Trailer travel in Europe

GABRIEL1976

I wont to travel thru Europe with a trailer (small <750 kg) towed to my car. I know that in some countries you have to register and insure separate the trailer. what can I do?

biko

Moved out from old thread to new thread.

There can be differences between countries. Which countries specifically did you intend to travel through?

TrailerBob

For EU states, the vehicle and trailer must confirm with the laws in its country of origin. So if you have working lights and a matching reg plate on the back and it's roadworthy, then you don't need anything else. You may need to check if your insurance covers towing trailers for 3rd party

CiniO

Insurance will cover the trailer third party automatically, because they are required to do so by law.

AFAIK most EU countries require registration of trailers, where trailer is issued it's own registration cert and own registration number.
In theory it should be as TrailerBob is saying, that trailer must fulfil requirements from country of registration. But in fact as there is no registration on trailers in Ireland, IMO there might be issues.

Also I'd check all the weights.
You say trailer is 750kg... Is it plated as 750kg? Does it have brakes?
If not - what is the maximum unbraked trailer, your car is designed to tow?

F.e. my car is rated to tow 1500kg trailer with brakes, but only 500kg unbraked trailer.
If there is a unbraked trailer with D.G.V.W of 750kg, I can tow it in Ireland with my car, provided it doesn't weight more than 500kg (so it's not fully loaded).
But in many EU countries, I couldn't legally tow it no matter if it's loaded or empty, as their law would relate to D.G.V.W of trailer when looking at vehicle towing capacity.

TrailerBob

I'm working from experience on this one CiniO, having brought my 12x6 trailer as far afield as Monaco in the last few years. Checked all of this out in detail, and there was no requirement for me to have anything different to what is needed in Ireland. That only applies to French registered cars/trailers etc.

People also do this every day with caravans without issue.

CiniO

TrailerBob wrote: »

I'm working from experience on this one CiniO, having brought my 12x6 trailer as far afield as Monaco in the last few years. Checked all of this out in detail, and there was no requirement for me to have anything different to what is needed in Ireland. That only applies to French registered cars/trailers etc.

People also do this every day with caravans without issue.

Please, don't get me wrong, but Monaco is not very far. You've literally probably just driven through France, and possibly UK.

You say that applies to French registered cars/trailers...

The problem I'm mentioning here, is that trailer from Ireland is not registered at all. We don't register trailers here, and that could be a source of issues in some countries...

Most likely there won't be any, but it's not impossible that some policeman after asking for trailer reg cert and net getting it, will seize a trailer or something like that. Unlikely, but possible.

Also issue I mentioned above about allowed weights, and licensing requirements might vary slightly between countries, and you'd need to obey the law in country you are currently driving in regards that.
Fact that your B licence allows you to tow a certain set of vehicle+trailer doesn't necesserily mean that it will be enough in every country in Europe.

_Brian

Checked this out when I got caravan a few years ago.
Everything needs to be right in country of origin and that's it.

CiniO

_Brian wrote: »

Checked this out when I got caravan a few years ago.
Everything needs to be right in country of origin and that's it.

What do you mean by everything?
And where did you check it?


While registration issue could be rather caused by lack of knowledge of enforcement police, as legally I'm sure it's permitted to travel in Irish registrered car with Irish trailer with car's number plate attached to it, but problem might be that police in some places might not be familiar with such setup...


However allowed weights and licensing requirements are purely due to each country's law, so Irish law on allowed weights and requried licences has nothing to do with you, when you are travelling through Italy, Austria, Bulgaria or Greece, etc...

the_syco

Are trailers and caravans seen in the same light abroad?

CiniO

the_syco wrote: »

Are trailers and caravans seen in the same light abroad?

Yes - same thing.

TrailerBob

CiniO, why do you feel you need to keep arguing this? No, Monaco isn't as far as Poland, but it's far enough that I know what I'm talking about having spent 5 weeks on the continent in that stint, including Belgium, Germany France and the UK with a landcruiser and 12 ft box trailer.

The OP asked about needing to go anything to their trailer, they don't. No EU country will require a BE license for a 750kg trailer, and if he OP has a car with a lower unbaked limit, then it's their issue to resolve.

Del2005

CiniO wrote: »

What do you mean by everything?
And where did you check it?


While registration issue could be rather caused by lack of knowledge of enforcement police, as legally I'm sure it's permitted to travel in Irish registrered car with Irish trailer with car's number plate attached to it, but problem might be that police in some places might not be familiar with such setup...


However allowed weights and licensing requirements are purely due to each country's law, so Irish law on allowed weights and requried licences has nothing to do with you, when you are travelling through Italy, Austria, Bulgaria or Greece, etc...

Irish HGVs drive the length and breath of Europe towing Irish trailers. They don't seem to have any issues.

Driver licences are standardised across the EU, which is how we finally got direct access for motorcycles, so trailer laws are the same.

CiniO

TrailerBob wrote: »

CiniO, why do you feel you need to keep arguing this? No, Monaco isn't as far as Poland, but it's far enough that I know what I'm talking about having spent 5 weeks on the continent in that stint, including Belgium, Germany France and the UK with a landcruiser and 12 ft box trailer.

That's bit more information you gave now.
We still don't know though where OP is heading, and while there could be no problems for you in Belgium, Germany, France, there might be some for OP if he's going to Poland, Hungary, Romania, Greece, Serbia, Ukraine, Russia, etc...

The OP asked about needing to go anything to their trailer, they don't.

In theory they don't.
In practice, it might not be as smooth.
But as you say - there's nothing OP can actually get, as there is no system for registration of trailers in Ireland.
I would at least make sure it's plated with valid plate showing weights.

No EU country will require a BE license for a 750kg trailer,

That's true.
But it's worth noting that rules in regards requirement for BE licence are slightly different across EU, even if it doesn't rely directly to OP.

and if he OP has a car with a lower unbaked limit, then it's their issue to resolve.

Yes, but again it's good to know, that what might be legal in one country, might not be legal in other.

If I have a car which can tow 500kg unbraked trailer, and I have 750kg D.G.V.W trailer which is only loaded to actual weight of 450kg, then I can drive with such set in Ireland legally, but I can't drive like that legally in Poland.

CiniO

Del2005 wrote: »

Irish HGVs drive the length and breath of Europe towing Irish trailers. They don't seem to have any issues.

Because trailers over 3.5 tonnes, actually do require registration, and are issued with registration number, which those Irish trucks driving through Europe very often display.

Driver licences are standardised across the EU, which is how we finally got direct access for motorcycles, so trailer laws are the same.

What do you mean direct access for motorcycles?

Licences are only standadised up to certain extent.
There are still differences.

F.e. having only B category licence, I can ride 125ccm motorbike in Poland. In Spain I can ride 50ccm motorbike. And in Ireland I can't ride any motorbike at all, unless I have any of A categories.

So as you see, these rules are not unified.

Fact that someone is allowed to tow certain set of vehicle+trailer in Ireland with B only licence, doesn't mean that once that person crosses border to another country, this will still be enough. BE might be required.

TrailerBob

CiniO wrote: »

That's bit more information you gave now.


, but I can't drive like that legally in Poland.

a) I didn't feel as though I had to provide a list of qualifications in order to give some good simple advice, but I was pushed on it..if you wish I can supply photographs of various trailers I have used in various places carrying a dazzling array of things

b) You're dealing with the "what if".. what if the policeman doesn't know the law, what if the OP decided to put 3 tons of gravel in his Erde Daxara, what if the towing vehicle is a Honda 50.. to be fair we need more info from the OP

c) maybe the OP is doing the Mongol rally.. that's farther than many places... say Poland. You were called on this in another thread recently. It's not all about Poland. Yes you're using it as an example, but it seems to be the only one you have. (Here am being flippant and presumptuous, and perhaps you are a long distance trailer salesman - though I'm not so sure.) So maybe those of us who have a lot of experience doing the very thing the OP asked about should give the advice, rather than rattle off the weight permutations of trailers over and over, though I believe it is coming with the right intentions.

Sorry for having a rant, and being a bit glib, but it's frustrating when you try to give an answer to a question that has been asked for it to be nit picked by the "where's the link that proves that" brigade

CiniO

TrailerBob wrote: »

a) I didn't feel as though I had to provide a list of qualifications in order to give some good simple advice, but I was pushed on it..if you wish I can supply photographs of various trailers I have used in various places carrying a dazzling array of things

b) You're dealing with the "what if".. what if the policeman doesn't know the law, what if the OP decided to put 3 tons of gravel in his Erde Daxara, what if the towing vehicle is a Honda 50.. to be fair we need more info from the OP

c) maybe the OP is doing the Mongol rally.. that's farther than many places... say Poland. You were called on this in another thread recently. It's not all about Poland. Yes you're using it as an example, but it seems to be the only one you have. (Here am being flippant and presumptuous, and perhaps you are a long distance trailer salesman - though I'm not so sure.) So maybe those of us who have a lot of experience doing the very thing the OP asked about should give the advice, rather than rattle off the weight permutations of trailers over and over, though I believe it is coming with the right intentions.

Sorry for having a rant, and being a bit glib, but it's frustrating when you try to give an answer to a question that has been asked for it to be nit picked by the "where's the link that proves that" brigade

OK, few explanations then.

1. I generally know very little about trailers, and have little experience with them. I drove with a trailer literally few times in my life. I still have problems with maneuvering while reversing with one.

2. In oppose to not knowing much about trailers, I've read and looked up laws relating to them, required licensing, etc, so I have some clue about that.

3. I give examples of Poland, as I'm just being familiar with their laws there, same as laws in Ireland. Most people on this forum base their knowledge on knowing Irish laws only, and often assume that's how it works elsewhere. In some cases that's true. In some that's not. I have advantage of knowing laws in both countries, so why not share it here.

4. In short argument is fairly silly anyway.
OP asked what he needs to go with a trailer.
You say he needs nothing - as your experience confirms this. However you haven't been all over EU or further, and we don't know how many times you were actually pulled over by police when with your trailer abroad.

IMO situation with trailers between Ireland and Continent is not exactly clear, and while I was looking few times for approriate laws, I didn't find them eventually.

TrailerBob

Fair response.

I have driven in 16 EU countries, not all with trailers and
I was never pulled by police, although I did have a police escort in Monaco, loading on a particular narrow street could only be done with their presence, and they were happy with it. As we're UK traffic police at a multi agency checkpoint near Dover, that included VOSA and DVLA people which is interesting, as the MAM of the combination I had, would mean having a tachograph in the UK, but not in Ireland, so I was sent on my merry way.

By your own admission you don't have much practical experience on the matter. Unfortunately it's not easy to find a paragraph in a PDF for everything, and that book learning is no substitute for experience in many things (speaking as a teacher as my main profession). I am finding this out at the moment as I get closer to my D category bus test next week.. easy to do.. harder to do well.

Your help is coming from the right place, but I think quoting lines and lines from document X and Y only serves to confuse the matter in some instances.

Old School Husqy

Is there any link available to clarify for op and readers?

TrailerBob

Old School Husqy wrote: »

Is there any link available to clarify for op and readers?

I suppose this is where CiniO and I agree, there is very little to clarify in 'linky' documents. Online searches will find information from the AA, caravan club UK, autoroutes.fr, and various others, that all say the same thing about being legal in country of origin. I'm sure it's in an EU document, otherwise reputable agencies wouldn't be using it, but they're so long I'd be 104 by the time I found it.

I contacted the RSA, VOSA (now DVSA) in the UK, and a French contact I have who has a business involving towing trailers, before I went, and all signs pointed to the same thing.

Jesus.

TrailerBob wrote: »

CiniO, why do you feel you need to keep arguing this?

If the OP listens to Cinio he'll be able to tow his trailer all over the Continent in an Aygo

_Brian

CiniO wrote: »

What do you mean by everything?
And where did you check it?


While registration issue could be rather caused by lack of knowledge of enforcement police, as legally I'm sure it's permitted to travel in Irish registrered car with Irish trailer with car's number plate attached to it, but problem might be that police in some places might not be familiar with such setup...


However allowed weights and licensing requirements are purely due to each country's law, so Irish law on allowed weights and requried licences has nothing to do with you, when you are travelling through Italy, Austria, Bulgaria or Greece, etc...

I checked with my insurer who is the only party I need to keep happy really, trailer liscencing laws are covered already.
All eu countries liscences have the same regulation regarding weights trailers etc.

After that make sure tyres, lights and load is secure.

CiniO

_Brian wrote: »

All eu countries liscences have the same regulation regarding weights trailers etc.

That's my main point in this thread - that they don't.

Regulations vary from country to country.

Fact that you can legally tow a trailer in Ireland, doesn't mean you can do the same in Germany, Poland, Italy or Spain.

26000 Elephants

CiniO wrote: »

1. I generally know very little about trailers,

Now he tells us.....

_Brian

CiniO wrote: »

That's my main point in this thread - that they don't.

Regulations vary from country to country.

Fact that you can legally tow a trailer in Ireland, doesn't mean you can do the same in Germany, Poland, Italy or Spain.

My understanding is that EU Licenses are standard, the categories are the same across all EU countries.
If you can point me towards anything that contradicts that within any of the EU countries I would be surprised.

A regular B license will cover a car and trailer combination with a DGVW combination of up to 3500kgs, and this is throughout the countries using the standard pink EU driving licence.

My insurer tells me that I'm covered to tow any trailer covered by my license.


Here's a link to the German licensing website and the B & EB are the same as ours.

CiniO

_Brian wrote: »

My understanding is that EU Licenses are standard, the categories are the same across all EU countries.
If you can point me towards anything that contradicts that within any of the EU countries I would be surprised.

A regular B license will cover a car and trailer combination with a DGVW combination of up to 3500kgs, and this is throughout the countries using the standard pink EU driving licence.

My insurer tells me that I'm covered to tow any trailer covered by my license.


Here's a link to the German licensing website and the B & EB are the same as ours.

Thank for the link, as it pretty much proves my point.
Saves me looking up.

In your link it says that B licence allows to tow a trailers with an MAM exceeding 750 kg, if the maximum authorised mass of the combination does not exceed 3 500 kilograms and the maximum authorised mass of the trailer does not exceed the curb weight of the tractor vehicle.

There is no such requirement (bolded) in Ireland.

So in example, if I have a car weighing 1300kg, with D.G.V.W (called also MAM) of 2000kg, and trailer with D.G.V.W (MAM) of 1500kg, I can tow it with my B licence in Ireland, but I can't tow it with my B licence in Germany.


Also in many countries, there is an option to obtain extra qualification added to B licence which is indicated as code 96, which gives ability to tow a car + trailer of combined MAM of 4250kg (instead of standard 3500kg) - no such thing in Ireland.
So person with Polish licence with code 96, who can tow a set with combined MAM od 4250kg, can't do it in Ireland.


There's plenty more difference in licensing categories, which doesn't relate to trailers as well....

F.e. what I already mentioned B category giving ability to ride 50ccm motorbikes in Spain, 125ccm motorbikes in Poland, and not giving any ability to ride motorbike in Ireland.

Category B1 which differs from country to country.
In Poland with that category you can drive a car up to 550kg kerb weight, and you can obtain that category at 16 years of age.
But if you come to Ireland with your Polish licence of B1 category, it doesn't mean you can drive such vehicle in Ireland.

So as you see, there are differences.

Del2005

CiniO wrote: »

Thank for the link, as it pretty much proves my point.
Saves me looking up.

In your link it says that B licence allows to tow a trailers with an MAM exceeding 750 kg, if the maximum authorised mass of the combination does not exceed 3 500 kilograms and the maximum authorised mass of the trailer does not exceed the curb weight of the tractor vehicle.

There is no such requirement (bolded) in Ireland.

So in example, if I have a car weighing 1300kg, with D.G.V.W (called also MAM) of 2000kg, and trailer with D.G.V.W (MAM) of 1500kg, I can tow it with my B licence in Ireland, but I can't tow it with my B licence in Germany.


Also in many countries, there is an option to obtain extra qualification added to B licence which is indicated as code 96, which gives ability to tow a car + trailer of combined MAM of 4250kg (instead of standard 3500kg) - no such thing in Ireland.
So person with Polish licence with code 96, who can tow a set with combined MAM od 4250kg, can't do it in Ireland.


There's plenty more difference in licensing categories, which doesn't relate to trailers as well....

F.e. what I already mentioned B category giving ability to ride 50ccm motorbikes in Spain, 125ccm motorbikes in Poland, and not giving any ability to ride motorbike in Ireland.

Category B1 which differs from country to country.
In Poland with that category you can drive a car up to 550kg kerb weight, and you can obtain that category at 16 years of age.
But if you come to Ireland with your Polish licence of B1 category, it doesn't mean you can drive such vehicle in Ireland.

So as you see, there are differences.

When was the last time you verified your information? Motorbike licences where standardised across the EU a few years ago, along with the test where to qualify for a licence in the UK you had to exceed the 30mph limit by riding at 50kmh, so I'd say that they are now the same for the rest. Obviously they can't remove endorsements that where previously allowed, like pre Oct 2006 Irish B having M but Nov 2006 not, but any licence issued now will be the same across the EU.