Personal Actions Versus Musical Appreciation

Motley Crue

So, I heard these two guys talking recently, about Beck. It doesn't really matter who they were talking about, but we could use this example, as they were arguing about the fact that one wouldn't go and see him because he was a known Scientologist. The other said that his personal beliefs and actions are totally separate to his musical output and that this shouldn't make a difference in going to one of his concerts. The counter argument to that was that because he was a musician he draws from his own personal experiences to create his work and therefore there's a strong connection between the musician and his personality.

It got me thinking, where do you draw the line? Are there musicians that you would listen too (or not) based on their actions outside music? If a musician kills someone but has spent years making great albums that you love, would you continue to listen to them? Would you only stop listening to future recordings after the act?

I'd love to know people's thoughts on this.

Mushy

Depends on the personality of the person whether they'll get over the musicians personal beliefs.

I still enjoy EODM, but i'd very much be opposed to Jessies views on guns etc. I can imagine Josh being the same, and I'd be the first to admit that I find much of his music beyond reproach.

This happened a lot when Lost Prophets lad was in court. I never enjoyed them, but you'd read the debate online about whether you should listen to the music. I'd say still listen if you enjoy, but if they started singing about dodgy topics then I'd start to avoid.

Angron

Yeah, I'd kinda feel the same as Mushy. I've had a friend complain to me that I refuse to listen to National Socialist Black Metal bands. He said I'm missing out on some great sounding music, but I don't care, I'm not going to listen to a bunch of white supremacists wailing about "inferior races" or some crap like that.

I do listen to a lot of stuff though where I don't necessarily agree with the views of band members (if I didn't, there'd probably only
be a handful of black metal I'd be able to listen to), but there is a point I'll draw the line.

Mr. CooL ICE

Interesting topic.

I was never a big fan of Iced Earth, but when they started getting all patriotic with their lyrics after 911, I was turned right off them.

After Phil Anselmo drunkenly exposed himself as a big racist lover of white wine, Pantera became a little tainted to me. Listening to the lyrics of something like Rise does make me feel a little uneasy as it could be interpreted in many ways. Pantera have many more songs than that where that could be the case though.

After being disappointed when St Anger came out, I went to see Some Kind Of Monster in cinema and walked out hating Metallica. Although I like to spin RTL and MOP every now and then, I can't help but dislike them for being such out of touch, greedy, money-grabbing bastards. However, I like Kiss and am a big fan of Gene Simmons, so my views on Metallica might make me seem hypocritical, but Kiss and Metallica are worlds apart in their attitude.

El Tarangu

On the specific Beck/Scientology point - I suppose that, given that Beck supports Scientology financially (I assume he does), going to see Beck live could be indirectly financing Scientology.

I suppose it depends how much you like Beck, and how much you dislike Scientology. I don't think it would bother me, personally.

Links234

It's an odd one alright, and I'm deeply inconsistent on the issue too. I haven't listened to Austrian Death Machine since frontman Tim Lambesis tried to hire a hitman to kill his wife, won't listen to Burzum, yet I'll listen to Dissection. I don't know, some horrible people made some great music. Jimmy Page had a 14 year old kidnapped, but Kashmir is a damn good song. Sometimes it seems like everyone who's anyone is some form of piece of **** or another.

In the case of Beck and Scientology, well I don't really listen to Beck, but I do like Tom Cruise movies, so *shrug* is going to see his movies in some way funding the cult?

Somnus

It's a tricky one from a moral stand point all right. While I would understand people having different opinions, what I don't agree on is someone putting you down for listening to an artist with questionable/bad associations.

It came up a lot during the Lost Prophets incident. I'll say then what I said now. Being a fan of their music, even after the revelation, does not mean you condone or agree with what they have done.

I like some of Varg Vikernes Burzum material. Does that mean I condone him murdering someone? No. But that doesn't make his work any less good in my eyes. It might be different if he was literally telling you to murder people/glorifying/justifying it. But otherwise I don't personally see it as a problem.

It is a very interesting discussion all the same.

Lyaiera

I think good art is just that, and a person's beliefs, even if they're represented in the art, or even if it's intentionally designed as propaganda comes in second to an appreciation of the work. A huge amount of people read Hitler's speeches, out of curiousity, to analyse his rhetoric, and in many ways because his speeches are good, and impacting. Similar happens with Polanski and Woody Allen. For myself, even beyond liking a lot of the ealry Norwegian black metal, I've quite like some outright NSBM. Not just Graveland type NSBM, but active within a local neo-nazi scene, plays at neo-nazi events type NSBM.

My issue is financially supporting these people. Knowing it will go to them, people I do not like, and it will be used to fuel hatred.

mayordenis

I think I take it on a case by case basic, like most above. What I would add though is that I think there's a secondary force at work, in that I struggle to enjoy music by people who I dislike.
Using the metallica example, (and forget that their new music is hot trash) I just don't think I could start to enjoy a new album of their's, I think I'd have too much bias against it to give it any sort of fair listen.

I'd also echo the fact that unless it's something extremely hateful or extremely sketchy I wouldn't hold it against someone for listening to their music, again the Lost Prophets example is apt.

Also worth remembering that it's often only 1 or 2 members of these bands that we find unagreeable, harsh to tarnish someone's career on the back of the action of others.

bnt

If you're a bassist, you've probably heard of Billy Sheehan, through his work with Mr. Big, David Lee Roth, Talas, Winery Dogs and many more projects and session gigs - and he's also in to Scientology long-term. In 2008 he came out to protest against a protest against Scientology:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQZxv1kdrvY

Is he still a good bassist? Yes. Listening to what he does on the instrument does not constitute an endorsement of his lifestyle.

Passenger

bnt wrote: »

If you're a bassist, you've probably heard of Billy Sheehan, through his work with Mr. Big, David Lee Roth, Talas, Winery Dogs and many more projects and session gigs - and he's also in to Scientology long-term. In 2008 he came out to protest against a protest against Scientology:

Is he still a good bassist? Yes. Listening to what he does on the instrument does not constitute an endorsement of his lifestyle.

Billy would be one of mine too. I've watched countless Bass tutorials of his since my teens and hundreds of other performances of Billy's and even seen him perform live a few times too and I still can't get my head around how such a humble and (what appears like) down-to-earth individual would subscribe to that organization. Granted he "signed up" very young and would have been very impressionable at that age and as many ex-members have recounted that once they get you in the door then that's it. Seen those videos before and there's an unsettling placidity about Billy's demeanour.