Insurance for Biodiversity Surveys in Parks and Gardens

nessargh

Hello,

I'm starting a new business as an ecologist (primarily entomology) and an artist and I'm unsure about whether I need professional indemnity insurance.

I will carry out biodiversity surveys in public parks, reserves, and on private land (back gardens or other), informing councils and garden owners what species of insects live on their land and how they can manage it to better conserve insect biodiversity.

Could other ecologists, garden designers, etc. please advise me: do I need Professional Indemnity Insurance, and if so, to what level?

I know that I need Public Liability (up to 6.5million for county councils) and Employers Liability (13 million) if I'm going to have a volunteer with me from time to time.

Thanks!

pedroeibar1

Third post in six years.......that has to be a record!?
Yes, you do need PI insurance. Say you prepare a report stating that a lesser spotted horseshoe bat or Geomalacus maculosus inhabits my site (where I intend building a holiday village) and my expert states your report is flawed and I sue you for loss of profits (among lots of other things), you will find yourself in a lonely and costly place without PI insurance.

nessargh

Hi Pedroeibar1! Haha true - I'm afraid I'm a fairweather poster, or...the opposite I suppose!

Thank you for your very useful answer. I suspected that might be the case, but as the people who'll be using my services are people who want to know what biodiversity they can support (e.g. garden owners who want to improve their gardens for pollinators, or councils looking for management recommendations to fulfil their biodiversity action plans) I didn't think they'd sue me if I found something great. I'm not planning on doing environmental impact assessments, but I suppose there might be the odd time when I have to to put food on the table! :-D But I guess I'm better safe than sorry.

Are you an ecologist yourself? What sort of prices do you pay for the three - public liability, professional indemnity, and employers liability? And can you recommend an insurance company/broker?

Gloomtastic!

There may be Professional indemnity cover included in your Public Liability insurance (I know I have, or had in the past!). When you speak to a broker ask them.

My broker is bizbroker.ie Give them a call, they seem to be able to cover most things.....

nessargh

Thanks Gloomtastic! I'll look into that.

The insurance companies are asking me a lot of tricky questions I don't know the answer to as I've only just begun trading, such as how many people will there be on my nature outings, or how many children at a school workshop, and how often I will do these things.

Can anyone tell me, if an event I'm running is part of a wider programme (e.g. a nature outing which is on my local county council's heritage week programme), are the council responsible for insuring the number of people who turn up or am I? Would I have to make sure the event was ticketed/numbers limited somehow?

Thanks!

Gloomtastic!

nessargh wrote: »

Thanks Gloomtastic! I'll look into that.

The insurance companies are asking me a lot of tricky questions I don't know the answer to as I've only just begun trading, such as how many people will there be on my nature outings, or how many children at a school workshop, and how often I will do these things.

Can anyone tell me, if an event I'm running is part of a wider programme (e.g. a nature outing which is on my local county council's heritage week programme), are the council responsible for insuring the number of people who turn up or am I? Would I have to make sure the event was ticketed/numbers limited somehow?

Thanks!

I may be wrong but I think class size is limited to 33 so that would probably be the maximum number of kids you could cater to at any one time. Trying to control any more than that will be difficult.

Who is responsible for marketing the event would probably need to get sorted before they sign you up. Bear in mind it can be expensive so passing as much to the council, the better although you could target schools personally and probably to better effect.

pedroeibar1

nessargh wrote: »

Thanks Gloomtastic! I'll look into that.

The insurance companies are asking me a lot of tricky questions I don't know the answer to as I've only just begun trading, such as how many people will there be on my nature outings, or how many children at a school workshop, and how often I will do these things.

Can anyone tell me, if an event I'm running is part of a wider programme (e.g. a nature outing which is on my local county council's heritage week programme), are the council responsible for insuring the number of people who turn up or am I? Would I have to make sure the event was ticketed/numbers limited somehow?

Thanks!

Totally different to your OP. It's your business, you need to know what you are about. Why should anyone be responsibe for what you do, or numbers who turn up? It's your gig.......They are not tricky questions being asked, they are basic (very) business questions. You sign a proposal form for insurance, it is part of the contract of insurance, you get it wrong and you probably have no cover. There is no point in talking to a professional if you have no idea of what you plan on doing. You provide the input, they provide the answers on your information. It's not a hobby, it is business, so get it right.

nessargh

Sorry pedroeibar1, I see how that does sound like a totally different thing from what I described in my original post. What I wrote in my OP would represent the bulk of my work. Giving talks at schools or nature outings for the public are only a potential and probably very small aspect of it. My skills are versatile and it's not unusual for an ecologist to do quite varied work, especially when they are also an artist, and especially in the current economic climate etc. etc.

The garden surveys I mentioned are for fun, for gardeners and families with kids, so I won't be surprised if that branches off into school activities and outings. I'm just trying to predict everything that I might be able to avail of and get cover for it in case the opportunity arises, hence my difficulty in knowing exact figures. I meant that the questions were tricky for me, I do realise that they are logical important questions.

But I still think my question about county councils/other event organisers was valid. Take, for example, Africa Day - there were people teaching drumming and dancing classes in the open air. How could they predict how many people in a crowd of thousands would turn up to their particular class?

nessargh

Thanks again Gloomtastic! Useful info to have. Cheers.

pedroeibar1

nessargh wrote: »

Sorry pedroeibar1, I see how that does sound like a totally different thing from what I described in my original post. What I wrote in my OP would represent ........?

Hi Nessargh,
No need for apologies, none necessary. You need to decide if you are running a business or acting out a hobby. I still cannot get my head around what you plan to do, as I cannot see how working as an artist fits with entomology (other than drawing hairy beetle legs after disection!)
Either way you need insurance if you are interacting with public bodies or people. If for e.g. you are holding a field day for interested adults in a public park you would need to limit group size to what you can manage – that’s probably 25 or so (think of people doing local history walks – what is their limitation?) If you are doing an ‘explore the garden’ for a kid’s party, with the kids drawing a bumble bee and one brat gets stung, or pokes another in the eye with a pencil, you could be in trouble. (Duty of care.) You need to be concrete in your plans, ‘cos what you’ve posted so far in motor insurance terms (which most will understand) is “ I want to insure a few cars” without giving car ages, types, engine size. location, values, driver age, etc. If you draw up a business plan it will come to you…. Then go talk to a broker, S/he will advise.

(I’m not an entomologist, I have a SAC property and like to know what I’ve got in/on it.):)

nessargh

pedroeibar1 wrote: »

Hi Nessargh,
No need for apologies, none necessary. You need to decide if you are running a business or acting out a hobby. I still cannot get my head around what you plan to do, as I cannot see how working as an artist fits with entomology (other than drawing hairy beetle legs after disection!)
Either way you need insurance if you are interacting with public bodies or people. If for e.g. you are holding a field day for interested adults in a public park you would need to limit group size to what you can manage – that’s probably 25 or so (think of people doing local history walks – what is their limitation?) If you are doing an ‘explore the garden’ for a kid’s party, with the kids drawing a bumble bee and one brat gets stung, or pokes another in the eye with a pencil, you could be in trouble. (Duty of care.) You need to be concrete in your plans, ‘cos what you’ve posted so far in motor insurance terms (which most will understand) is “ I want to insure a few cars” without giving car ages, types, engine size. location, values, driver age, etc. If you draw up a business plan it will come to you…. Then go talk to a broker, S/he will advise.

(I’m not an entomologist, I have a SAC property and like to know what I’ve got in/on it.):)

Biological illustration is certainly an option, but "like" my creativeentomology facebook page (Nessa Darcy Creative Entomologist. I'm not allowed post the URL because I've made so few posts!:D) and you'll find out how else I plan to combine the two. Though probably not for a while yet, as it's field season and I'm busy catching beetles while the sun shines!

I have a business plan, fully approved by an enterprise office. And I'm happy to be taking risks to be able to do the things I love for a living. But insurance is not one of them, neither is it my area of expertise, hence my convoluted questions. I just wanted to make sure I had all possibilities thought out. I have it sorted and bought now, with unlimited numbers of people covered for all events and workshops I might run (often outdoor nature events advertised by the heritage council or a county council are open to the public, who can come and go, so limiting or estimating the numbers of attendees is not always possible).

Thanks for your advice! I would also love to know what's in your SAC - give me a shout if you want to commission an insect survey

pedroeibar1

nessargh wrote: »

Thanks for your advice! I would also love to know what's in your SAC - give me a shout if you want to commission an insect survey

I had a peek at your sites. I love the pages/illustrations. Great idea, best of luck with the business, it deserves to succeed. From a quick look it seems a bit all over the place but so what, you can concentrate on the part that does best when all settles down (and hopefully that will be the bit you like best!) Keep an eye on the insurance costs and keep a record of activities & numbers – at renewal your broker might be able to get a reduction.

A wealthy neighbour introduced some antipodean plants and cryptogams in the 19th century and they carried the stick insects, flea species, etc. TCD has done the bug surveys (and Charles Nelson did the flora) on that place, mine are its ‘overspill’. I’m SAC mainly because of the bats, though there are freshwater mussels in the immediate catchment area.:)

nessargh

pedroeibar1 wrote: »

I had a peek at your sites. I love the pages/illustrations. Great idea, best of luck with the business, it deserves to succeed. From a quick look it seems a bit all over the place but so what, you can concentrate on the part that does best when all settles down (and hopefully that will be the bit you like best!) Keep an eye on the insurance costs and keep a record of activities & numbers – at renewal your broker might be able to get a reduction.

A wealthy neighbour introduced some antipodean plants and cryptogams in the 19th century and they carried the stick insects, flea species, etc. TCD has done the bug surveys (and Charles Nelson did the flora) on that place, mine are its ‘overspill’. I’m SAC mainly because of the bats, though there are freshwater mussels in the immediate catchment area.:)

Thanks a million I appreciate the support! Yes, I'm definitely interested in and enthusiastic about too many different things at the moment, but it seems to be working itself out into what's viable and what people want most. That's great advice about the insurance, thanks!

Goodness that sounds like a strange and interesting site! Acanthoxyla inermis? I'd heard about stick insects in Ireland but it's the first time I've really looked into it! Came across a nice Irish Times article - "Oh! to be a stick insect" It's funny that all the stick insects I've ever come across seem to be happy eating brambles! If you have nice freshwater mussel habitat I wonder if you might also have some nice water beetles and riparian beetles... I must get down there some day! It sounds great, glad you're taking good care of it.

Mrs OBumble

OP, something to consider.

You don't even need to get something wrong in a report to get sued.

There just needs to be someone who can afford a good lawyer (or maybe who is an unemployed lawyer) who wants to get you for some reason - logical or otherwise. Even if they don't win, they can wipe you out financially while toying with you.

The only exception is if you own so few assets that no body would ever bother suing you, because they'd never get any money out of you.