Behavior issues - "You don't like me"

openup

I'm not sure this is the correct place to post this as there aren't any posts of a similar nature but I thought I seek insight here anyway. I'm coming to the end of my 1st year teaching (in the UK, in a private school, having trained in rough state schools). I think I've done pretty well but have struggled with behavior and there is one particular issue I haven't been able to solve. I have a couple of pupils who are very disruptive, badly behaved and very rude who are convinced that the reason they get in trouble is because I don't like them. They will openly say this to my face. They are consistently rude to me and refuse to change their attitudes because I "would tell them off anyway".

I've had their parents ring up to complain saying they have too many detentions, I have other parents complaining about their children's results suffering as a result (compared to the other group I teach in the same year there's a 35% difference in the class average). And I just have to deal with behavior that in any other profession with give me grounds to say I'm being bullied. I am leaving the school at the end of term in too weeks so I won't have to deal with these kids anymore but I can't figure out what went wrong of what I should be doing to prevent it happening again. One of them was a really pleasant student who did well at the beginning, when I remind him of this he says "yeah I know, then you started bullying me". Cue roars of laughter from his peers.

It's really demoralising and has made me really worried about starting my new job in Sept. I have talked it over with colleagues so many times but can't seem to get anywhere. I feel like I've failed these kids' classmates. Does anyone here have any insight?
(This secondary btw, specifically talking about 12 and 14 year old boys).

Hermia

I suppose you just have to stress the fact and keep on telling them that it's not that you don't like them, it's their behaviour that you dislike. I'd keep giving them detentions etc but be sure to catch them when they're actually doing something good, even if it's just moving out of your way as you're entering/leaving the classroom, be sure to say thank you. It might seem obvious, but the more you interact with them in a positive way when they've shown good behaviour, the more they'll come to realise that it's the bad behaviour you dislike and not them.
Then again, they could be saying it just to try and get out of trouble....but remain consistent in your approach!

evolving_doors

If their grades are low then it suits then down to the ground to shift the blame.
Stick to the absolute facts, take down verbatim what was said/done. Report it up the chain, find an ally in the staff room.
Its probably too late to turn it around as when students don't give a #### and there's safety in numbers, then they are going to resort to type. Just make sure it doesn't affect your life outside school, you're doing your best. I had a nightmare class last class every Friday, it left a bad taste all weekend. Ended up just giving them tests every Friday with results going home to be signed.
Remembering back to my own school experiences, as soon as the teacher tried to turn a class around by ' making it fun ' the bold students knew they had broken the teacher.
Get parents on side if you can, use stats and facts if they try and hang you out to dry. I.e. If they ask why their son's grades are low, state the class average (if it's better) and ask how some can get high grades in your class? Check out exam reports from other teachers.
Are their Copy books up to scratch compared to other classmates.

I wouldn't worry too much about another job, I don't think a principal of a public school would like any issues getting out.

Ask the students after class what reason would you have to hate them.

Starkystark

Openup I could have wrote your post word for word a few years ago. It's such a horrible situation to be in. I was in the very same situation. I would reiterate what everyone else has said here.

Is your head of department any help? I know mine was. Ask around the staff around them what their like. Don't just go by what's in their record as in SIMS. I found a lot of teachers didn't report instances. If it's just your classes they are acting out in - Take down everything.

And as one person said on this have a look at their copy books. The amount of work they do compared to others in your class should be a tell tale sign. Also compare their work to their own copies in other subjects. With that student that started off very pleasant - see is there a clear contrast in his work from now to the start of the year. I was glad I did this as one of my students as there was a clear contrast between their work at start to the end of year and one had wrote awful stuff about me in the back of another subjects copy and even lightly in my subject in pencil - how sneaky and awful. They left remarks about being Irish, etc.

Get your head of department of student liaison person to have a chat with other students in that class about those particular students behaviour. I was really blessed with students that I never would have thought to speak out about how those two students were acting in my class. They said they felt sorry for me and that they were really annoyed that they only acted out in my class, how nasty they were and they were showing off. Problem solved.

The whole experience was a big lesson for me. Personally, I've been bitten by that pleasant at the start student. I learnt my lesson of never trusting students - the nicest of students can bite. Maintain boundaries.

Don't let them get to you. I know your leaving there but don't let it me a saving grace because we will all encounter similar difficulties throughout our careers. Main thing is we learn from them - whether it be changing something we do in class/school or just simply letting it go. I remember really bringing all the crap home and it consuming my life. Now I just deal with it as it comes and leaving it at the door of the school in the evenings.

Do something about it now though. Don't let them get away with it. At the minute they think they are with their parents behind them.

PM me if you like.

evolving_doors

Screw it anyway, you're job is not to like them, you like your friends, your pet or going to the Opera. You can't be letting them think it's personal.


Them: "Sir do you dislike us more than any other class?".
Me: "No, I dislike all of ye equally".

icebergiceberg

openup wrote: »

I'm not sure this is the correct place to post this as there aren't any posts of a similar nature but I thought I seek insight here anyway. I'm coming to the end of my 1st year teaching (in the UK, in a private school, having trained in rough state schools). I think I've done pretty well but have struggled with behavior and there is one particular issue I haven't been able to solve. I have a couple of pupils who are very disruptive, badly behaved and very rude who are convinced that the reason they get in trouble is because I don't like them. They will openly say this to my face. They are consistently rude to me and refuse to change their attitudes because I "would tell them off anyway".

I've had their parents ring up to complain saying they have too many detentions, I have other parents complaining about their children's results suffering as a result (compared to the other group I teach in the same year there's a 35% difference in the class average). And I just have to deal with behavior that in any other profession with give me grounds to say I'm being bullied. I am leaving the school at the end of term in too weeks so I won't have to deal with these kids anymore but I can't figure out what went wrong of what I should be doing to prevent it happening again. One of them was a really pleasant student who did well at the beginning, when I remind him of this he says "yeah I know, then you started bullying me". Cue roars of laughter from his peers.

It's really demoralising and has made me really worried about starting my new job in Sept. I have talked it over with colleagues so many times but can't seem to get anywhere. I feel like I've failed these kids' classmates. Does anyone here have any insight?
(This secondary btw, specifically talking about 12 and 14 year old boys).

Nothing worse than the feelings you have. You have my sympathies. Of being demoralised. Maybe taking these feelings home with you and mulling over them. They controlling you.

You hinted that you might feel bullied by this behaviour? Act on this. All bullies are cowardly and so I would address this. Bullies need to be put in their box. They will back off once they see superior strength. You have got to find that superior strength. I know you said you were leaving that school shortly but you will inevitably come across the same types of behaviours again as human nature does not change.
If you are really struggling make sure you talk to the principal. Tell principal you feel bullied by this behaviour and that you want something done about it. Insist on that. It is your right.

Go through with the principal the school's anti-bullying policy which should include an anti bullying policy by students of staff. It is surprising how many such policies do not include this. There will be different stages setting out very clearly the rights of all parties concerned. Be particularly aware of the rights of the child and parents at all stages and mindful of those rights. There should be a bit there about stages of this policy being progressed to the BOM. Principal will be well aware that the bom may have to become involved unless it can be sorted beforehand. This is what principal will want to happen especially of staff member is strong willed.

It's hassle. It's trouble. It's messy. It could snowball.

Make a plan with principal to deal with this. For a period of time write down every single incident time and date of this type of behaviour that occours and all the better if it can be witnessed by a colleague. Write down facts that can not be contradicted. Invite parents in to meeting with student. Read out all incidents that occoured. It is a powerful tool when you can say '... and then at 10:15 on 24 January Mrs Smith and I saw/heard you ...' etc. But must be followed up by a suspension. Worse to follow if there is one more episode. Don't have conversations with student about his/her behaviour in presence of other students. Don't ever let them know they have gotten under your skin or that they push your buttons. And as poster above noted, never trust any of them. That way, you will never be disappointed. You are the boss. Not the students. Show them often.

byhookorbycrook

Allegations of bullying need to be nipped in the bud. I presume you are documenting the incidents of bad behaviour and the reasons for the detentions.Have you discussed this with the year head?Would you be happy to have another teacher sit in in class?Are you the only one having these few act up?

PMBC

Such a pity that its students behaviour not just learning ability that is the issue these days. I had a good friend who taught, years ago. He said to me that the biggest problem on Mondays was the students being hungover. Cant imagine what its like now; you have my sympathies.

theLuggage

openup wrote: »

One of them was a really pleasant student who did well at the beginning, when I remind him of this he says "yeah I know, then you started bullying me". Cue roars of laughter from his peers.

This just popped out at me. If you are trying to appeal to his better nature do it on a one to one basis. Any young teenage boy will be only playing to the crowd resulting in the above exchange.

openup

Thanks for all the responses. Though I have to say, I feel like I tried all of the approached mentioned, but maybe I'm not consistent enough. It is partly the school at fault though because it does have the idea that we can't be too hard on the kids since their parents pay so much, which is nonsense obviously. I also think I might just be my manner - like the other kids have asked me if the reason I'm leaving the school is because of that pupil but I always thought I appeared completely neutral when dealing with his nonsense, obviously not. He just seems to get such a kick out of it. When leaving my class for the last time he shouted "to his friend" 3 times (presumably because I wasn't reacting) that he hoped his next French teacher didn't hate him.

Anyway, it's summer now so no need to think about it any further! Thanks again! I will follow the advice here if I'm ever in a similar situation.

Crazyteacher

How do the students know you are leaving??

evolving_doors

Ya, like the song says, you gotta let it goooo. Next time though sit on them from the getgo, get parents involved early.

Good luck in the new job btw, you dodged a bullet.