Irish Championship format poll

cdeb

Following a suggestion in the thread on the Irish Championships, here's a quick poll on suggested format.

Brief details on the options are below. You can vote for more than one choice - in particular, the questions of refusing a player entry if it evens up the numbers, and of allowing guest foreign players as has happened before, are separate questions.

Obviously this poll is relatively meaningless here; it'd be interesting to see what all 1900+ players thought. I'm assuming the tournament has to be a full nine days.

So, would you prefer -
Over 1900 - wildcards allowed
This is the current format

Over 2100 - wildcards allowed
Same thing, just upping the rating floor

Over 1900 - no wildcards, no exceptions
The sodacat11 option

Over 2100 - no wildcards, no exceptions
Again, same thing, just upping the rating flooe

All-play-all groups of 10
Similar to the old Drogheda format - the top ten entrants by rating are in the one group, and only they can become Irish champion. (The reigning champion should always be included here even if their rating is too low). The next ten entrants play in Group B. If there's, say, 35 entries (!), this would be two groups of 10 and one group of 15. This doesn't really need a floor as the groups help split things - so a 1200 could enter if they want. You could have it that the winner of any one group is allowed play up the next year.

Entry by invite only based on tournament winners in the past year
Along the lines of the suggestion in the thread of Highest Irish placed in the U19 Champion, Irish Open, Bunratty (or other) Masters, Women's Champion, Leinster Champion, Munster Champion, Connaught Champion and Ulster Champion

Then separate yes/no questions -

Should the lowest-rated entrant be forced to withdraw if there's an odd number of entrants?

and

Should foreign players be allowed to enter to increase the tournament strength? The Irish champion would be the highest-rated Irish finisher

See what happens!

cdeb

Allow foreign players?

Poll added - votes are public, and the poll will be open for the entire of July.

brilliantboy

What is the aim of the Irish Championships?

L1m1tless

I would vote Strictly over 2000 (2000 like most of the masters sections in other tournaments)

Exceptions:
The winner of the lower section (1500-2000) from the previous year getting an invite
One wildcard 1800-2000 if the numbers are odd

Nikita999

over 2000 ideally

ComDubh

Entry by invite only - tournament winners in previous year

A point well worth noting I think is this. Normally for an IM norm, "at least 2 federations other than that of the title applicant must be included." However there are a number of exemptions, one being "the final stage of the national men’s (or open) championship and also the national women’s championship."

An all-play-all Irish Championship with possibilities for norms would be something special, even as an experiment.

DmanDmythDledge

Strictly over 2100 - no exceptions

It would be a good format but I feel such a format would limit the tournament to elite players and exclude appox 2100s, who deserve to compete in the Irish Championships.

The cut off should be 2000 rating and strictly adhered to. Allowing players within a certain rating to play upwards is fine for weekender tournaments but as this tournament in the National Championships there needs to be cut-off point.

zeitnot

Allow foreign players?

brilliantboy wrote: »

What is the aim of the Irish Championships?

What's the aim of any championship in any sport or game?

Nikita999

well done to Stephen Jessell!! congraulations, well earned and deserved. A new Irish champion!

brilliantboy

zeitnot wrote: »

What's the aim of any championship in any sport or game?

Is "to determine a champion" the answer you're expecting?
FIFA could save a lot of people a lot of time and effort if they just invited the same 8 or so nations with a realistic chance of winning to the World Cup every 4 years, and hosting it in a major European or South American location. But the organization has numerous other goals such as growing the game and making a buck.

Similarly, determining a worthy Irish chess champion is a simple enough matter, but if the membership of the ICU decides they want to use the flagship event to achieve additional aims beyond choosing a champion then it's within their prerogative to do so.

That's why I asked the question, what is the aim of the Irish Championship?

zeitnot

Allow foreign players?

brilliantboy wrote: »

Is "to determine a champion" the answer you're expecting?
FIFA could save a lot of people a lot of time and effort if they just invited the same 8 or so nations with a realistic chance of winning to the World Cup

No, actually: determining a champion in any game or sport is just one aspect of it. There's also the desire to have a well-contested competition that showcases the game and properly tests whoever the champion is over enough high-quality games. Handing the trophy to the highest-rated player or having a team play three matches doesn't accomplish that.

brilliantboy wrote: »

Similarly, determining a worthy Irish chess champion is a simple enough matter, but if the membership of the ICU decides they want to use the flagship event to achieve additional aims beyond choosing a champion then it's within their prerogative to do so.

There's a switch here from "whether it's a good idea" to "whether the ICU have the prerogative". If the ICU wants to make it a norm tournament with fewer requirements or a training tournament for juniors or a one-day rapid event, they have the prerogative. Doesn't make any of those things a good idea. What's wrong with making an excellent championship the priority? In some of these discussions it seems an afterthought.

brilliantboy

zeitnot wrote: »

There's a switch here from "whether it's a good idea" to "whether the ICU have the prerogative". If the ICU wants to make it a norm tournament with fewer requirements or a training tournament for juniors or a one-day rapid event, they have the prerogative. Doesn't make any of those things a good idea. What's wrong with making an excellent championship the priority? In some of these discussions it seems an afterthought.

A good idea according to who? An excellent championship according to who?

I mean we could hold an Irish Championship on a luxury European resort, with a 1950 minimum rating, no kids allowed, generous grading prizes, free bar, breaks to watch the football etc. and it would be an excellent championship. But what does it achieve for the majority of the ICU membership?

zeitnot

Allow foreign players?

brilliantboy wrote: »

A good idea according to who? An excellent championship according to who?

Me, for one (on both questions). Others may differ. By all means let's put it to a vote.

brilliantboy wrote: »

I mean we could hold an Irish Championship on a luxury European resort, with a 1950 minimum rating, no kids allowed, generous grading prizes, free bar, breaks to watch the football etc. and it would be an excellent championship.

Now you're talking!

brilliantboy wrote: »

But what does it achieve for the majority of the ICU membership?

What do you mean by "achieve"?

You can't mean "experience by personal participation" as that would rule out most ICU activities. The Irish Junior Championships wouldn't "achieve" anything for players over the age limit. Still seems like a good idea to hold the event.