is there anything we can do

cats1967

Hi looking for some advice. We got our attic converted in 2008. Used a recommended builder. Unfortunately didn't get an architect....trying to save money.....we are selling our house. We got an engineer in to get a cert of compliance for the attic as can't sell without this. We are now facing costs of 6k plus as the original builder never used any steel to reinforce the roof. Original builder is only short of laughing at us and denies any wrong doing. So angry and don't know what to do.

Gumbo

cats1967 wrote: »

Hi looking for some advice. We got our attic converted in 2008. Used a recommended builder. Unfortunately didn't get an architect....trying to save money.....we are selling our house. We got an engineer in to get a cert of compliance for the attic as can't sell without this. We are now facing costs of 6k plus as the original builder never used any steel to reinforce the roof. Original builder is only short of laughing at us and denies any wrong doing. So angry and don't know what to do.

I don't think there's anything you can do here.
Ultimately, responsibility on building regulation compliance lays at the building owner and it's you that must ensure its compliance. By not appointing an engineer, or architect or even a technician to have a look at the time means you lay your faith with the builder.

Anyway, that's the "I told you so" out of the way.

How about getting another engineer to have a look at it. Steel is not your only option. It can be done in timber but it all depends on what the original builder put up there. Did he strengthen the joists, did he create the proper fire escape etc

bemak

is the attic technically considered a habitable space? if this builder is as negligent as you say, I'd question whether it is.

Gumbo

bemak wrote: »

is the attic technically considered a habitable space? if this builder is as negligent as you say, I'd question whether it is.

Irrespective the building regulations don't define habitable space or not. They class it as an additional storey.

bemak

kceire wrote: »

Irrespective the building regulations don't define habitable space or not. They class it as an additional storey.

Sorry, I was under the impression that for an attic space to be considered a habitable space (i.e. an additional bedroom), it would need to comply with Diagram 5 in TGD-F (below). Otherwise it could only be considered as 'storage space'.

Gumbo

bemak wrote: »

Sorry, I was under the impression that for an attic space to be considered a habitable space (i.e. an additional bedroom), it would need to comply with Diagram 5 in TGD-F (below). Otherwise it could only be considered as 'storage space'.

It's only a suggested height. There's many more reasons why it can be an accessible room , such as escape

bemak

ya its funny the way it says 'suggested' on one hand and then 'min' on the diagrams.

I never said 'accessible', I said 'habitable' but I agree, there are other considerations such as escape like you say. we don't even know if the house is a two-storey or bungalow. If it's the latter, the escape issues are more easily dealt with.

I'm presuming that the reason why the OP had asked an engineer to certify the attic space was because it was providing them with an additional bedroom and for that bedroom to be recognised as a bedroom in the sale of the house it needs to be certified. And to achieve this certification the space must have adequate structure in place to deal with the additional loads associated with a bedroom use. However, even if the OP did remedial structural works, unless the attic space meets the requirements for Escape and ventilation (as per the diagram) then it still can't be considered as a bedroom - if that is what the OP is looking to achieve from all this.

Gumbo

bemak wrote: »

ya its funny the way it says 'suggested' on one hand and then 'min' on the diagrams.

I never said 'accessible', I said 'habitable' but I agree, there are other considerations such as escape like you say. we don't even know if the house is a two-storey or bungalow. If it's the latter, the escape issues are more easily dealt with.

I'm presuming that the reason why the OP had asked an engineer to certify the attic space was because it was providing them with an additional bedroom and for that bedroom to be recognised as a bedroom in the sale of the house it needs to be certified. And to achieve this certification the space must have adequate structure in place to deal with the additional loads associated with a bedroom use. However, even if the OP did remedial structural works, unless the attic space meets the requirements for Escape and ventilation (as per the diagram) then it still can't be considered as a bedroom - if that is what the OP is looking to achieve from all this.

Strange one alright. From a planning perspective bedrooms may not be allowed, but from a building control perspective then it doesn't have to meet bedroom status, you still require the structural elements to carry the floor, means of escape velux and Fire door.

It's a messy situation, and one that should be clarified by the Dept. of Environment as Part B (Fire Safety) doesn't 100% resolve the issue.

I have this argument with builders and home owners on a daily basis

Water John

Can you sell declaring this as a storage space?
Unless the builder disimproved the original structure it is as designed in structural terms.

bemak

kceire wrote:

It's a messy situation, and one that should be clarified by the Dept. of Environment as Part B (Fire Safety) doesn't 100% resolve the issue.

It really is. Would be great to have the support they have in the UK here with regards building control etc

Gumbo

Water John wrote: »

Can you sell declaring this as a storage space?
Unless the builder disimproved the original structure it is as designed in structural terms.

You cannot declare it as anything as its structurally unsound in the opinion of an engineer.

bemak wrote: »

It really is. Would be great to have the support they have in the UK here with regards building control etc

Building control provide a lot of support here, they openly offer advice to contractors and welcome requests for clarification (Dublin anyway). They problem is the issues arise in homes that want to stay of the radar.