This is the French equivalent; it's more geared up to giving more scenic alternative routes for people going on holiday as an alternative to using motorways, but it performs the same function and is again, logical and easy to understand.







It's a wonder they just didn't do this here.....:mad:

plodder

If that's what they did in the UK twenty years ago, then that's what we'd be rolling out here today ...

plodder

So, the NTA are going gung-ho with these symbols. There's an article in today's Irish Times.

Squares, triangles, circles, diamonds: What are the new M50 signs all about?

Still think it was lazy copy-cat'ism to just replicate what they do in the UK as opposed to the much simpler systems like in Germany.

In 2002 new traffic signs featuring junction numbers and inner as well as outer circles were scrapped after then minister for transport Séamus Brennan said motorists were bewildered. Up to 500,000 glossy brochures sent to homes in the greater Dublin area illustrating the new inner and outer orbital routes with 70 junction numbers were binned.

Another daft initiative - an attempt to imagine a ring road infrastructure into existence

L1011

plodder wrote: »

Another daft initiative - an attempt to imagine a ring road infrastructure into existence

You mean the one that was reintroduced quite rapidly and is still signed?

https://www.dublincity.ie/sites/default/files/content//RoadsandTraffic/Documents/orbital_map.pdf

plodder

L1011 wrote: »

You mean the one that was reintroduced quite rapidly and is still signed?

https://www.dublincity.ie/sites/default/files/content//RoadsandTraffic/Documents/orbital_map.pdf

Yep, that one.

Hurrache

plodder wrote: »

Squares, triangles, circles, diamonds: What are the new M50 signs all about?

New road signs?!? They've been around a few years at this point, and are easy to follow.

plodder

Hurrache wrote: »

New road signs?!? They've been around a few years at this point, and are easy to follow.

Yes, the thread is going since 2016, and as the article says ..

First announced in November 2016, the emergency diversion routes had to be agreed with Dublin’s local authorities in a process that took more than two years.

Maybe they are easy to follow (I haven't had to yet), but they are very hard to communicate.

It's funny, the roman alphabet has been around a long time; it's quite versatile and allows you to communicate a lot of different things, quite clearly :pac: Same goes for the arabic system of numerals. I believe they can even be combined into letters and numbers Why did we need to invent something new ??

I know we just copied the UK, but I'm genuinely interested to know why they designed the system like this.

Phileas Frog

These signs were on the old N7/N8 about 20 years ago. It's only since they appeared in Dublin that ye actually noticed?

Hurrache

Phileas Frog wrote: »

These signs were on the old N7/N8 about 20 years ago. It's only since they appeared in Dublin that ye actually noticed?

I think you're talking about different ones?

Phileas Frog

Hurrache wrote: »

I think you're talking about different ones?

No, exactly the same. They used to show you back roads around Abbeyleix etc for example, before the motorways existed

Carawaystick

I presume there has been an analysis on the increased risk to vulnerable road users using the non-motorway roads when the motorway traffic is routed onto these roads? ....

IE 222

Speaking of road signs I never understood why old national roads were renamed into 3 digit regional roads. Why weren't they kept simple and easy to find as alternative routes.

For instance, learner drivers aren't meant to use motorways but should one need to travel Dublin to Cork it's nearly impossible to find the regional road unless they already know the route. All road signage for your always directs you to the motorways rather offering the alternative routing also. There is very little on the old N roads that will direct you to a city.

L1011

IE 222 wrote: »

Speaking of road signs I never understood why old national roads were renamed into 3 digit regional roads. Why weren't they kept simple and easy to find as alternative routes.

Because they legally had to be - the motorway *is* the national route under motorway restrictions.

As for the learners issue - they'd need to know the route number - which changes part-way remember - anyway to use the old road in your scenario.

XPS_Zero

plodder wrote: »

Yes, the thread is going since 2016, and as the article says ..

Maybe they are easy to follow (I haven't had to yet), but they are very hard to communicate.

It's funny, the roman alphabet has been around a long time; it's quite versatile and allows you to communicate a lot of different things, quite clearly :pac: Same goes for the arabic system of numerals. I believe they can even be combined into letters and numbers Why did we need to invent something new ??

I know we just copied the UK, but I'm genuinely interested to know why they designed the system like this.

We never copy other countries on decent bloody things do we? Can we not copy them on the NHS?



No no...Dev and the Cardinal said that was evil because it might lead to sex education (seriously, no seriously that's the reason they gave for why we didn't also do an NHS at the time) ...we'll follow their weird road signs instead.