Kings Inns BL Degree Course

trucker

Hi all, just looking for some advice from people who have completed the Kings Inns degree.

1. Did you find a prep course worthwhile before the entrance exams (if you did such a course)

2. did you do the degree full time or part time, and what was your experience of whatever way you went?

3. What was your experience of the course generally? Was it tough/intense/easy, etc.? What subjects did you find hard? For example, is the moot trials tough?

4. What is your experience of finding work after? (I don't just mean as a devil, but did it help your career in the public/private sector? Would you recommend it for people who have no intention of practicing?)

Thanks in advance.

GeorgeOrwell

1. Did you find a prep course worthwhile before the entrance exams (if you did such a course)


I sat the BL Entrance Exams immediately after university so there was no need for me to do a prep course. If it has been a couple of years since you studied law, a prep course is a good idea because it'll bring you up to speed with developments in the field. A lot of the entrance exams test how up to date you are with the law, so it's probably worth doing if you're concerned.

2. did you do the degree full time or part time, and what was your experience of whatever way you went?

I did the part-time modular course and really enjoyed it. It's very, very intensive and the weekends can be long especially if you've been working all week. They do make for a great bonding experience and you'll get to meet some interesting people who will become good friends. The teaching is really good and the preparation for each weekend is manageable if you're organised.

3. What was your experience of the course generally? Was it tough/intense/easy, etc.? What subjects did you find hard? For example, is the moot trials tough?

It is pretty tough and the final exams seem to go on for ever. You need to be good at public speaking, and speaking without notes; you need to know the law and you need to be able to apply it properly. There's a lot of drafting of legal documents so you need to be good at English.

4. What is your experience of finding work after? (I don't just mean as a devil, but did it help your career in the public/private sector? Would you recommend it for people who have no intention of practicing?)

Very few people actually go into practice after the BL. Everyone on the part-time course is already in work and I certainly found it helped with my career - being a barrister looks good on the CV and the skills you learn - speaking, writing and research - are useful in most jobs.

Good luck!

trucker

Thanks very much for the detailed reply, it gives me much to consider. The written elements don't scare me, but the public speaking...now that isn't my strong point to say the least!

GeorgeOrwell

Don't worry. They'll train you well, including lots of videoing presentations and reviewing them as a class. That can be scary - seeing yourself on video is a sobering experience - but it's a great way to learn.

My own public speaking confidence rose hugely since I did the course.

Additionally, there are some good books you can buy to help your advocacy and speaking skills.

Dublinensis

Something I've been wondering for a while: what subjects on the BL degree course are examined, what form do the examinations take and how are they graded?

There's a lot of information readily available on the entrance exams but very little on the assessments you'll be subjected to if you actually get in.

hullaballoo

You learn how to make applications for security for costs in the Supreme Court anyway.

So nothing that's relevant to your first 20 years at the bar. :pac:

J/k. The modules are civil procedure, criminal procedure, ethics, negotiation, consultation, legal research and (oral) advocacy. I hope I haven't left anything out. I think there might be some Irish language element, but I don't think it's examined any more.

It's a fantastic programme and despite the fact that they don't teach you what a court list is nor its significance to your devilopment(?), it will very much help you cope with the pressure of the bar because it is demanding of your time (and money!)

Dublinensis

So written exams in all except advocacy then? Do they use an undergraduate-style grading scheme with first-class honours for 70%+ and all the rest of it or some other system?

they don't teach you what a court list is nor its significance to your devilopment

I yearn for the day when the Legal Diary section of courts.ie will make sense to me...

hullaballoo

Dublinensis wrote: »

So written exams in all except advocacy then? Do they use an undergraduate-style grading scheme with first-class honours for 70%+ and all the rest of it or some other system?

No, sorry. The exams in advocacy, negotiation and consultation are "live" in that they are done as a mock up of a real situation and you are graded on a box-ticking sheet. For the consultation exam, they have professional actors/actresses.

The civil and criminal procedure exams are MCQs. There is also continuous assessment involved. I forgot to mention that there is an exam in drafting (another module), which is as close to a traditional written exam as it gets.

There is no real examination of the substantive law as the presumption is that you already know all that from undergrad/diploma days, so the focus is on the additional vocational skills that are required from a barrister.

There is a scale of merit but I think it's the old distinction/merit/pass system. I could be wrong about that as well.

I am probably leaving a lot out since my memory of this is hazy at this stage.

I yearn for the day when the Legal Diary section of courts.ie will make sense to me...

Literally the only way this will happen is for you to go and print one off for some day, Monday ideally, and bring it with you into court and repeatedly do this for weeks on end until you can follow it. Then start with a list from a different court. Then start with lists from not Mondays!

Unless of course you are going to be devilling, in which case you won't have a notion what anything at all means until after Christmas. This is almost universally true for first year devils. My own theory is that it is only when you get the few weeks away from it all at Christmas that your brain has the opportunity to process everything that happens from October until then and you can make sense of it all.

Dublinensis

Many thanks.

trucker

This is all very helpful folks, really appreciate it.

HamsterFace

If I may just ask a question in relation to the above,

The BL degree is obviously quite strenuous, which is as it should be no doubt. I am considering sitting the entrance exams next year as I have to complete a couple of subjects that I did not do in my primary degree. I am not too worried about the entrance exams, I will bury myself away with past manuals and should do OK - it worked for my FE-1s anyway!

I'm more concerned with the work load of the actual degree, my work will be quite accommodating but, all going well, I should be starting, or will have just started, a family around that time. Would I be killing myself to do both at the same time, in all honesty?

Thanks in advance for any perspectives.

trucker

I'm in exactly the same situation, I'm married a couple of years and planning on starting a family in the next year or so. I've decided to put off doing the entrance exam until August 2018 at the very earliest (and even that's a bit optimistic!). I think it's very much down to personal circumstances, and having a VERY understanding other half. One of my former lecturers had a family, done a Phd and completed the BL within a few years, so it is possible...it just depends on your level of ambition, willingness to work hard, and understanding family.

HamsterFace

Thanks for the response trucker.

The missus is already behind me, knows it might be tough the odd time but that it's a great qualification, and I'll probably not be this well placed to do it again.

My real concern is how strenuous it would be after a long weeks work (though I would have days to take the Monday off each weekend that we were on .)

You talk to some people and they tell you how unbelievably difficult is, but I'm beginning to see these same people really like to talk up their achievements. Other say that once you pass the entrance exams it's a whole series of really interesting work shops and that you shouldn't have any trouble. Depends on the person I suppose.

Can anyone answer how much work you need to do outside of the classes, and to what extent you can work alone?