which lease supersedes?

Ms Doubtfire1

I've signed a new lease (didn't know I didn't have to) while the old one was actually still valie for a year under Part IV.Which one is valid/supersedes?

SarahS2013

Fixed term lease and Part 4 are 2 different things.
New lease is applicable now but depending on how far you are into your tenure Part 4 may still be applicable when that fixed term lease finishes

Ms Doubtfire1

SarahS2013 wrote: »

Fixed term lease and Part 4 are 2 different things.
New lease is applicable now but depending on how far you are into your tenure Part 4 may still be applicable when that fixed term lease finishes

as far asI know there is no such thing as fixed term lease.Once a lease is 6 month +1 day it's automatically part 4 regardless of the fixed term mentioned

Ms Doubtfire1

so, the old lease is 3 years + 5 month, the new lease is just about 5 month old

SarahS2013

Of course there's such thing as a fixed term lease.
Take this as an example.
You move into a place on a 1 year fixed term lease. After 6 months, you are therefore entitled to claim Part 4 tenancy which means after the fixed term lease is up, you are not obliged to sign another fixed term lease and can continue renting the property for another 3 years subject to rent increase after your second year of residence.

If you are 3 years and 5 months into your residency, then yes you were entitled to claim part 4. If the LL had not requested you sign another lease, then @ 4yrs, there is then a period of 6 months when either you or the LL can end the tenancy without reason - usual time periods etc apply. This is a FURTHER Part 4 tenancy.

However if you're telling me that @ 3yrs 5 months the LL has have you sign into another year, this will take you up to 4 yrs and 5 months so in other words, there will only be 1 month in which either can end the lease without reason.

Bottom line is if you sign a lease for a certain amount of time then you are liable for that period of time.

Ms Doubtfire1

SarahS2013 wrote: »

Of course there's such thing as a fixed term lease.
Take this as an example.
You move into a place on a 1 year fixed term lease. After 6 months, you are therefore entitled to claim Part 4 tenancy which means after the fixed term lease is up, you are not obliged to sign another fixed term lease and can continue renting the property for another 3 years subject to rent increase after your second year of residence.

If you are 3 years and 5 months into your residency, then yes you were entitled to claim part 4. If the LL had not requested you sign another lease, then @ 4yrs, there is then a period of 6 months when either you or the LL can end the tenancy without reason - usual time periods etc apply. This is a FURTHER Part 4 tenancy.

However if you're telling me that @ 3yrs 5 months the LL has have you sign into another year, this will take you up to 4 yrs and 5 months so in other words, there will only be 1 month in which either can end the lease without reason.

Bottom line is if you sign a lease for a certain amount of time then you are liable for that period of time.[/QUOT
Not sure I explain it correctly. First lease started out feb 2013, for 3 years, ended feb 2016 officially.However, under part 4 it would have been valid another year. I did sign another lease in february, which now runs til 2019(4 years ).I'm just wondering which one is currently valid as I am getting different information from PTRB and threshhold...>totally confused<

SarahS2013

Is this a lease with a private LL?

If you started in Feb 2013, Part 4 would have taken you up to Feb 2017, however you have since signed another fixed term lease which superseeds Part 4.

Sounds like a very long lease to be signing with a private LL??

Ms Doubtfire1

It is with a private LL but there's land and stables involved..and counting error..it was 2012.

SarahS2013

Feb 2012, 4 years on part 4 brings you up to Feb 2016. Therefore between March - Aug 2016 inclusive, either you or the LL could have ended the tenancy without having to give reason. Instead he chose to offer you another lease, which you agreed. Your Part 4 had expired in Feb so you were not entitled to refuse to sign another lease. You are now at the start of what is known a further part 4 tenancy.

Claw Hammer

If there is a business element to it, it may not be under the RTA at all but provisions in relation to business leases may apply. It i impossible to say which is the case on the iformation given so far.

Ms Doubtfire1

OK,
let me get this right:
In february 2013 I signed a 3 year lease (fixed term) which took me to February 2016.As per part 4, this lease would have still been valid for another year-the land was included in the lease itself. The 'new' lease, signed in February 2016, is split by a land lease and a house lease and bot are made up until 2020 (valid 4 years.)
There is no business relationship involved as the land is used for grazing horses,which are rescue's.LL received Single farm payment on the property, it's registered as commercial property with him, but I rent it under a domestic rental agreement..so as per now, i am totally and utterly confused as to where I stand?

Graham

Ms Doubtfire1 wrote: »

OK,
let me get this right:
In february 2013 I signed a 3 year lease (fixed term) which took me to February 2016.As per part 4, this lease would have still been valid for another year

The lease would not have been valid for another year, the part 4 tenancy would have been valid for another year. (assuming your original tenancy started in 2013)

Ms Doubtfire1

Graham wrote: »

The lease would not have been valid for another year, the part 4 tenancy would have been valid for another year. (assuming your original tenancy started in 2013)

ok thats just another way of putting it..:-)

Graham

Ms Doubtfire1 wrote: »

ok thats just another way of putting it..:-)

Not really, a part 4 tenancy does not extend or shorten the duration of the lease.

If you had a 3yr lease you could claim part 4 rights to cover the fourth year but that would not extend the 3yr lease. The net result is you still get to live there but the legalities are quite different.

In your case it sounds like a lease would suit you better than a part 4 tenancy, the lease usually gives you greater security then part 4 alone.

Ms Doubtfire1

cool...but that doesn't answer my question..?

Graham

Ms Doubtfire1 wrote: »

cool...but that doesn't answer my question..?

If you have part 4 rights, they remain. The lease usually give you additional rights and security for the duration of the lease. A lease cannot take away any of the part 4 rights you already have.

So to answer, both apply.

Ms Doubtfire1

args...but they have different terms..?? :eek:

Graham

Ms Doubtfire1 wrote: »

args...but they have different terms..?? :eek:

That's not necessarily a problem. If you have two 3 year leases, by the end of the second lease you will still have part 4 rights for another 2 years.

SarahS2013

You need to stop thinking of Part 4 as a lease, it's not!
You are now in a fixed term lease, regardless of Part 4 rights.

What's the issue here? Do you want to move or something?

Ms Doubtfire1

no I just want to know where I stand.
and:

A fixed-term tenancy is an agreement that covers a specific amount of time. It is generally (but not always) set down in a written contract, called a lease. It may be for any period, but can range from as little as 6 months up to a year or more. It is important to note the following points about a fixed-term tenancy:

Your landlord may not end the tenancy before the end of the fixed term unless you have breached your obligations under it
In general, you may not end the tenancy before the end of the term unless the landlord has breached his obligations under it; you are exercising a break clause; you have got someone to replace you; or you and the landlord both agree to end it
However, if a private landlord* refuses to consent to an assignment or sub-let of the tenancy, you can terminate the tenancy under Section 186 of the Residential Tenancies Act 2004
In general, you acquire security of tenure after 6 months – see ‘Part 4 tenancy’ below
If you wish to stay in the dwelling after the end of the fixed term, you must notify the landlord at least a month before the term expires

Graham

It sounds like you stand with a fixed term lease AND part 4 rights.

If you had ONLY part 4 rights, there are a number of circumstances where the landlord could give you notice to end the tenancy early.

It's harder for a Landlord to end a fixed term lease early (as the info in your last post states).

SarahS2013

Where you stand is that you are obliged to see out a 4 year lease, which is what you signed into.