Are you a young progressive sheep farmer with enthusiasm for expansion?

Willfarman

Well lads is your grazing platform grazing all the ewes it could? Because if it is could yo do me and yourself a favour..

Before you release the Rams this Autumn hang up every third ewe.

Government policy and teagasc propaganda pushing for an increase in national ewe flock. At the behest of the processers I believe. Everybody wins except the poor fifer in his oilskins, eyes in the back of his head from Feb to May and bollixing his knees and hips for peanuts.

I implore the farm organisations to do all they can to scupper this race to the bottom.

tomwaterford

There's nothing like sheep to collapse in price

It's worth nothing Larry good mans involvement with sheep processing coincides with teagasc renewed effort to up sheep numbers


As it stood sheep sector was kinda ignored

ganmo

I am wondering if the ground could carry more ewes

But then I remember I don't like hardship that much and I want to cull all them lame btchs hard

rangler1

tomwaterford wrote: »

There's nothing like sheep to collapse in price

It's worth nothing Larry good mans involvement with sheep processing coincides with teagasc renewed effort to up sheep numbers


As it stood sheep sector was kinda ignored

+1
Dairy farmers are trying to get their head around what we learnt years ago....the importance of supply versus demand.
The public service seem to be choosing to ignore it, look at what the increase in supply has done to price in the last few weeks, where do they think they're going pushing for an increase in the national ewe flock.
As you say the sheep sector is ignored, when the PS destroy the price, there'll be no one coming in with cheap money, top ups and subsidies

Username John

So MII represent the factories

From here

Meat Industry Ireland (MII) is the sector association responsible for representation of the business interests of the beef and lamb processing sector in Ireland. MII member companies are responsible for approximately 85% of total beef and lamb processing and exports in Ireland.

The Press Release here, states

The plan, drawn from the high level growth projections set out in Food Wise 2025, envisages significant additional lamb output of one million per annum built on a programme aimed at rebuilding the national breeding flock to three million ewes and increasing the national lambing average with advances in breeding and management practices.

Does anyone tie any of this back to the farmer, and any potential increase in profits?
Or is it always done at a national / industry level? And never looks at the primary producer, or break down profits across the sector?

As the Dept produced this 'Food Wise 2025' book - is it they are the ones that should be looking at this?

kk.man

I think there won't be a massive increase in sheep farmers for the following reasons;
1. The skill associated with sheep is not among younger farmers.
2. It's not a farm sexy enterprise for young farmers.
3. Farmers have bad memories of sheep from the past.
4. Alot of people don't have the attention to detail required for a sheep enterprise.
5. Labour requirement

rangler1

kk.man wrote: »

I think there won't be a massive increase in sheep farmers for the following reasons;
1. The skill associated with sheep is not among younger farmers.
2. It's not a farm sexy enterprise for young farmers.
3. Farmers have bad memories of sheep from the past.
4. Alot of people don't have the attention to detail required for a sheep enterprise.
5. Labour requirement

Long may that image be out there, we certainly don't want overproduction,
however experience in sheep will be easier and less expensive to achieve than other enterprises and points 3,4,5 have massively improved due to better facilities and equipment being available

tractorporn

kk.man wrote: »

I think there won't be a massive increase in sheep farmers for the following reasons;
1. The skill associated with sheep is not among younger farmers.
2. It's not a farm sexy enterprise for young farmers.
3. Farmers have bad memories of sheep from the past.
4. Alot of people don't have the attention to detail required for a sheep enterprise.
5. Labour requirement

I think you're half right here, but those shiny euro signs do a great job convincing some fellas that its worth a punt.

Rangler is right this is a push from the processors to flood the market with a view to pulling the price as soon as numbers rise, if your looking for form just look at how spring lamb drops like a stone after Easter each year. I really hope people see through this but I fear not. Have been to a lot of places over the past couple of months with work aiming to increase ewe numbers and cut back on the cows.

Arrow in the Knee

It's no wonder that the improvement in breeding sheep has remained fairly static for the last 20-30 years going by this thread lol.
ie: Not much improvement in number of Lambs per ewe percentage. Weaning weight. Easier care/trouble free sheep :rolleyes: I could go on.

But this thread is on the ball.
It's all about supply and demand.

If us sheep farmers become more efficient more productive the meat processors will reduce the price of lamb.

So it really is a no win situation for the farmer.
Also less people are eating lamb around the world so extra lambs and fewer mouths.

Lano Lynn

100% agree with distrust of the MII

if MII want the national flock to increase they need to invest in the national flock.....let them fund full eid.....let them fund breed improvement out of their profits not on our kill charges etc.....a new bord bia lamb add would be a start.

BUT as long as farmers keep producing minging overfat ram lambs(and the processors buy them) the increase in comsuption will not happen.

Ironically Ireland should probably be producing about 2-3 million more lambs(like scotland and wales) and a lot less beef. Efficient sheep production is far more suited to our climate and it would fit our climate change commitments much better.The amount of hydrocarbons and imported protiens required for beef/cattle for overwintering is nuts.

skills shortage,land mobility and most importantly a realistic expection of return(profit) are the only obstacles but there is no political will (national or sectorly)for any of that.

Green farmer

Lano Lynn wrote: »

100% agree with distrust of the MII

i
Ironically Ireland should probably be producing about 2-3 million more lambs(like scotland and wales) and a lot less beef.

I've a relative who's a beef farmer. Was watching me load the trailer one day. Asked how many lambs I was putting in trailer and how much money will they bring. In their head, they thought the money was very small. If they popped a few cattle in their trailer, it would bring 2-3 times the amount of cash in. Each to their own I suppose. Other Main problem with sheep is the amount of them you need to run to get enough lambs to even make minimum wage to cover hours put in.

Willfarman

If the nation flock rises marginally the processers act the fup. Prices drop.

Racehorses ,Mercedes ,and even the odd helicopter bought by industry kingpins... Jobs for Eastern Europeans and South Americans in the boning halls.

Farmer is put on a guilt trip by the government advisory body regarding the operation within his own farm gate.. More efficancy, higher stocking rate and you'll be profitable, dodgy hips, and the knacker man is on first name terms with you but hey your a "good" farmer. You are "progressive".

Inevitably Prices further diminish. Dogged determination hardship and 20 years tying things with baler twine you make to the state pension.. Young lad flogs ewes.." Fookin woolly vermin he made more outa a litter of pups the family pet had.". As does one third of sheep farmers and boom.. There's a small twist in sheep production again!

Lano Lynn

there was still probably more profit in your trailer than theirs even before the extra costs of slatted houses etc is factored in.the same guys that would throw up a shed for 100thousand would wilt at the thought of 10 grand on fencing sheep or investing in a good dog

modern cattle farming lends itself to tearing around on tractors all day which appeals to lots of folk.sheep tends to be more time actually working with the animals unfortunately breeding policies have not focused on reducing the need for much of the intervention.a good dog,simple handling races & footbaths and a quad make sheep a very simple option.lots of lads that hate sheep got a sickening with stupid oldfashioned ****ehawk drudgery of chasing catching dosing lots of the rest are just lazy

Willfarman

Lano Lynn wrote: »

there was still probably more profit in your trailer than theirs even before the extra costs of slatted houses etc is factored in.the same guys that would throw up a shed for 100thousand would wilt at the thought of 10 grand on fencing sheep or investing in a good dog

modern cattle farming lends itself to tearing around on tractors all day which appeals to lots of folk.sheep tends to be more time actually working with the animals unfortunately breeding policies have not focused on reducing the need for much of the intervention.a good dog,simple handling races & footbaths and a quad make sheep a very simple option.lots of lads that hate sheep got a sickening with stupid oldfashioned ****ehawk drudgery of chasing catching dosing lots of the rest are just lazy

Nothing ever simple about sheep. And that's fortunate because of they were simple then every simpleton would have lots of them and they would be worth **** all.

Lano Lynn

but so many make it so complicated.....I am always amused by chaps fn those stupid sheep,after the sheep outsmarted them with very little effort....I like sheep:D

Green farmer

The key to sheep is having things really laid out well. Sheep are bas***ds. Will take the p*ss out of you at every given opportunity. Have an airtight setup. If you can do this, then all jobs become simple , from moving them from field to field, dosing, penning them etc. Problem is getting the farm to that level could take a life time.
Other issue is you have to love the lifestyle. So much easier to go get a office job and get more money Without spending Feb/ March nights standing around a freezing cold shed.

carrollsno1

Young enthusiastic farmer from a suckler farm if i cant get into dairy my farm will be white with sheep and ill be kniwn locally as the lad whos not well in the head 😳

ganmo

Let's see if the factories are committed to this plan of theirs by keeping the price where it is in the face of the sterling...or are they going to make it their excuse this week

Wooly Admirer

120 applications for the sheep fencing before the June deadline. After all the giving out that it hadn't been included in tams originally. This represents 0.0035% of the sheep farming community. Hard to believe interest is so low.

Username John

Wooly Admirer wrote: »

120 applications for the sheep fencing before the June deadline. After all the giving out that it hadn't been included in tams originally. This represents 0.0035% of the sheep farming community. Hard to believe interest is so low.

It was only for new entrants tho was it?

It's good for lads upgrading fencing.

But I innocently applied for it before on ground I was planning on reclaiming... Sure the place was reclaimed and set and grass was out over the ditches before I got the go ahead from the dept. to do the fencing

adam14

No the grant is for everyone. In fairness there was only two weeks to apply for it. I got mine in but the process was longer than the last fencing grants. I expect it will be much longer until approval comes through and even harder to get the money back when the job is complete.

Wooly Admirer

adam14 wrote: »

No the grant is for everyone. In fairness there was only two weeks to apply for it. I got mine in but the process was longer than the last fencing grants. I expect it will be much longer until approval comes through and even harder to get the money back when the job is complete.

Why was the process longer Adam. I thought the online system made it very easy. I appreciate waiting for approval and payment is a pain, but this is a no brainer for sheep farmers. While the actual grant is 40% on materials, you also get paid for your time erecting the fence. If you use your own tractor etc you can submit a claim for this too, by the time I was finished with my last fencing grant, my payment almost covered all my materials.
No matter what kind sheep farmer you are you'll benefit from a new fence down the middle of a field. The fence will have itself paid for in better grassland management before you know it.
I know the window was tight but lads need to wake up to these handouts before they disappear.

arctictree

Not sure what all the fuss was. I filled it out in about 15 minutes. And I'm not a new entrant. I heard that it could take a good few months for approval though...

Wooly Admirer

It's a great pity more farmers are not made aware of this opportunity. Farm advisors should circulate something to all their clients. Irish Agri media should spell out how easy it is to submit an application - Agri media seem to be too interested in sensational headlines and pitting farmers against each other of late...

rangler1

Wooly Admirer wrote: »

It's a great pity more farmers are not made aware of this opportunity. Farm advisors should circulate something to all their clients. Irish Agri media should spell out how easy it is to submit an application - Agri media seem to be too interested in sensational headlines and pitting farmers against each other of late...

'It was well flagged on the IFJ for the weeks before

Username John

Wooly Admirer wrote: »

Why was the process longer Adam. I thought the online system made it very easy. I appreciate waiting for approval and payment is a pain, but this is a no brainer for sheep farmers. While the actual grant is 40% on materials, you also get paid for your time erecting the fence. If you use your own tractor etc you can submit a claim for this too, by the time I was finished with my last fencing grant, my payment almost covered all my materials.
No matter what kind sheep farmer you are you'll benefit from a new fence down the middle of a field. The fence will have itself paid for in better grassland management before you know it.
I know the window was tight but lads need to wake up to these handouts before they disappear.

I dunno - I applied for the last two tranches of it.
And like you say - it was great to get it and it covered my time. But it was a pain waiting for it.

I could have applied again this year, as I have about 500m of fence to do. But I'd be waiting too long as it's more reclaiming.

As for splitting fields, easier and handier to use electric fence and it allows more flexibility too.

I agree it's great to get it, but it has to suit as well.

Wooly Admirer

rangler1 wrote: »

Wooly Admirer wrote: »

It's a great pity more farmers are not made aware of this opportunity. Farm advisors should circulate something to all their clients. Irish Agri media should spell out how easy it is to submit an application - Agri media seem to be too interested in sensational headlines and pitting farmers against each other of late...

'It was well flagged on the IFJ for the weeks before

Did they demo how to fill in the application? I think if people realised how easy it was to submit there would be more. I'm not just talking about the journal, I know Darren always covers these things, I'm talking about other stakeholders engaging with farmers.

Farrell

Wooly Admirer wrote: »

It's a great pity more farmers are not made aware of this opportunity. Farm advisors should circulate something to all their clients. Irish Agri media should spell out how easy it is to submit an application - Agri media seem to be too interested in sensational headlines and pitting farmers against each other of late...

We got a text from AG advisor telling it didn't have to be just sheep farmers that could apply, we've put in an application.
We're going to sheep fence a few fields anyway, now we might get a better job for the same price

J.O. Farmer

Farrell wrote: »

We got a text from AG advisor telling it didn't have to be just sheep farmers that could apply, we've put in an application.
We're going to sheep fence a few fields anyway, now we might get a better job for the same price

I thought there was a minimum of 50 ewes or somethingor iI'd have applied. I've only half that number.

Farrell

J.O. Farmer wrote: »

I thought there was a minimum of 50 ewes or somethingor iI'd have applied. I've only half that number.

Not this time, was previously.

Cattlepen

Lano Lynn wrote: »

there was still probably more profit in your trailer than theirs even before the extra costs of slatted houses etc is factored in.the same guys that would throw up a shed for 100thousand would wilt at the thought of 10 grand on fencing sheep or investing in a good dog
Truer words never spoken. The biggest expense in the cattle business is pride. No room for that nonsense when yer down on yer knees pullin lambs with the wet March wind in yer face

Username John

Wooly Admirer wrote: »

Why was the process longer Adam. I thought the online system made it very easy. I appreciate waiting for approval and payment is a pain, but this is a no brainer for sheep farmers. While the actual grant is 40% on materials, you also get paid for your time erecting the fence. If you use your own tractor etc you can submit a claim for this too, by the time I was finished with my last fencing grant, my payment almost covered all my materials.
No matter what kind sheep farmer you are you'll benefit from a new fence down the middle of a field. The fence will have itself paid for in better grassland management before you know it.
I know the window was tight but lads need to wake up to these handouts before they disappear.

I was thinking about this - and you're right Wolly...

I was thinking I had no fencing to do next year, but if I applie now get approval by the end of the year, I think you had 2 years before you needed to have it done, so could have done the fencing summer 2018...
So yeah, I prob could have applied for one field...

So I stand corrected Wolly, there is prob one field or bit of fencing everyone could have applied for...