URSUS - Repair or Replace

FeelTheBern

Part time farming. Tractor for last 20 years is a 2 wd Ursus 4512 - now almost 30 years old. No front loader. Heaviest work would be rear Nugent shear grab for silage during winter, moving bales of silage and topping.

Wouldnt have lot of work, always great to start and never gave much bother but issues starting to mount up now. Seems to be problem with oil/hydraulics - rams find it hard to lift full shear grab last year, pressure drops in grab if oil not pumping all the time, sometimes hard to switch between oil and normal lift arm. Brakes need to be looked at (no brake when press then hard brake), need to turn tractor off first before PTO can be engaged and few other bits.

Would love to replace with tractor with front loader but hoping to borrow next year to build shed under TAMS so might have some money to spend now but don't want to borrow money that would need to get newish replacement (which I understand would prob be 30k plus???).

Is the only option to pay for repairs now and wait it out for few more years to borrow to buy something fresh then? I've little to no mechanical ability so think spending 10k or so might only buy me trouble as opposed to a reasonable upgrade?

Miname

I'm no mechanic but the brakes and hydraulics and all mightn't be that big of a problem , get it checked out its probably a simple enough fix. Now sit yourself down and try to rationalise spending 30k on a machine to feed in a bit of silage and do a bit of topping.

Sam Kade

Why would you have to replace with a €30k tractor, plenty decent secondhand tractors out there for 10-15k. I know that you will have to do a bit of looking to find a good one but they are there.

FeelTheBern

Miname wrote: »

I'm no mechanic but the brakes and hydraulics and all mightn't be that big of a problem , get it checked out its probably a simple enough fix. Now sit yourself down and try to rationalise spending 30k on a machine to feed in a bit of silage and do a bit of topping.

That's very fair point to make. But think have to progress things too. If my father hadn't spent to buy the Ursus we still have the 135 so no shear grab for the last 20 years (which is a great machine).

If I had tractor with front loader could draw two bales at time, stack bales and also feed pit silage to dry cows at same time as good quality bales to younger cattle (at moment one grab is on for the winter it stays on!) so save on meal.

But most likely outcome for now anyway is to try to fix up the current tractor and keep going like you say.

FeelTheBern

Sam Kade wrote: »

Why would you have to replace with a €30k tractor, plenty decent secondhand tractors out there for 10-15k. I know that you will have to do a bit of looking to find a good one but they are there.

I suppose it's the concern that what I'd get for that kind of money would be nearly as old as my own and might have more hardship got and have its own problems. Working as well so reliability would be big thing - and no mechanical knowledge so might find it hard to know what to look out for when buying.

Wouldn't really need a big tractor and no need for 4 wheel drive really other than for supporting the grab.

bogman_bass

A 16 or 17 year old tractor around 90hp with a loader could bet got for 20k and would still be an upgrade.

bullnuts

bogman_bass wrote: »

A 16 or 17 year old tractor around 90hp with a loader could bet got for 20k and would still be an upgrade.

Get a skidsteer 6-8 k for loader work around yard and fix up your ursus for topping and that ! Skidsteer will take sheargrab also great for tight yards and cleaning sheds ! A bale trailer pulled by the ursus and load with the skidsteer no problem when ground is good ! You need a good tractor for loader work and that's up on 20k worth

lakill Farm

I know a lad selling a 4514 (4wd version) Its a solid tractor. always stored in a shed.

12K would buy it max and 2/3k for a loader. It never had a loader on it.

And sell on the 4512.

Ill get more details for you if you want

Suckler

Sam Kade wrote: »

Why would you have to replace with a €30k tractor, plenty decent secondhand tractors out there for 10-15k. I know that you will have to do a bit of looking to find a good one but they are there.

This.

If you still need a loader option; we picked up an old Matbro for 5K and had the hydraulics and brakes done recently for 1K. Matbro's aren't everyones cup of tea, but for us they do the job and are easy to maintain. Plenty of other options out there if you want to spend a bit more for a fresher machine, but you'll still have most of that 30K in your back pocket.

Buford T. Justice XIX

FeelTheBern wrote: »

That's very fair point to make. But think have to progress things too. If my father hadn't spent to buy the Ursus we still have the 135 so no shear grab for the last 20 years (which is a great machine).

If I had tractor with front loader could draw two bales at time, stack bales and also feed pit silage to dry cows at same time as good quality bales to younger cattle (at moment one grab is on for the winter it stays on!) so save on meal.

But most likely outcome for now anyway is to try to fix up the current tractor and keep going like you say.

Why can't you feed bales with the rear grab?

I used do it all the time here on rough ground bringing in the bale, back up, out and cut the plastic and netting and pull to the front, tilt the grab down and open the grab and pull the plastic off into the grab and pull out with the plastic and netting in the grab.

You may need weights on the front but it's doable.

Did you get a mechanic or someone that knows a bit about machinery to have a look at your own, there might not be much wrong with it that a grand or even less might sort?

Nekarsulm

Here is an older thread about your model of Ursus.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056686698

Or this looks like a decent outfit if you were committed to changing.

https://www.donedeal.ie/tractors-for-sale/case-895-xl-with-loader/12547987

FeelTheBern

bullnuts wrote: »

Get a skidsteer 6-8 k for loader work around yard and fix up your ursus for topping and that ! Skidsteer will take sheargrab also great for tight yards and cleaning sheds ! A bale trailer pulled by the ursus and load with the skidsteer no problem when ground is good ! You need a good tractor for loader work and that's up on 20k worth

Would a skidsteer be big enough to lift or stack fusion silage bale safely?

FeelTheBern

lakill Farm wrote: »

I know a lad selling a 4514 (4wd version) Its a solid tractor. always stored in a shed.

12K would buy it max and 2/3k for a loader. It never had a loader on it.

And sell on the 4512.

Ill get more details for you if you want

Thanks - going to get mechanic out first at the weekend to have a look at our own tractor to see what he thinks - partic about the hydraulics - and will let you know. Do you know is a 4514 just a 4wd version of the 4512 or is it a bigger more powerful tractor?

FeelTheBern

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

Why can't you feed bales with the rear grab?

I used do it all the time here on rough ground bringing in the bale, back up, out and cut the plastic and netting and pull to the front, tilt the grab down and open the grab and pull the plastic off into the grab and pull out with the plastic and netting in the grab.

You may need weights on the front but it's doable.

Did you get a mechanic or someone that knows a bit about machinery to have a look at your own, there might not be much wrong with it that a grand or even less might sort?

Our shear grab just goes up and down - not like fully moveable rear version of front loader so don't think would manage to grab and lift round bale? Front end would be very light or even bouncing with full grab of silage on back anyway - maybe more weight on front answer for that. Going to try to get mech to look at our own this weekend.

FeelTheBern

Suckler wrote: »

This.

If you still need a loader option; we picked up an old Matbro for 5K and had the hydraulics and brakes done recently for 1K. Matbro's aren't everyones cup of tea, but for us they do the job and are easy to maintain. Plenty of other options out there if you want to spend a bit more for a fresher machine, but you'll still have most of that 30K in your back pocket.[/quote

Thanks - Maybe loader good idea. Heaviest work we'd have would be the silage - only thing is then have two older machines on the go instead of one!

SilverKrest

For what its worth the pto problem is easy fixed its either too much free play on clutch pedal or dual clutch needs 3 bolts adjusted. a 10 minute job for a mechanic, its probably not good for starter motor to have pto switched on with something attached.

FeelTheBern

Nekarsulm wrote: »

Here is an older thread about your model of Ursus.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056686698

Or this looks like a decent outfit if you were committed to changing.

https://www.donedeal.ie/tractors-for-sale/case-895-xl-with-loader/12547987

Thanks - does anyone think would be an option to put a front loader on my tractor or would it be just too much for it? Don't do much year round but would be for drawing/stacking feeding bales and a shear grab I suppose.

Buford T. Justice XIX

FeelTheBern wrote: »

Thanks - does anyone think would be an option to put a front loader on my tractor or would it be just too much for it? Don't do much year round but would be for drawing/stacking feeding bales and a shear grab I suppose.

I have one with a loader on. It doesn't do much work bar lifting fert bag and hay and straw for the dry stock but on concrete yard she would do it no bother .

Nekarsulm

If you get the hydraulics sorted, no reason why not. Especially if the Ursus mounting points are identical to a massey . Lots of S/H loaders for sale. If you are lifting fusion type bales, a 2wd would need to be used on hard standing or concrete.

Something like this, you should be able to find brackets for it fairly easily.
https://www.donedeal.ie/tractors-for-sale/farmhand-front-loader-complete-with-tractor-attach/12511620

FeelTheBern

Nekarsulm wrote: »

If you get the hydraulics sorted, no reason why not. Especially if the Ursus mounting points are identical to a massey . Lots of S/H loaders for sale. If you are lifting fusion type bales, a 2wd would need to be used on hard standing or concrete.

Something like this, you should be able to find brackets for it fairly easily.
https://www.donedeal.ie/tractors-for-sale/farmhand-front-loader-complete-with-tractor-attach/12511620

Would just be stacking and feeding on gravel and concrete. Presume would be too much to ask to draw in bales on front loader so would be drawing in one at time and then stacking in yard?

If I held onto the rear mounted Nugent shear grab, would it be possible to have front loader and the rear shear grab on tractor at same time in winter so could fodder mixture of bales and pit - or would that cause problem for hydraulics switching between the two?

White Clover

Op, I would say it wouldn't cost an arm and a leg to sort the brakes and hydraulics on the ursus. She'd be good for a few years again. You could also pick up something handy like a massey 30e loader for feeding. Stick a shear grab on it and it would handle the bales no bother as well. For 5 or 6K you would be well set up with a back up feeding outfit in the yard in the event of a breakdown/puncture.

FeelTheBern

Thanks for all advice!

Thinking so that either way should fix up current tractor and then look at either getting front loader for that or else look at buying separate digger or loader for feeding. Neighbour has JCB 2cx or maybe more older options like MF 30e - would they still be reliable at those ages???

Nekarsulm

FeelTheBern wrote: »

Thanks for all advice!

Thinking so that either way should fix up current tractor and then look at either getting front loader for that or else look at buying separate digger or loader for feeding. Neighbour has JCB 2cx or maybe more older options like MF 30e - would they still be reliable at those ages???

On the whole, they are very reliable. More so then a clutch machine. If the engine starts crisply, and the brakes are good, that's half the battle. The torque should be able to spin the back wheels when you are pushing against something solid in the two lowset gears ( like a tree or silage out wall)
Check it feels as lively in forward as reverse, and try lifting two half ton bags to check the pump is not worn.

mf240

I'd trade it in for a reasonably fresh 4wd tractor and loader. One good yoke that's reliable is better than two older yokes.

White Clover

mf240 wrote: »

I'd trade it in for a reasonably fresh 4wd tractor and loader. One good yoke that's reliable is better than two older yokes.

I wouldn't agree mf. A well maintained older tractor that you know would be as reliable as a newer one. Always handy to have a plan b.too.

Willfarman

To buy low hour nice fresh good tractor you really have to move north of 25k and even then Murphy's law still applies. Give me two small Money "classics" any day

Grueller

Willfarman wrote: »

To buy low hour nice fresh good tractor you really have to move north of 25k and even then Murphy's law still applies. Give me two small Money "classics" any day

Kind of have one of each here. Mind you the "newer" one is 15 now. The older one is 43 though.

FeelTheBern

Nekarsulm wrote: »

On the whole, they are very reliable. More so then a clutch machine. If the engine starts crisply, and the brakes are good, that's half the battle. The torque should be able to spin the back wheels when you are pushing against something solid in the two lowset gears ( like a tree or silage out wall)
Check it feels as lively in forward as reverse, and try lifting two half ton bags to check the pump is not worn.

Thanks. Think idea of buying a loader for reasonable money makes a lot of sense. Really hardest work on my tractor is feeding silage over winter and reason I wanted front loader really for feeding and stacking bales - so a separate loader could cover all those.

If I was buying would like to be spending 6 to 8k range if that was possible. see people suggesting MF 30e and 50h - is there anything else I should be looking out for? And would the money above buy a reasonably sound model of any of these?

Nekarsulm

https://www.donedeal.ie/all?words=massey%2050hx&area=Ireland

Something like this would be a great tool for feeding and loading. Strong enough construction to shake a round bale to bits and then push it in. That kind of action is beyond many aftermarket loaders on tractors. And it has 4wd and a 4 in 1 bucket. Both great things to have. The 4 in 1 bucket will allow you grab a round bale and carry it to the shed, and when the wrap and net is removed, allow you grab lumps off the bale and tear it apart. Fierce handy for cleaning up waste etc as well.

As far as I know, the "e" on a 30e etc. means it a an electric shift forward/reverse, while older ones will have two pedals .

FeelTheBern

Nekarsulm wrote: »

https://www.donedeal.ie/all?words=massey%2050hx&area=Ireland

Something like this would be a great tool for feeding and loading. Strong enough construction to shake a round bale to bits and then push it in. That kind of action is beyond many aftermarket loaders on tractors. And it has 4wd and a 4 in 1 bucket. Both great things to have. The 4 in 1 bucket will allow you grab a round bale and carry it to the shed, and when the wrap and net is removed, allow you grab lumps off the bale and tear it apart. Fierce handy for cleaning up waste etc as well.

As far as I know, the "e" on a 30e etc. means it a an electric shift forward/reverse, while older ones will have two pedals .

Thanks. Will keep an eye out. Neighbour retired from farming has JCB 2cx so might also enquire if he might have any interest in selling that - looks like handy machine