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Moved in, landlord now saying I don't earn enough to have the room?

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  • 26-06-2016 1:25am
    #1
    PomBear
    Registered Users Posts: 1,885 ✭✭✭


    So I recently moved up to Dublin. I got an immediate start job and luckily found a friend leaving a room in a great apartment the weekend I started.

    Agreed to take the room. I was told the lease was up in August but send in a rake of documentation into property company that handle the apartment (copy of ID, previous landlord reference, employment reference, three months of bank statements etc.)

    So here's where it gets complicated. The rent for the room is €175 pw and I earn just under €500 pw net. The property call me and tell me I don't earn enough to pay rent. They actually said the landlord said this (but that's questionable based on language used). I believe I would be able to pay rent and have a half decent disposable income.

    "Why don't you find somewhere else?" I heard you ask. Well I've actually moved in (the property company don't seem aware of this). The apartment is great and I don't mind paying extra for the comfort as we all know the renting market is pretty bleak right now. The tenants living there are also sound out.

    So anyone know what I can do?

    The other housemates want me to stay and pissed the property company knocked me back as they do little for the apartment and are prompt on repair requests. Also of the mindset that if they find someone willing and able to pay rent, who are the inactive property company to reject?

    So the tenanuts are in a place to assert rights, if any...


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    #2
    davo10
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,926 ✭✭✭davo10


    PomBear wrote: »
    So I recently moved up to Dublin. I got an immediate start job and luckily found a friend leaving a room in a great apartment the weekend I started.

    Agreed to take the room. I was told the lease was up in August but send in a rake of documentation into property company that handle the apartment (copy of ID, previous landlord reference, employment reference, three months of bank statements etc.)

    So here's where it gets complicated. The rent for the room is €175 pw and I earn just under €500 pw net. The property call me and tell me I don't earn enough to pay rent. They actually said the landlord said this (but that's questionable based on language used). I believe I would be able to pay rent and have a half decent disposable income.

    "Why don't you find somewhere else?" I heard you ask. Well I've actually moved in (the property company don't seem aware of this). The apartment is great and I don't mind paying extra for the comfort as we all know the renting market is pretty bleak right now. The tenants living there are also sound out.

    So anyone know what I can do?

    The other housemates want me to stay and pissed the property company knocked me back as they do little for the apartment and are prompt on repair requests. Also of the mindset that if they find someone willing and able to pay rent, who are the inactive property company to reject?

    So the tenanuts are in a place to assert rights, if any...

    What a strange situation. Firstly, do the remaining tenants have a joint rental agreement or were the rooms let individually, each tenant having a seperate contract? If it's a single letting then the landlord shouldn't really have any objection because the other tenants are joined and severely liable for the full monthly rental. Put simply, even if you didn't move in, the remaining tenants would be liable for the full monthly rent. If each has a seperate rental agreement then they only pay what the agreed and the LL would have a lot more say in who moves in, or not.

    The amount you earn is going to make paying the rental rate a challenge, but it is your challenge, not the LLs, if you can't pay it, your flat mates will have to. You should be aware that there will be extra costs on top of the €175, electricity, phone, Sky, broadband, insurance, refuse, travel, food, etc

    The way I see it, if there is one rental agreement, the LL has no right to delay the replacement of departing tenant, if anyone should be nervous about your ability to pay, it should be your new flat mates, not the landlord.

    To answer your question, you do not have any rights here personally, but your flat mates have the right to replace the departing tenant. It is up to them to contact the LL.


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    #3
    PomBear
    Registered Users Posts: 1,885 ✭✭✭PomBear


    davo10 wrote: »
    What a strange situation. Firstly, do the remaining tenants have a joint rental agreement or were the rooms let individually, each tenant having a seperate contract? If it's a single letting then the landlord shouldn't really have any objection because the other tenants are joined and severely liable for the full monthly rental. Put simply, even if you didn't move in, the remaining tenants would be liable for the full monthly rent. If each has a seperate rental agreement then they only pay what the agreed and the LL would have a lot more say in who moves in, or not.

    The amount you earn is going to make paying the rental rate a challenge, but it is your challenge, not the LLs, if you can't pay it, your flat mates will have to. You should be aware that there will be extra costs on top of the €175, electricity, phone, Sky, broadband, insurance, refuse, travel, food, etc

    The way I see it, if there is one rental agreement, the LL has no right to delay the replacement of departing tenant, if anyone should be nervous about your ability to pay, it should be your new flat mates, not the landlord.

    To answer your question, you do not have any rights here personally, but your flat mates have the right to replace the departing tenant. It is up to them to contact the LL.

    Thanks for your reply. Yes if no-one moves in, they're liable for the rent as one of the guys pay's by direct debit.

    Yeah I'm grand with other costs really, should still be able to afford all other costs.

    Problem is the property company are claiming they represent the landlord but the lads can push to speak with him I suppose...


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    #4
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    It looks worse when you look at it weekly but if you say 4 weeks (roughly a month) its an income of 2k vs 700 in rent, and while it's not low it's not really an outlandish rent to net income either (35%). There are plenty of people on under 2.5k paying a grand in rent (or even more) for one beds so it's not really abnormal.

    I'd try to have a chat with the letting agent and ask why they are making this assessment and that it's hardly an crazy rent to income ratio.


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    #5
    Maireadio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 662 ✭✭✭Maireadio


    €758 rent per month. ~€2000 per month net. So you're paying 37.5% of your net salary over to rent which means you are spending less than a third of your gross salary on rent. That is not excessive at all. What a bizarre judgement for the property company to make. Unless they have someone else lined up who earns a lot more and they want that safety net?


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    #6
    The_Conductor
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,280 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    Maireadio wrote: »
    So you're paying 37.5% of your net salary over to rent which means you are spending less than a third of your gross salary on rent.

    Its not necessarily less than a third of the OP's gross salary- in any event flip it on its side- and the OP has to earn over a thousand gross- just to pay his rent......

    The 37.5% of net income going on rent- is on the high side- but its by no means unmanageable. It may take a bit of budgeting on the part of the OP to ensure his finances stay above the water line- but then again who among us hasn't had a financial crisis at one stage or another (I've unhappy memories of paying my mortgage by withdrawing cash on a credit card and lodging it to my current account- so it didn't bounce in the, thankfully distant, past).


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    #7
    Canadel
    Registered Users Posts: 1,586 ✭✭✭Canadel


    Sounds like some kind of scare tactic more than anything tbh.

    The maths support you staying.

    Maybe the property company are just sending a message that they won't be messed around and want their money regularly and on time? Contact them and perhaps show them you are a person of good character and maybe produce a work reference, previous landlord reference etc. Should be enough. Seems very strange otherwise.


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    #8
    Maireadio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 662 ✭✭✭Maireadio


    The_Conductor wrote: »
    Its not necessarily less than a third of the OP's gross salary

    This is a really nitpicky point. It very, very likely is less than third of the OP's salary. In a tiny fraction of cases it might not be, but let's go with the odds here.

    I don't see the point of the "flip it on its side" exercise. Either way, it's the same result, whatever way you look at it. Any amount of rent you're paying, the amount you've to earn to pay it is going to sound like a lot. Paying a third of salary on rent isn't excessive. It's the higher end of what one should be paying but it's not excessive.


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    #9
    happypants
    Registered Users Posts: 280 ✭✭happypants


    slightly off topic but I'm shocked they asked you to provide 3 months bank statements! Is this normal practice now? Why is it any landlords business how much you earn? If they know that they know how much they can squeeze from you in future rent increases. For all they know your generous well off parents pay for your accommodation.


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    #10
    L1011
    Registered Users Posts: 68,260 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    happypants wrote: »
    slightly off topic but I'm shocked they asked you to provide 3 months bank statements! Is this normal practice now? Why is it any landlords business how much you earn?

    Its pretty common now, and its part of trying to ensure you get someone who'll actually pay. Its common enough to also redact irrelevant items from the bank statement - e.g. everything except the salary.


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    #11
    PomBear
    Registered Users Posts: 1,885 ✭✭✭PomBear


    Canadel wrote: »
    Sounds like some kind of scare tactic more than anything tbh.

    The maths support you staying.

    Maybe the property company are just sending a message that they won't be messed around and want their money regularly and on time? Contact them and perhaps show them you are a person of good character and maybe produce a work reference, previous landlord reference etc. Should be enough. Seems very strange otherwise.

    I have sent in all that documentation. All would be supportive of my case.

    Also another reason why it's strange is the rent is paid by direct debit out of one of the tenants accounts once a month so they're never going to miss a payment nor have they.

    Also I've learned that people who have earned less or similar have lived here in the past.

    Large confusion really. What I'm going to do is get them to put it in writing and look towards threshold or PRTB. Also get current tenants to scratch the surface and see if there's any hidden agenda we can find.


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    #12
    TheDoc
    Registered Users Posts: 23,137 ✭✭✭✭TheDoc


    happypants wrote: »
    slightly off topic but I'm shocked they asked you to provide 3 months bank statements! Is this normal practice now? Why is it any landlords business how much you earn? If they know that they know how much they can squeeze from you in future rent increases. For all they know your generous well off parents pay for your accommodation.

    Yeah I got this when I was last looking for a new property to move up from an apartment (this was about three years ago)

    In instances where landlords requested bank statements I kindly refused. Some of them wanted assurances and weren't comfortable without, so shook hands and moved on.

    Others ended up apologising as they "just heard its the thing to do now".

    I'm ok with landlords looking for references, was a bit more "ah here" when asked for headed paper from my employer confirming my employment, but bank statements is having a laugh. There is also clear data protection requirements that most landlords wouldn't be able to fulfil. I'd say if it becomes a barrier to renting, it will go before the Data Commisioner and that practice will stop pretty quickly.


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    #13
    EagererBeaver
    Registered Users Posts: 6,415 ✭✭✭EagererBeaver


    The last place I rented in Ireland, back in 2013, also asked for bank statements. Wanted me to email them three months worth of PDFs. I queried this as they really only should have an interest in my monthly salary payment. I asked them about their data protection practices as they were a small (and ultimately incredibly amateur agency). I suggested that a letter from my emplyer stating my salary might be satisfactory and they were more than happy to go with it after the DP issue.


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