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New car info wanted - A5 3.0 TDI vs. BMW 330d shortlist.

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  • 26-06-2016 9:21pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 3,183 ✭✭✭


    I'm looking to change my car in about 6 months or so and I'd like to get some advice on what I should get. Currently I drive a '04 BMW 320Ci Sport, so 2.2 petrol. I love this car, it has a nice bit of power, drives great and hasn't caused me much hassle since I got it but it's a pig to run, between petrol, tax and insurance.

    I've had the car for 2 years now so I'd like to upgrade to something a bit more modern and with a bit more power. Tax costs have pretty much forced me into diesel territory if I want decent power but I can live with that. My budget is around €15k and I'd like to keep tax to the €750 band.

    At the moment, my shortlist is:
    - '08-'10 Audi A5 3.0 TDI Quattro Sport
    - '08-'10 BMW 330d M Sport

    I like the power that both of these offer without the ridiculous tax and insurance costs. The BMW is coming in more expensive to tax and insure so I'll have to consider that. I'm leaning towards the Audi based purely on styling.

    Does anyone have any experience with these cars? What can you tell me about them or what to look out for when buying? What sort of money should I be looking to spend and is it worth looking to the UK (VRT for both is around €5k).

    If anyone has any other suggestions of cars I should look, by all means let me know, I'm still very open to what I want to get.

    Thanks!


Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 449 ✭✭logie101


    I'm looking to change my car in about 6 months or so and I'd like to get some advice on what I should get. Currently I drive a '04 BMW 320Ci Sport, so 2.2 petrol. I love this car, it has a nice bit of power, drives great and hasn't caused me much hassle since I got it but it's a pig to run, between petrol, tax and insurance.

    I've had the car for 2 years now so I'd like to upgrade to something a bit more modern and with a bit more power. Tax costs have pretty much forced me into diesel territory if I want decent power but I can live with that. My budget is around €15k and I'd like to keep tax to the €750 band.

    At the moment, my shortlist is:
    - '08-'10 Audi A5 3.0 TDI Quattro Sport
    - '08-'10 BMW 330d M Sport

    I like the power that both of these offer without the ridiculous tax and insurance costs. The BMW is coming in more expensive to tax and insure so I'll have to consider that. I'm leaning towards the Audi based purely on styling.

    Does anyone have any experience with these cars? What can you tell me about them or what to look out for when buying? What sort of money should I be looking to spend and is it worth looking to the UK (VRT for both is around €5k).

    If anyone has any other suggestions of cars I should look, by all means let me know, I'm still very open to what I want to get.

    Thanks!

    I agree buy the Audi. It looks better and is less common. Just be aware my friend had an A5 and was plagued by electrical problems.

    On a side note I have been looking to buy a straight 6 BMW 320 as a second car. It's actually very had to find a good one. So if/when looking to sell I'd appreciate if you could PM me.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,006 ✭✭✭bmwguy


    Are they coupés you are looking for in both? If so I think the a5 is the better looking car which is very important in the coupé market, possibly the most important.
    I would choose based on looks between those 2, Audi has the edge here. Driving dynamics will probably favour the bmw but only slightly.

    As for prices, I am not sure but I think you will be looking to the UK before long unless you want the 2.0d in either of them.


  • Registered Users Posts: 23,261 ✭✭✭✭mickdw


    logie101 wrote: »
    I agree buy the Audi. It looks better and is less common. Just be aware my friend had an A5 and was plagued by electrical problems.

    On a side note I have been looking to buy a straight 6 BMW 320 as a second car. It's actually very had to find a good one. So if/when looking to sell I'd appreciate if you could PM me.

    I've an A5 for 8 years and no electrical problems bar a sensor that is exposed to road dirt.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,183 ✭✭✭UnknownSpecies


    logie101 wrote: »
    I agree buy the Audi. It looks better and is less common. Just be aware my friend had an A5 and was plagued by electrical problems.

    On a side note I have been looking to buy a straight 6 BMW 320 as a second car. It's actually very had to find a good one. So if/when looking to sell I'd appreciate if you could PM me.

    Yes the fact it's less common would be a plus. Ideally I'd like to get an S Line but I would make do with a Sport if it has the spec I'm looking for.

    I'll remember to get onto you when selling, mine is a great example if I say so myself :)
    bmwguy wrote: »
    Are they coupés you are looking for in both? If so I think the a5 is the better looking car which is very important in the coupé market, possibly the most important.
    I would choose based on looks between those 2, Audi has the edge here. Driving dynamics will probably favour the bmw but only slightly.

    As for prices, I am not sure but I think you will be looking to the UK before long unless you want the 2.0d in either of them.

    Yep I'd be looking at the coupe in both. I'm not a fan of the E90 BMW front end, but I think the E92 is great. Unfortunately it does look like I might have to venture to the UK. Hopefully the pound only gets worse!

    The power in the larger engine is one of the main reasons I'm looking at these. The 2.0d wouldn't interest me in either. I'd stick to petrol if I was buying sub 200bhp. The Quattro is another draw for me over the RWD.
    mickdw wrote: »
    I've an A5 for 8 years and no electrical problems bar a sensor that is exposed to road dirt.

    That's great to hear. Yours must be around the same age as what I'm looking for. How have you found it? Obviously pretty good if you've kept it 8 years!


  • Registered Users Posts: 23,261 ✭✭✭✭mickdw


    Yes the fact it's less common would be a plus. Ideally I'd like to get an S Line but I would make do with a Sport if it has the spec I'm looking for.

    I'll remember to get onto you when selling, mine is a great example if I say so myself :)



    Yep I'd be looking at the coupe in both. I'm not a fan of the E90 BMW front end, but I think the E92 is great. Unfortunately it does look like I might have to venture to the UK. Hopefully the pound only gets worse!

    The power in the larger engine is one of the main reasons I'm looking at these. The 2.0d wouldn't interest me in either. I'd stick to petrol if I was buying sub 200bhp. The Quattro is another draw for me over the RWD.



    That's great to hear. Yours must be around the same age as what I'm looking for. How have you found it? Obviously pretty good if you've kept it 8 years!

    Mine was bought new and well minded.
    very reasonable to run but mine is a front drive 1.8T
    The issues I've had relate only to fact that it's not the quattro so of no concern in your case.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,183 ✭✭✭UnknownSpecies


    Another one I'll possibly consider. '08-'10 Audi A4 3.0 TDI Quattro. Seems to be loads on UK websites for good money. VRT is also only €1683 as oppsed to €4999 with the A5 which seems mad. All in, you could get one in the UK for €6-7k less than an A5?!


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,774 ✭✭✭maddness


    Audi looks nicer but the BMW drives better....probably!


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,183 ✭✭✭UnknownSpecies


    maddness wrote: »
    Audi looks nicer but the BMW drives better....probably!

    I'll just have to try my best to drive both and decide from there.

    I drove my Dad's '12 2.0 TDI A4 before and while it was smooth and comfortable, it lacked the power and nimbleness I'd be used to. My petrol 320 delivers great power where I need it and it handles superbly. I have real confidence in how it performs. The A5 would be a good 90kg heavier than both my own 3 series and a 330d, but I don't know if that makes a massive difference in how it handles. The Quattro and extra power should make up for it I suppose.

    Also worth mentioning that the V6/I6 is the only way I'd compromise and move to a diesel. I have zero interest in 4 cyl diesel engines or non-turbo 4 cyl petrol.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,774 ✭✭✭maddness


    Ive driven plenty of Audi's but not an A5 3.0tdi so can't go be you any real feedback. However any A4/A5 I have driven has been disappointing to drive.
    Have driven a 330D MSport and it's a cracking drive.
    Depends what to want, I've always though Audi's make great cars to be in but BMW make better drivers cars.


  • Registered Users Posts: 51,120 ✭✭✭✭bazz26


    A5 looks and feels more modern than the 3 Series. Will probably boil down to which one you prefer after a test drive.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 17,840 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    the motor tax difference between the E980 you pay now and the E750 bracket is hardly significant...


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,183 ✭✭✭UnknownSpecies


    Idbatterim wrote: »
    the motor tax difference between the E980 you pay now and the E750 bracket is hardly significant...

    Yes but I don't have any finance on my current car, so every little helps. The difference would cover one repayment per year on the loan I plan on getting. I would stretch to €980 again if I felt it was worth it, but like I said, ideally €750 max.

    Another car I was looking at was the Audi S3. Similarly priced to buy and insure, not a million miles between them performance wise (so the Audi forums would have you believe), but you're smashing off the top tax bracket. I see tax as an absolute ripoff and waste so I'd like to pay as little as possible.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,004 ✭✭✭ironclaw


    Audi S3 is a cracking car, but both the old look hatch and new look saloon have extremely limited space in the back. They are also pretty darn low, you step down into the car really. If you are anyway tall, take it for a long test drive. If you are north of 6ft 3", it will get uncomfortable at your head and knees, even more so with a sunroof, and a longer drive on the sport-er ride can be quite hard on your back. Its a world apart from the 3-Series and A4/A5 in terms of comfort, but you make that up in bucket loads of power (300bhp+)


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,183 ✭✭✭UnknownSpecies


    ironclaw wrote: »
    Audi S3 is a cracking car, but both the old look hatch and new look saloon have extremely limited space in the back. They are also pretty darn low, you step down into the car really. If you are anyway tall, take it for a long test drive. If you are north of 6ft 3", it will get uncomfortable at your head and knees, even more so with a sunroof, and a longer drive on the sport-er ride can be quite hard on your back. Its a world apart from the 3-Series and A4/A5 in terms of comfort, but you make that up in bucket loads of power (300bhp+)

    Even the fact that I'm considering the A5 means legroom is at the back of my mind :) I'm 6ft with short legs so space shouldn't be an issue.

    I'd be looking at the '08 S3s (if at all) and they make 265bhp stock, so only around 20 more than the A5 but with less torque. Ideally I'd like to drive an S3 but they're not easily found. I drove a GTI V with the the same 2.0 TFSI engine that was mapped making 265bhp and I was seriously impressed with it but it did tend to spin wheels even in dry conditions.

    I'm going to try my best to drive a 330d and an A5 before making up my mind but on paper, the A5 is winning for me right now. It's ticking all the boxes for me and the more I look at them, the more I like them. Have to get saving now is the only problem!


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,004 ✭✭✭ironclaw



    I'd be looking at the '08 S3s (if at all) and they make 265bhp stock, so only around 20 more than the A5 but with less torque. Ideally I'd like to drive an S3 but they're not easily found. I drove a GTI V with the the same 2.0 TFSI engine that was mapped making 265bhp and I was seriously impressed with it but it did tend to spin wheels even in dry conditions.

    S3 attracts looney money here and are far rarer than the Golf GTI. They are worlds apart however. The GTI is coming close to its limit of power even stock. You have all that power on the front wheels meaning you can map and tune all you like, but you'll eventually reach a point where the power just won't be put down. The S3 is Quattro, and as silly as it sounds, in Ireland with our climate is golden. It will put down the power in any conditions. If you can't stretch to the S3, there is a rare 2.0 Quattro A3. Pretty tricky to find but its essentially an S3 with a Golf GTI engine, the major differences being the cams, turbo and the engine internals / head.

    If you are choosing between the GTI or S3, I'd have to urge you to pick the S3. Its a far more capable car and usually top spec if you find one here as they were so rare to begin with. If you really want the Golf, you'd be better off with the new Golf R, very capable car and on par with the S3 in all respects really. The downside however is most I have seen here are really low interior spec.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,183 ✭✭✭UnknownSpecies


    ironclaw wrote: »
    S3 attracts looney money here and are far rarer than the Golf GTI. They are worlds apart however. The GTI is coming close to its limit of power even stock. You have all that power on the front wheels meaning you can map and tune all you like, but you'll eventually reach a point where the power just won't be put down. The S3 is Quattro, and as silly as it sounds, in Ireland with our climate is golden. It will put down the power in any conditions. If you can't stretch to the S3, there is a rare 2.0 Quattro A3. Pretty tricky to find but its essentially an S3 with a Golf GTI engine, the major differences being the cams, turbo and the engine internals / head.

    If you are choosing between the GTI or S3, I'd have to urge you to pick the S3. Its a far more capable car and usually top spec if you find one here as they were so rare to begin with. If you really want the Golf, you'd be better off with the new Golf R, very capable car and on par with the S3 in all respects really. The downside however is most I have seen here are really low interior spec.

    Oh no, there's no question of buying a GTI over an S3. I drove my friends GTI. I only mentioned it because I felt the performance was similar to an S3, but obviously the Quattro would be a massive factor there. Quattro in the A5 is a big draw too as I've mentioned. I don't know if I could go back to front wheel drive either. The rarity of the S3 really appeals to me but I think the interior would be a downgrade compared to my 320 even. Compare the interior (and price) of this S3 to this A5. There's something very barebones about the S3, which in a way I understand but I want the best of both worlds.

    With a €15k budget, I think an R is out of my league :) But I do love those cars. Seriously eye catching and even though it's just a Golf you'd know it's something special. I noticed the same as you with interiors and extras. I don't understand how someone could buy that car and put cloth seats in it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 121 ✭✭crusha101


    Great taste in cars ! ,I would be inclined to go for the 330d myself . have you considered a merc clk 320 ? cracking looking car when you find one in great condition, only thing is you would probably have to look in the uk , haven't done any research into it so i wouldn't know how much tax would be etc , just something to think about.

    http://www2.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201605103792966?page=1&minimum-badge-engine-size=2.6&sort=default&year-from=2008&fuel-type=diesel&searchcontext=default&search-target=usedcars&maximum-mileage=up_to_70000_miles&price-to=11000&make=mercedes-benz&postcode=cm16fw&maximum-badge-engine-size=3.0&radius=1500&onesearchad=new%2Cnearlynew%2Cused&body-type=coupe&logcode=p&adPos=6


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,183 ✭✭✭UnknownSpecies


    crusha101 wrote: »
    Great taste in cars ! ,I would be inclined to go for the 330d myself . have you considered a merc clk 320 ? cracking looking car when you find one in great condition, only thing is you would probably have to look in the uk , haven't done any research into it so i wouldn't know how much tax would be etc , just something to think about.

    http://www2.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201605103792966?page=1&minimum-badge-engine-size=2.6&sort=default&year-from=2008&fuel-type=diesel&searchcontext=default&search-target=usedcars&maximum-mileage=up_to_70000_miles&price-to=11000&make=mercedes-benz&postcode=cm16fw&maximum-badge-engine-size=3.0&radius=1500&onesearchad=new%2Cnearlynew%2Cused&body-type=coupe&logcode=p&adPos=6

    Cheers, I agree with you there, lovely looking car. Only gripe would be the interior looks dated though compared to the Audi and BMW. Tax on the Merc is €1200 a year too so would probably rule it out at this point.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,154 ✭✭✭MarkN


    Looks are inportant, no doubt. BUT the BMW is a far nicer car to drive than the A5. The 3.0TDI is far too nose heavy and anything less will probably be FWD.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,287 ✭✭✭millington


    Cheers, I agree with you there, lovely looking car. Only gripe would be the interior looks dated though compared to the Audi and BMW. Tax on the Merc is €1200 a year too so would probably rule it out at this point.

    Everything is more dated looking. That shape was first released in 2002 :eek:


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  • Registered Users Posts: 9,587 ✭✭✭tossy


    I've a 08 S3 i'm 6'1 and have no issues with comfort or room.

    I don't know where you are based but you are welcome to have a look at it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,183 ✭✭✭UnknownSpecies


    tossy wrote: »
    I've a 08 S3 i'm 6'1 and have no issues with comfort or room.

    I don't know where you are based but you are welcome to have a look at it.

    Sound, I might take you up on that offer in a couple of months. I have about a year of saving to do first. The suspense is going to kill me so I have to put new car thoughts to the back of my mind!


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,587 ✭✭✭tossy


    Sound, I might take you up on that offer in a couple of months. I have about a year of saving to do first. The suspense is going to kill me so I have to put new car thoughts to the back of my mind!

    No Hassle. In terms of cabin space the wouldn't be far off an A5 or 330 in terms of front two seats. The rear seats are a little cramped like any 3 door car, depending on what the spec is it can be awkward getting in and out. The Recaro wing back seats don't slide when tilted and that makes it awkward for anyone other than a child to get in and out.

    I've never driven a 330D but i've driven a few 3.0TDI's in different cars. The are a savage engine but there isn't any real competition in my mind between the two. It's horse for courses of course but the S3 wins. Then again you are getting marginally less power in the 3.0TDI's and far better fuel economy so you need to decide what's right for you.

    Tax on the S3's pre July '08 is 710 and post July its 1200 lol.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,381 ✭✭✭vintagevrs


    I don't understand how someone could buy that car and put cloth seats in it.

    I did just that. I prefer the cloth to the "leather" VW offer. 2k for leather in a Golf is a bit rich too imo. A lot of owners who have it admit that the quality is poor. For me it's not worth the premium they charge. I often hear people say things like I don't know how someone can buy something without speccing this or that. Thought I'd give you "one of those people's" reasons.

    :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,183 ✭✭✭UnknownSpecies


    vintagevrs wrote: »
    I did just that. I prefer the cloth to the "leather" VW offer. 2k for leather in a Golf is a bit rich too imo. A lot of owners who have it admit that the quality is poor. For me it's not worth the premium they charge. I often hear people say things like I don't know how someone can buy something without speccing this or that. Thought I'd give you "one of those people's" reasons.

    :)

    Ah no, that's definitely fair enough. When quality comes into play it's a different story. I'll admit that when I see cloth in a car that cost €50k+ it baffles me, but if the leather is genuinely just not as good, then fair enough.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,587 ✭✭✭tossy


    Vw missed a trick with no offering some sort of Recaro option on the R. EVen the MK6 R seats were class.

    I've seen/driven an R with cloth seats and i've have no problem with them.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,183 ✭✭✭UnknownSpecies


    tossy wrote: »
    Vw missed a trick with no offering some sort of Recaro option on the R. EVen the MK6 R seats were class.

    I've seen/driven an R with cloth seats and i've have no problem with them.

    My main gripe is with how they look. I've never driven an R, so can't comment, but compare the seats in this R, to this one. Are the seats on this one half and half? I can't make it out but I like the look of those regardless of material.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,513 ✭✭✭carsfan2


    The last one is "carbon" leather.
    They are close on 3 grand as opposed to 2 grand for the regular leather.
    I have regular leather in my golf. It looks ok but is not great quality and a lot of it is really plastic leatherette. Still prefer it over cloth however.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,381 ✭✭✭vintagevrs


    The first ones are standard cloth. Cloth in the middle parts and light grey alacantara on the outside. Door cars and armrest are in leather or faux leather stuff. 2nd one is the Vienna leather, seats are covered in leather and in fairness looks much better than car one in those snaps. It's the 2k option.

    Car three has "carbon leather". Iv seen this in a passat and it's hideous. How they thought combining carbon look with leather is a good idea is beyond me. It looks very cheap and plasticy I thought. Carbon leather is yours for €3300...


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  • Registered Users Posts: 597 ✭✭✭bambam


    The 330d is a great car, quite fast and returns 50mpg on M/N roads with cruise control @ speed limit. On top of this it's very reliable and holds its value well.

    If you're getting an m-sport, be aware that the suspension is teeth-rattlingly stiff. Plus, if it's on 19" rims with run flats you will get cracked alloys (I had 3...). Be sure to have all wheels checked before purchase.

    And lastly, if you can, get the ecu remapped. It really transforms the car with better throttle response and more torque at low rpm.


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