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Eastern Europe for dental work
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23-06-2016 1:36pm#1
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There are plenty of Polish/Hungarian dentists working in ireland and providing that standard of dental work at those level of fees. There is absolutely no need to travel abroad. There are a good few Irish dentists operating and advertising a "low cost for highly complex dentistry" model also.
The question really is what standard do you want and are you willing to pay for. Not all dentistry is the same, not all experience of the dental work is equally pain free, not all service is similar, not all jobs lasts as long or look as good as each other. 8k is not cheap anywhere so it would want to be good. I would refer you to my signature below, and advise that it is the experience of all the dentists on here, and myself in particular that this type of rushed, high speed, low cost work is more often than not of a below average standard of care. The problems with this become evident only after suitably long periods of time. Get the best you can afford, not the cheapest you can find, those things are never the same.
"There is hardly anything in the world that someone cannot make a little worse and sell a little cheaper, and the people who consider price alone are that person's lawful prey. It's unwise to pay too much, but it's worse to pay too little. When you pay too much, you lose a little money – that is all. When you pay too little, you sometimes lose everything, because the thing you bought was incapable of doing the thing it was bought to do. The common law of business balance prohibits paying a little and getting a lot – it can't be done. If you deal with the lowest bidder, it is well to add something for the risk you run, and if you do that you will have enough to pay for something better." - John Ruskin
A picture I put on facebook receitly of a lady who had complex bridges placed 6 years ago in a famous clinic in hungary - this got nearly 30,000 views. The infections due to the poor work were horrendous, the failure was pure and simply the poor quality of the work.
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If the Dental council maintain that "We hear some horror stories about it, but I think the vast majority of people who go abroad for treatment are treated safely and are satisfied with the standard of treatment that they got, and satisfied with the results."
Then I disagree with them, I see far frequency and severity or omplications with patient who have availed of the hyper agressive style of dentistry afforded by high speed dental tourism clinics. I have documented this for years, all my colleagues agree and have their own cases.
As for "high quality dental treatment care can be found outside Ireland; and whether you chose to have treatment in Ireland or abroad you should research and inform yourself about the treatment and the person who will be treating you." I have been saying that for years, problem is these good dentists are not the ones putting advertorials in the Irish Times or shilling on boards. These good dentists are not the ones you find when doing your "research". It always amazes me how proponents can be so cynical about my recommendations but so gullible about internet research. Maybe its like the Brexit vote, people have just had enough of "experts" telling them how to think, and an uninformed opinion holds as much weight as one formed from years of experience and training.
Hillman you seem to think that every time you start mentioning the dental council that somehow legitimizes your arguments or strikes fear into the dentist on the forum, it does neither. I speak the truth and have the evidence to back it up. In fact the council demand that I act ethically with the public at all times. It would be unethical to allow people to be lead into a risky situation that is quite likely to detrimentally effect their health. Also the dental council of ireland look after dentistry in Ireland, people with issues from dentistry abroad cannot complain to the Irish dental Council unless the dentist that carried out the work is registered and practicing in ireland.
Some photos...I think I will add photos to every post as an illustration of the number of cases I have on file. I am one dentist in one clinic in one part of the country.0 -
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Hillmanhunter1 wrote: »Thank's for the dental porn Fitzgeme
Do you have evidence (i.e. an independent, empirical study, and not a survey of Irish dentists) that demonstrates that dental standards in Hungary are significantly different from those in Ireland?
This is not "dental porn" whatever that is supposed to mean, these are real people who have been severely damaged for life because they took the advice of people such as yourself. This is very upsetting for them, their confidence is lost, often their saving are gone and severe pain is not uncommon. I thank them for letting me put their photos up and hopefully save others their distress.
Evidence....what more do I have to do
. I will leave the RCT;s to the academics (although this topic is not conducive to high level research, nor really is the burden of proof on us.) More photos maybe...I hope this goes for a bit a have two or 3 absolute shockers after this one that I had forgotten about. It only when I sit down and think about the cases that I remember them. I have found that once the photos start appearing in large numbers, the acolytes of dental tourism go all quiet and defensive, like I am playing an unfair trump card....so lets play. This is not about location, this is about crappy dental work. and your more likely to get a lot of it, getting your teeth done in a week somewhere that convinces you to do such a thing, with the lure of low cost. The crappy dental work I see locally tends to be one or two teeth at most....because cost prohibits people from making stupid decisions and the legal system prevents dentists from overreaching (for the most part).0 -
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Op - I did fly back to home country to have some dentist treatments done few times already and it was definitely cheaper even including flights.
My advice to you is not to go to "any" place that advertise on the internet in English , as good dentists in both Poland , Hungary and other EE countries are busy enough fixing teeth of locals, and don't need extra patients from abroad.
If you know any Polish, Hungarian etc people talk to them and ask for help in researching good specialist. - Maybe they can recommend somebody, or maybe somebody from their families has some good experience., or maybe they can do research in local language on the internet.
Also after the work done give yourself few days of rest before flying back, so choose place with some good tourists attractions
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My advice to you is not to go to "any" place that advertise on the internet in English , as good dentists in both Poland , Hungary and other EE countries are busy enough fixing teeth of locals, and don't need extra patients from abroad.
/\/\/\Exactly....Dental Tourism =/= That countries entire Dental profession. People can go back in my post history 10 years as see I have always maintained this.
The two above posters have local information and can get unrushed treatment. This is not dental tourism. They were not reliant on "research"...trip adviser reviews, advertorials in glamour magazines, internet shills, paid for industry awards, logos on snooker players clothes, local paid agents and worst people, so keen to validate their decisions they already made, they overestimate their sanctification with treatment and refuse to acknowledge the irrefutable evidence of those with vastly superior experience.
Another....do you see?0 -
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ohnonotgmail wrote: »Did they really get 10 root canals in 1 week? I find that incredible. i've only ever had one and that took 3 sessions of about an hour each. 10 in one week must involve being constantly in the chair.
Yep, thats the problem to do this scale of work would require so long and so many visits over a long period of time, that the accommodation, flights and time off work would negate and possible saving. It only make financial sense if the pack it all into a few days. The gross overtreatment is bordering on criminal also.
Another....do you see? 8 different cases in this thread alone, and no repeats from other threads.0 -
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About 20k. Hard to tell what was needed. A lot of the time these patients come to me, I cannot tell that treatment was necessary and what was not. It is likely that to get the minimum amount of treatment (which should always be the aim) could have costs less than the 14k he spent. People often think that more is better, it is not.
Here is another....same clinic as one of the above examples, not hard to see a pattern develop. Bridge fell off taking the tops of 6 teeth with it. 6 root canals for some reason.
Also it is important that patients have the means to maintain and retreat this advanced work. This is not a once off expense, and costs generally increase at each re-treatment cycle. Good planning and careful execution generally build in redundancy into work that eases the burden with time.0 -
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