Internship - Paid/Unpaid? Help?

daveytheravey

Hello Everyone,

I'm new to this form but I do have some questions! So recently I applied for a marketing internship in a private college in my area. Well respected too. I didnt think much of it at the time and with most jobs wasn't expecting to hear anything back from it.

Then all of a sudden invited to a formal interview. She seemed like a lovely woman etc and was describing the job ect. She was very impressed with my self employed event management company I run at a very young age. She was fascinated with the social media and questioned me a lot on it. We were talking about all sorts for over an hour and a half. Without being cocky she seemed as if she was about to offer me the job but had some more interviews.

When she mentioned pay I expected minimum wage or even more. She kept mentioning it was modest and I bit the bullet and asked how much. €100 a week. For the work and hours she was describing it fairly much seemed like a 10-5 job 5 days a week. Now it sounded like a great opportunity but it seemed like a lot of work. She was describing some aspects of the work saying it could be on phones/emails/posting duty/ open days/ giving tours/ meeting and greeting/sorting out advertising/social media and everything else. It seemed fairly hectic IMO. But at the same time a great opportunity. I'd love to do it. Im starting to think €100 is quite unfair. She mentioned the companies profits trippled last year also!

I'm between a rock and a hard place. Are they allowed do that? A private company? Should I ask for more? Expenses? HELP! I'm expecting to hear back very soon so any response would be great Thanks!

davo10

daveytheravey wrote: »

Hello Everyone,

I'm new to this form but I do have some questions! So recently I applied for a marketing internship in a private college in my area. Well respected too. I didnt think much of it at the time and with most jobs wasn't expecting to hear anything back from it.

Then all of a sudden invited to a formal interview. She seemed like a lovely woman etc and was describing the job ect. She was very impressed with my self employed event management company I run at a very young age. She was fascinated with the social media and questioned me a lot on it. We were talking about all sorts for over an hour and a half. Without being cocky she seemed as if she was about to offer me the job but had some more interviews.

When she mentioned pay I expected minimum wage or even more. She kept mentioning it was modest and I bit the bullet and asked how much. €100 a week. For the work and hours she was describing it fairly much seemed like a 10-5 job 5 days a week. Now it sounded like a great opportunity but it seemed like a lot of work. She was describing some aspects of the work saying it could be on phones/emails/posting duty/ open days/ giving tours/ meeting and greeting/sorting out advertising/social media and everything else. It seemed fairly hectic IMO. But at the same time a great opportunity. I'd love to do it. Im starting to think €100 is quite unfair. She mentioned the companies profits trippled last year also!

I'm between a rock and a hard place. Are they allowed do that? A private company? Should I ask for more? Expenses? HELP! I'm expecting to hear back very soon so any response would be great Thanks!

You applied for an internship, not a job. You have outlined the benefits to you but there may be very little benefit for the college, they could hire someone with experience and pay them the wage you feel you deserve.

You need to decide, are you more interested in the internship or getting a full wage, if it's the latter then perhaps you should be applying for jobs rather than internships.

daveytheravey

davo10 wrote: »

You applied for an internship, not a job. You have outlined the benefits to you but there may be very little benefit for the college, they could hire someone with experience and pay them the wage you feel you deserve.

You need to decide, are you more interested in the internship or getting a full wage, if it's the latter then perhaps you should be applying for jobs rather than internships.

'' As an intern - provided you are doing work of value to the employer, have a similar level of supervision and responsibility as the rest of the workforce - then you are likely to be entitled to be paid at least the national minimum wage regardless of what title your employer has put on you ''

That was an extract from the ICTU.ie website. And I basically am mirroring the work of my presumed boss. Doing exactly what she's doing. Emails, calls, phones etc!

I'd love the experience and I'd be good at it but I am worth more than €100 for a 40 hour week

davo10

daveytheravey wrote: »

'' As an intern - provided you are doing work of value to the employer, have a similar level of supervision and responsibility as the rest of the workforce - then you are likely to be entitled to be paid at least the national minimum wage regardless of what title your employer has put on you ''

That was an extract from the ICTU.ie website. And I basically am mirroring the work of my presumed boss. Doing exactly what she's doing. Emails, calls, phones etc!

I'd love the experience and I'd be good at it but I am worth more than €100 for a 40 hour week

You are applying for an internship, they may not need you and if they do need someone they could employ a more experienced person. If you want the benefit of the experience, take it, if you want higher wages, tell them, they can give the internship to someone else.

The extract above is from a Union website, and they use the word "likely".

daveytheravey

davo10 wrote: »

You are applying for an internship, they may not need you and if they do need someone they could employ a more experienced person. If you want the benefit of the experience, take it, if you want higher wages, tell them, they can give the internship to someone else.

The extract above is from a Union website, and they use the word "likely".

They do need a person thats the point, she is snowed under with work, working till 10 at night. I will be taking on a big load of work. Did you read the extract from the ICTU website i sent in? I may be a bit ballsy and ask for more, whats the worst that can happen.

Avatar MIA

daveytheravey wrote: »

I'd love the experience and I'd be good at it but I am worth more than €100 for a 40 hour week

Good for you, hold out.

daveytheravey wrote: »

I may be a bit ballsy and ask for more, whats the worst that can happen.

Nothing wrong with that. However, while it sounds like a hectic job, it's not exactly a difficult job (apart perhaps from 'sorting out the advertising' which could be posters in the local shop) and it's likely they will go with another candidate that will suck up the low pay and eventually use the experience to move on. That's what an intern job is about.

mahamageehad

daveytheravey wrote: »

They do need a person thats the point, she is snowed under with work, working till 10 at night. I will be taking on a big load of work. Did you read the extract from the ICTU website i sent in? I may be a bit ballsy and ask for more, whats the worst that can happen.

They could get someone else who's interested in the internship and you'll miss the opportunity?

Seriously, I think you're being a bit precious here. They've clearly outlined the money available and they've outlined that it's an internship. Many internships are unpaid, particularly in your industry. I think you're being much too literal here and seeing the 100 as "all" you're getting. Getting a foot in the door in the industry is immensely valuable.

Unless you're giving up a paid job to take this internship, I think you'd be mad to give it up. An internship should be for a set period of time- let's say 10 weeks. You'll earn 1000 but invaluable experience. At that stage, if you've played your cards right, you'll be indispensable and can either leave with your money, a good reference and experience or hopefully transition into a paid employee. Going in with an entitled attitude before you start is a bad idea IMO.

daveytheravey

Avatar MIA wrote: »

Good for you, hold out.



Nothing wrong with that. However, while it sounds like a hectic job, it's not exactly a difficult job (apart perhaps from 'sorting out the advertising' which could be posters in the local shop) and it's likely they will go with another candidate that will suck up the low pay and eventually use the experience to move on. That's what an intern job is about.

Thanks for the the advice! Well the advertising seems a bit more demanding, working out budget, visiting radio stations, scripting etc. Then the open days in various venues around the county. Seems a bit all over the place which is what I'd love meeting people and interacting. Didnt seem to have many applicants for the job. The word internship is dodgy you never know what you're getting into!

daveytheravey

mahamageehad wrote: »

They could get someone else who's interested in the internship and you'll miss the opportunity?

Seriously, I think you're being a bit precious here. They've clearly outlined the money available and they've outlined that it's an internship. Many internships are unpaid, particularly in your industry. I think you're being much too literal here and seeing the 100 as "all" you're getting. Getting a foot in the door in the industry is immensely valuable.

Unless you're giving up a paid job to take this internship, I think you'd be mad to give it up. An internship should be for a set period of time- let's say 10 weeks. You'll earn 1000 but invaluable experience. At that stage, if you've played your cards right, you'll be indispensable and can either leave with your money, a good reference and experience or hopefully transition into a paid employee. Going in with an entitled attitude before you start is a bad idea IMO.

Thanks for your opinion! Its not that I'm going in with a bad attitude but the pay is a bit of a turn off for anyone. Considering I earn big sums with the sole trader I run every few months! But hopefully I could get expenses or something. I'll see how it pans out. But I'm just asking is it legal to pay that much after what I read on the ICTU site?

Avatar MIA

daveytheravey wrote: »

Thanks for the the advice! Well the advertising seems a bit more demanding, working out budget, visiting radio stations, scripting etc. Then the open days in various venues around the county. Seems a bit all over the place which is what I'd love meeting people and interacting. Didnt seem to have many applicants for the job. The word internship is dodgy you never know what you're getting into!

That does sound interesting. Funny you should mention radio stations, now that's one industry that lives on interns.

If you do take it make sure you get your expenses covered, and possibly in advance considering it is lowly paid.

My take on a good intern/jobsbridge is that the right one (which is key) is worth it. We're prepared to spend thousands to get an education, this is similar. It should eventually set you up for a good job.

daveytheravey

Avatar MIA wrote: »

That does sound interesting. Funny you should mention radio stations, now that's one industry that lives on interns.

If you do take it make sure you get your expenses covered, and possibly in advance considering it is lowly paid.

My take on a good intern/jobsbridge is that the right one (which is key) is worth it. We're prepared to spend thousands to get an education, this is similar. It should eventually set you up for a good job.

This is a very valid point thank you. As it is a private company and nothing is subsidised by the state are they able/entitled to pay below minimum wage? Thanks

Avatar MIA

daveytheravey wrote: »

This is a very valid point thank you. As it is a private company and nothing is subsidised by the state are they able/entitled to pay below minimum wage? Thanks

For an internship they may not even pay you. That they are paying you something I'm not 100% clear myself to be honest.

irish_dave_83

daveytheravey wrote: »

Thanks for the the advice! Well the advertising seems a bit more demanding, working out budget, visiting radio stations, scripting etc. Then the open days in various venues around the county. Seems a bit all over the place which is what I'd love meeting people and interacting. Didn't seem to have many applicants for the job. The word internship is dodgy you never know what you're getting into!

How long is the internship for. The work you are describing is pretty standard for the field of work you are in. It is interesting and exciting too, and will give you great B2B experience. If you do really well you may get a job out of it. Plus I imagine all your expenses are paid when you are at venue's around the country so its not all bad. I'd say take it, work hard and see what happens in the end. Worst thing that can happen is that don't get kept on but have decent experience and you get a great reference.

daveytheravey

irish_dave_83 wrote: »

How long is the internship for. The work you are describing is pretty standard for the field of work you are in. It is interesting and exciting too, and will give you great B2B experience. If you do really well you may get a job out of it. Plus I imagine all your expenses are paid when you are at venue's around the country so its not all bad. I'd say take it, work hard and see what happens in the end. Worst thing that can happen is that don't get kept on but have decent experience and you get a great reference.

Its for mainly the rest of summer into late September dealing with new college entries/CAO offers etc! You're so right hopefully I'll get called and I will keep ye updated

Mrs OBumble

daveytheravey wrote: »

This is a very valid point thank you. As it is a private company and nothing is subsidised by the state are they able/entitled to pay below minimum wage? Thanks

As far as I know, if it's not Jobridge, the they're not allowed to pay less than minimum wage. They can take you as an unpaid intern, though.

daveytheravey

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

As far as I know, if it's not Jobridge, the they're not allowed to pay less than minimum wage. They can take you as an unpaid intern, though.

Thanks for your input! Thats interesting. So you're saying €100 is not legal? Is there any state body who I should contact to get a definite answer?

Buttercake

daveytheravey wrote: »

Thanks for your input! Thats interesting. So you're saying €100 is not legal? Is there any state body who I should contact to get a definite answer?

Its not a Jobbridge internship where the state pays you an allowance on top of your social.

With an internship, many companies give an "allowance" at their discretion to cover travel and lunch which is probably what this is, the are not giving you a wage because you are not an employee. €100 a week is quite good, many companies pay €80 a month or nothing.

Consult your solicitor if you have any legal employment questions or you could debate many other permutations while they give the internship to someone else.

daveytheravey

Buttercake wrote: »

Its not a Jobbridge internship where the state pays you an allowance on top of your social.

With an internship, many companies give an "allowance" at their discretion to cover travel and lunch which is probably what this is, the are not giving you a wage because you are not an employee. €100 a week is quite good, many companies pay €80 a month or nothing.

Consult your solicitor if you have any legal employment questions or you could debate many other permutations while they give the internship to someone else.

Seems like internships are one big grey area and nobody really knows whats going on!! heheh

mahamageehad

daveytheravey wrote: »

Seems like internships are one big grey area and nobody really knows whats going on!! heheh

I don't think internships are a grey area at all, it's perfectly legal to offer an internship for no pay! Job bridge is different, it's a completely different scheme with government backing and different motives.

I still think it's a bit cheeky to negotiate on pay in an internship you haven't even started. I would say that asking for expenses is reasonable though.

I know you have experience as a sole trader but tbh that mightn't be enough. Often it shows motivation but doesn't necessarily prove that you're able to work as part of a team. I think the internship will be a massive help to you in future. At the end of the day you're really only talking about 3 months.

daveytheravey

mahamageehad wrote: »

I don't think internships are a grey area at all, it's perfectly legal to offer an internship for no pay! Job bridge is different, it's a completely different scheme with government backing and different motives.

I still think it's a bit cheeky to negotiate on pay in an internship you haven't even started. I would say that asking for expenses is reasonable though.

I know you have experience as a sole trader but tbh that mightn't be enough. Often it shows motivation but doesn't necessarily prove that you're able to work as part of a team. I think the internship will be a massive help to you in future. At the end of the day you're really only talking about 3 months.

Yes a good idea, I might ask for expenses for travel/food. I don't want to negotiate but I just want to ask if its legal I keep quoting about the ICTU website in recent posts mentioning if the work is similar to employer and requires the same level of responsibility I would be entitled to Minimum wage. But, you are all right the experience will stand to me in the future so if offered I will take it

Avatar MIA

daveytheravey wrote: »

Yes a good idea, I might ask for expenses for travel/food. I don't want to negotiate but I just want to ask if its legal I keep quoting about the ICTU website in recent posts mentioning if the work is similar to employer and requires the same level of responsibility I would be entitled to Minimum wage. But, you are all right the experience will stand to me in the future so if offered I will take it

Re the ICTU paragraph, are there other full time employees doing the same work as you would be doing, that's what I took from the ICTU paragraph.

Stheno

daveytheravey wrote: »

l I keep quoting about the ICTU website in recent posts mentioning if the work is similar to employer and requires the same level of responsibility I would be entitled to Minimum wage.)

That's not what the page you quoted said though, it said its likely you'd be entitled. Given its the ictu I'd take that as there is no legal requirement in law

mahamageehad

daveytheravey wrote: »

Yes a good idea, I might ask for expenses for travel/food. I don't want to negotiate but I just want to ask if its legal I keep quoting about the ICTU website in recent posts mentioning if the work is similar to employer and requires the same level of responsibility I would be entitled to Minimum wage. But, you are all right the experience will stand to me in the future so if offered I will take it

As has been pointed out though the ICTU is a trade union site rather than a legal site. In practice there is no definition of intern in Irish law. The ICTU claims that minimum wage could be required is based on whether or not the courts view you as an intern or employee and it's only theoretical as it's never been tested. Again, unpaid internships are completely legal.

daveytheravey

mahamageehad wrote: »

As has been pointed out though the ICTU is a trade union site rather than a legal site. In practice there is no definition of intern in Irish law. The ICTU claims that minimum wage could be required is based on whether or not the courts view you as an intern or employee and it's only theoretical as it's never been tested. Again, unpaid internships are completely legal.

Okay, I get you! Thanks so much for the help

mahamageehad

daveytheravey wrote: »

Okay, I get you! Thanks so much for the help

Best of luck!!! make the most of it!!!

daveytheravey

Avatar MIA wrote: »

Re the ICTU paragraph, are there other full time employees doing the same work as you would be doing, that's what I took from the ICTU paragraph.

Yes there would be an employee doing the exact same work. I am essentially a mini her. She would want me to do all her jobs that she is doing. I'm just cutting down on her workload. Thats what I understood too. She even said it herself at the interview I would be her assistant, everything she's doing I would be doing too. Nothing different for either of us!

Avatar MIA

daveytheravey wrote: »

Yes there would be an employee doing the exact same work. I am essentially a mini her. She would want me to do all her jobs that she is doing. I'm just cutting down on her workload. Thats what I understood too. She even said it herself at the interview I would be her assistant, everything she's doing I would be doing too. Nothing different for either of us!

Hmmm. Unfortunately for you you might have a case. This means you could take the high moral ground and sneer at the person that actually does take the job for being taken advantage of.

What you could do is take the job, and shortly afterwards say, 'I just realised I should be getting minimum wage, D'oh! How do we sort this out?'

You might get the pay increase, or they may end the internship. You could then take a case. But, would it be worth it?!?

daveytheravey

Avatar MIA wrote: »

Hmmm. Unfortunately for you you might have a case. This means you could take the high moral ground and sneer at the person that actually does take the job for being taken advantage of.

What you could do is take the job, and shortly afterwards say, 'I just realised I should be getting minimum wage, D'oh! How do we sort this out?'

You might get the pay increase, or they may end the internship. You could then take a case. But, would it be worth it?!?

Yes, valid point, is it worth it. Even the title of the job was 'Marketing Assistant Internship' They left out any pay specifications in the Ad hmmm...... It just seems like a lot of work and 40 hours a week at 100.... Pros and Cons to everything. C'est la vie!