watches as investment

handlemaster

Do people buy watches with the knowledge that they have in the past gone up in value? What watches are a good investment for this purpose ?

Wibbs

Unless you were buying certain rarified examples back in the 80's and 90's and maybe a couple into the new century, then the vast majority of vintage watches were not investments. At best they hold their value, maybe you can make some bank if you get lucky on the buying side.

As for buying those rarified examples back in the day? Take something like Rolex MilSubs. Sure they were going for a couple of grand back in the 90's but you had to source one and pre interwebs that was not easy. More a case of luck unless you were in the trade. Indeed unless you were in the trade and had specific knowledge you'd likely not even know what a Milsub was.

Fashion came into it too. Steel sport rolex weren't worth a damn, or very little pre interwebs. Daytona's couldn't get arrested. They weren't made in huge numbers in the first place mainly because they just didn't sell. Ditto for many Heuer models when new. In the late 90's I remember 1930's small Rolex Bubblebacks were all the rage and were climbing in value and today you almost never hear about them. Military watches were "meh" and mostly cheap enough. Today?

The internet effect. This has made them easier to source, easier to gain knowledge on, but has brought more people into the market and has inflated the market and not just naturally. Look at how Enicar watches have jumped in 18 months. That's before we get to the aspirational merkin man bag manhattan hipster types a la Hodinkee pushing up prices.

In short and in my humble this would be about the worst time to 'invest" in watches. The market is a bubble in many areas. Rolex, Heuer, Enicar, Omega and a few others. Patek not so much. They were always pretty expensive, now it's usually just wall street dudes and dodgier money having a dick measuring contest at overblown auctions and the same watches change hands at unseemly speeds(Hmmmm…).

Market is a bubble. Will likely burst and only some rare, actually rare models will survive it. There are worst things than watches to buy depreciation wise, but there are far better options for investment.

My 3 cents.

firestarter51

hasnt the price of used rolex gone up 20% in the past five years looking at the current market ?

Wibbs

Rolex in particular are a good example of the bubble in the market. When the tackiest of models the Day-Date's are fetching silly money at hyped up auctions the madness is evident.

blue5000

Perhaps this might be a good time to sell?

Facebook watches group I peruse.... a jeweller in Glasgow put up pics of a Rolex "5513 with marginally faded, but very legible insert. Just serviced for, and worn by a young lady who was given it by her father. I'm not sure he realises its value?"........... he reckoned it's "worth" £8-9k easily, was bought for " insured for £3750.00, the cost of a new Sub' 10 years ago!"

I bought an apartment in 2005 for ....... :pac:

blue5000

Perhaps we should ask David McWilliams when he thinks the Rolex bubble is going to burst:D

Winterlong

To make proper money from watches I reckon you would need to do either

1) Buy a George Daniels watch - or two, put it in a vault for a couple of decades and then sell. You need serious capital to do this. Dont forget to spend some money on maintaining them in that time. Dont want them siezing up!

2) Go to Baselworld. Try to identify the next 'iconic' watch by one of the main brands. Buy a few of them, put them and their papers in a vault for a couple of decades (at least!) and then sell. Dont forget to spend some money on maintaining them in that time. Dont want them siezing up! A decent amount of capital would be needed here too.

If you just want to dabble then buy a few mispriced vintages today, look after them for a long time and hope that the price increase beats inflation etc...

saccades

3) find an old watch shop with NOS seikos from the 70's.



The millions of cheap watches made that are now worth silly money.

Wibbs

saccades wrote: »

3) find an old watch shop with NOS seikos from the 70's.



The millions of cheap watches made that are now worth silly money.

That's the thing though, Seiko's were not cheap at the time. Few enough of the old watches from back in the day, that were actually cheap back then are worth much today. One of the few I can think of is Sicura. They were a cheap pin pallet fashion watch, a type that the new quartz digitals pretty much killed overnight, but because of the (tenuous) Breitling connection Sicura hold some value in the market.

It's generally a good rule of thumb that outside of certain collectables* quality lasts and hold value. Stuff that is expensive now as vintage was expensive then when new. Very few watches(or antiques for that matter) break that general rule. We see that in classic cars too. Sure a Ferrari 250 GTO is many millions of quid today, but they were never a "cheap" car.

Though you can get outliers. For many years a brand like Longines was one such(and still is to some degree). They were right up there public mind when new, but because of Swatch group marketing came to be seen as lesser than other brands. Technology and fashion can affect markets too of course. So after the "mechanical has soul and is made by Swiss fairies in sylvan glades" marketing worked the magic, quartz dropped off in value in the market. So extremely expensive top end quartz of the time was and is going for far less than it was first sold at. EG the 1970's Omega Marine Chronometer. Even today still one of the most accurate autonomous timekeepers. When new you could buy 8 or 10(yep) Rolex Submariners for the price of one. Crazy money. Today? Two odd grand will get you one.




*stuff like Film posters and very old comics that simply didn't survive in great numbers because of an inherent fragility, but hold affection and interest for collectors far beyond their inherent quality.