Fantasy Road Network

skywanderer

This is a fantasy thread and I don't want current issues discussed, purely hypothetical fantasy.

The year is 2020, a great meteorite struck the middle east wiping out Iran, Saudi Arabia and over 90% of the worlds Oil resources. With an amazing stroke of luck the same meteorite caused great tectonic plate disturbance resulting in 2 trillion barrels of oil bubbling to the surface and being discovered 100 miles west of the Skellig Michael Rock in Kerry. Ireland now supplies over 90% of the worlds Oil and finds itself with incredible wealth. After its 7th election since 2016 Ireland has a Government hingeing on the support of Independent TD Tom Aunt from Leitrim a fierce critic of the roads infrastructure. As Taoiseach you offer him an unlimited chequebook with orders to connect up the country by Motorway and swiftly appoint him Minister for Transport.

What would you build to compliment the current roads infrastructure and how and why would do it.

This is my Map, with blue being my new motorways and Red Motorways currently under construction.

medoc

A cross country motorway along the line of the existing N52 connecting from the M7 to the M1 and all the motorways in between. Allows south west to Northern Ireland traffic to avoid Dublin. In fact something like that would be a good idea today though more likely as 2+2 with limited access points rather than full motorway.

SeanW

skywanderer wrote: »

... After its 7th election since 2016 Ireland has a Government hingeing on the support of Independent TD Tom Aunt from Leitrim a fierce critic of the roads infrastructure. As Taoiseach you offer him an unlimited chequebook with orders to connect up the country by Motorway and swiftly appoint him Minister for Transport.

What would you build to compliment the current roads infrastructure and how and why would do it.

In this hypothetical scenario, one would imagine oneself being TD Tom Aunt from Letrim who gets the chequebook, rather than the Taoiseach who gives him the chequebook?

That aside, here's my list:

1. Upgrade the N4 to M4 along its entire length. From its junction with the M50, through to a bypass of Sligo town to a new junction with the N15 just North of it.
2. Continue the M6 to beyond Galway providing a city bypass for speedy access from the East of the country to the N59 and the Connemara road. All grade separated, M6 to the N59 junction, motorway section of Regional road to the terminus of the bypass on the Connemara Road. Only Grade Separated Junctions to be provided en-route, and only at interchanges with other National roads, to protect the bypass from bad planning turning it into a suburban "Main Street".
3. Eliminate Irelands "Cumberland Gap" by providing a new Athlone Bypass to the South, full Motorway M6 from Day 1. Provide GSJ with the N62. Reroute the N55 leaving Athlone to begin on the M6 and continue to beyond Ballykeeran. (After some seriously bad sections in Co. Cavan, the part in and around Ballykeeran is easily the worst part of the N55).
4. Upgrade all National Dual Carriageways that end as Motorways just before the M50 - the N3, N4, N7, N2. Continue them as Motorways to the M50.
5. Upgrade the N2 from the current Northern terminus of its motorway to motorway to beyond Slane, providing a bypass of that town. The 16th century single lane bridge through there is ridiculous.
6. The M20. Obvious.
7. The M1 - continue it to the border and work with the Nordies to continue it north of the border to Lisburn. Redesignate the existing Northern M1 West of Lisburn to M4 to match its actual A4 routing.
8. Continue the currently pathetic M12 from Craigavon along the route of the A3 across the border into Monaghan. There it replaces the current N12 from the border to Monaghan. Just for ****s and giggles.
9. Upgrade the N40 in Cork, the HQDC section of N22 to Motorway and continue a new section of M22 to the Cork/Kerry border.
10. Provide grade separated, full-speed movements for non-Dublin focused traffic through the junctions of M4-M6, M7-M9 and M7-M8. (E.g. M6 Eastound to M4 Westbound etc).

_Kaiser_

- Create a route that would allow inbound traffic on the M7 to get to places like Sandyford/Cherrywood without having to go anywhere near the Red Cow
- Full outer-orbital bypass for similar traffic going to the likes of Meath or Louth
- Create a secondary southbound route to take pressure off the M7. Absolute nonsense that Cork, Limerick, Waterford and places in between are served by a single 2-lane motorway out of Dublin
- Increase motorway limits to 140 km/h standard with variable limits on the likes of the M50 or Cork's N40 subject to traffic and conditions. No reason why these couldn't also be 120+ off-peak

Carawaystick

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

- Create a secondary southbound route to take pressure off the M7. Absolute nonsense that Cork, Limerick, Waterford and places in between are served by a single 2-lane motorway out of Dublin

The M7 is being widned to a D3M from Naas south to the M9.

SeanW wrote:

Upgrade the N2 from the current Northern terminus of its motorway to motorway to beyond Slane, providing a bypass of that town. The 16th century single lane bridge through there is ridiculous.

Alternatively detrunk, the N2 and start it at the existing N33/M1 junction.

SeanW wrote:

The M1 - continue it to the border and work with the Nordies to continue it north of the border to Lisburn. Redesignate the existing Northern M1 West of Lisburn to M4 to match its actual A4 routing.

What difference in practise would changing the N1 hqdc @ 120 kmh to M1 make?

munchkin_utd

Firstly, the glaringly obvious missing link is Waterford to Limerick but thats self explainatory.

Also some form of a Dublin outer ring further out than simply a slightly offset paralell M50. The most practical one would be to upgrade the N52 (exact routing depending on rock worshipping hippies around the boyne valley) via Navan-Mullingar-Tullamore and onto Portlaoise.
With all the extra wealth in the country, you would need to expand those medium sized towns so an outer ring linking them would be vital.

and seeing as we have stupid amounts of cash needing to be burnt, a link from Dublin to Hollyhead would be needed akin to the channel tunnel from Uk to France.

Of course, you'd then need the M50 to be completed along the east coast between Dublin port (/Irish sea tunnel) and Dun laoighre to allow access from the south, but with unlimited funding you'd just stick it in a tunnel offshore and keep the tree huggers reasonably happy.

jd

Some kind of outer leinster route

medoc

jd wrote: »

Some kind of outer leinster route

And branch off near Tullamore to join up with the M7 at Neenah or even Roscrea

marno21

In reality, a decent N52 and N80 would be very beneficial to the midlands. Not motorway standard, but decent S2 with passing lanes and town bypasses/ring road systems.

Jack Killian

Add Galway - Waterford, crossing the N7 as close to Lough Derg as possible to work in Limerick, plus Limerick > Athlone > Cavan > North and I'd say all major centres would be covered, avoiding the Dublin-centric fan-out that we currently have.

Debatable as to whether or not it should be train lines instead of motorways though; if we joined up the country with decent, affordable routes then the road network would be nowhere near as essential.

SeanW

Carawaystick wrote: »

Alternatively detrunk, the N2 and start it at the existing N33/M1 junction.

1. The current route is too crap even for a Regional road. It would need a bypass anyway.
2. As both the M3 and M1 are tolled, large volumes of traffic would continue to use it for toll dodging.
3. The distance between Ashbourne and Slane is not great.

What difference in practise would changing the N1 hqdc @ 120 kmh to M1 make?

1. It would be safer, no tractors or cyclists. No parking. etc.
2. It would be forever protected against inappropriate development. In an Irish context, history is clear. The only way to protect a road from inappropriate development is to declare it motorway.
3. It would be part of a full M1 Dublin-Belfast.

Chris_5339762

While we're throwing virtual money at huge infrastructure projects, throw the Dublin Eastern bypass in there and complete the M7 to the M50 J8 as per the original plans (which have never come out AFAIK)

Mint Sauce

skywanderer wrote: »

This is a fantasy thread and I don't want current issues discussed, purely hypothetical fantasy.

The year is 2020, a great meteorite struck the middle east wiping out Iran, Saudi Arabia and over 90% of the worlds Oil resources. With an amazing stroke of luck the same meteorite caused great tectonic plate disturbance resulting in 2 trillion barrels of oil bubbling to the surface and being discovered 100 miles west of the Skellig Michael Rock in Kerry. Ireland now supplies over 90% of the worlds Oil and finds itself with incredible wealth. After its 7th election since 2016 Ireland has a Government hingeing on the support of Independent TD Tom Aunt from Leitrim a fierce critic of the roads infrastructure. As Taoiseach you offer him an unlimited chequebook with orders to connect up the country by Motorway and swiftly appoint him Minister for Transport.

What would you build to compliment the current roads infrastructure and how and why would do it.

This is my Map, with blue being my new motorways and Red Motorways currently under construction.

All looks good, but why not link Donegal Town and Letterkenny whilst at it? Even with all these resources we're still the forgotten county.

_Kaiser_

Carawaystick wrote: »

The M7 is being widned to a D3M from Naas south to the M9.

I know... but all that'll do is move the mess at the Naas exit/J9 a bit further south. I don't leave the office before 7 on a Friday as there's usually no point.

If there's an accident (frequently) on it or the M50 the whole thing gets even worse.

What I'm suggesting is something like an upgraded N81 (with HQDC link roads between it and the M7 every few junctions) so that at least there'd be an alternative way south.

marno21

Mint Sauce wrote: »

All looks good, but why not link Donegal Town and Letterkenny whilst at it? Even with all these resources we're still the forgotten county.

A plan for an M585 but no M15 is very surprising!

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

I know... but all that'll do is move the mess at the Naas exit/J9 a bit further south. I don't leave the office before 7 on a Friday as there's usually no point.

If there's an accident (frequently) on it or the M50 the whole thing gets even worse.

What I'm suggesting is something like an upgraded N81 (with HQDC link roads between it and the M7 every few junctions) so that at least there'd be an alternative way south.

There was a plan before to continue the M7 from J9 to a newly created J8 on the M50. Not sure if the corridor was ever protected, but it's unlikely now after the upgrading of the N7 to D3AP.

Carawaystick

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

I know... but all that'll do is move the mess at the Naas exit/J9 a bit further south. I don't leave the office before 7 on a Friday as there's usually no point.

If there's an accident (frequently) on it or the M50 the whole thing gets even worse.

What I'm suggesting is something like an upgraded N81 (with HQDC link roads between it and the M7 every few junctions) so that at least there'd be an alternative way south.

Where do you suggest we stop building link roads from the N81 to the M7? South of Portlaoise?!

_Kaiser_

Carawaystick wrote: »

Where do you suggest we stop building link roads from the N81 to the M7? South of Portlaoise?!

Well once you get past Kildare (J13/14) things quieten down significantly.. that'd do.

JeffK88

Personally I think the one piece of infrastructure that is long overdue is the current M7/M9 junction. It needs to have slips for westbound /southbound access or traffic. The current route via the R413 through Kilcullen and across the curragh or by going up the M7 and U turning at Naas is a bit silly and long overdue. With the upgrade coming up you would think that this would be considered. Id say traffic numbers would justify the upgrade of the junction. especially if an outer bypass was built.Then the junction could be upgraded to full cloverleaf.

JeffK88

Something like this very crude junction examples

(1) Basic Junction

(2) The full future Junction Including outer bypass

Sam Russell

Why not just an over-bridge that allows a U turn on the northern side of the merge?

JeffK88

I suppose that would work but with the option of the planned (future) outer bypass would it not best to future proof the junction ?

Sam Russell

JeffK88 wrote: »

I suppose that would work but with the option of the planned (future) outer bypass would it not best to future proof the junction ?

Why? It would add a Km or so to a journey and cost very little and meet all requirements.

road_high

JeffK88 wrote: »

Personally I think the one piece of infrastructure that is long overdue is the current M7/M9 junction. It needs to have slips for westbound /southbound access or traffic. The current route via the R413 through Kilcullen and across the curragh or by going up the M7 and U turning at Naas is a bit silly and long overdue. With the upgrade coming up you would think that this would be considered. Id say traffic numbers would justify the upgrade of the junction. especially if an outer bypass was built.Then the junction could be upgraded to full cloverleaf.

Hear hear. I often go from Kilkenny to either Newbridge or Kildare town but have to pull off and use those roads across the Curragh. Adds 10 mins to a journey that would probably be only 5 or so if you could stay on the M9/7. That's a common journey too from Carlow and south Kildare. Shame all roads have to lead to Dublin. Simple things like this could ease the economic pressure off the capital rather than focusing everything there.

JeffK88

Sam Russell wrote: »

Why? It would add a Km or so to a journey and cost very little and meet all requirements.

I get where your coming from both for the sake of cheap skating and with this being a fantasy roads network why not go the full hog.

JeffK88

road_high wrote: »

Hear hear. I often go from Kilkenny to either Newbridge or Kildare town but have to pull off and use those roads across the Curragh. Adds 10 mins to a journey that would probably be only 5 or so if you could stay on the M9/7. That's a common journey too from Carlow and south Kildare. Shame all roads have to lead to Dublin. Simple things like this could ease the economic pressure off the capital rather than focusing everything there.

The route across the Curragh is dire for connecting two primary routes. The other alternative is to upgrade the R413 considerable which would prove difficult due to it crossing the Curragh and the need for another Kilcullen Bypass.

Sam Russell

JeffK88 wrote: »

I get where your coming from both for the sake of cheap skating and with this being a fantasy roads network why not go the full hog.

Why gold-plate taps? It is a neat, simple, easy, effective solution to a simple problem. It is not as if even 20% of traffic would use it - probably not even 5%.

It might be fantasy roads, but do you fantasise about covering the country with tarmac and bridges? That is not a fantasy I would share.

JeffK88

This upgrade is hardly covering the country in tarmac its a pretty standard upgrade to the junction covering a small space. Plenty of other schemes are completely over the top. We could argue all day over this one but either way something should be done about the junction either the full junction or the over-bridge you're suggesting.It doesn't have to be on the top priority list as other schemes are need more so. The likelihood of it ever going ahead is pretty low if not flat. But its one scheme I think would benefit Newbridge/Kildare Corridor imo.

Sam Russell

JeffK88 wrote: »

This upgrade is hardly covering the country in tarmac its a pretty standard upgrade to the junction covering a small space. Plenty of other schemes are completely over the top. We could argue all day over this one but either way something should be done about the junction either the full junction or the over-bridge you're suggesting.It doesn't have to be on the top priority list as other schemes are need more so. The likelihood of it ever going ahead is pretty low if not flat. But its one scheme I think would benefit Newbridge/Kildare Corridor imo.

The over-bridge U turn would be small potatoes compared to some other fantasy ideas. Perhaps it is not a fantasy road project - too cheap.

JeffK88

I also do not want to see the country covered in tarmac but what choice do we have when our public transport options are quite poor and the country is going through a motorway spurt that will no doubt end in the coming years.

Sam Russell

JeffK88 wrote: »

I also do not want to see the country covered in tarmac but what choice do we have when our public transport options are quite poor and the country is going through a motorway spurt that will no doubt end in the coming years.

Fantasise about railway lines and tram lines. With that amount os cash to spend, make public transport free.

JohnC.

Wouldn't that be off topic?

Sam Russell

JohnC. wrote: »

Wouldn't that be off topic?

Which bit - the fantasy or the public transport thing?

Surely, the thread is about spending countless billions of fictional new oil revenues to boost the countries infrastructure. Surely logic does not limit it to just motorways. There are other forms of infrastructure.

JeffK88

I say we go full Dubai. 😀 turn ourselves into a super state. Super High buildings with our own hyper loop transportation,Dublin air & spaceport with 5km runways to cater into the future, along with T3 T4 and SP5 ,smart road patrolled by roboguards on electric bikes. In fact convert the rail system into a hyper loop.Build a dublin metro with several lines. Build mass cycle infrasture along side the major routes between towns and cities. Build that mad sky way that was proposed from Heuston to city centre along with that New Dublin project/joke in Dublin bay that did the rounds a few years back with the giraffe only zoo and such. We do have billions so why not go wild

SeanW

Sam Russell wrote: »

Which bit - the fantasy or the public transport thing?

Surely, the thread is about spending countless billions of fictional new oil revenues to boost the countries infrastructure. Surely logic does not limit it to just motorways. There are other forms of infrastructure.

Then start a thread about fantasy railways ...

JohnC.

Sam Russell wrote: »

Which bit - the fantasy or the public transport thing?

Surely, the thread is about spending countless billions of fictional new oil revenues to boost the countries infrastructure. Surely logic does not limit it to just motorways. There are other forms of infrastructure.

It's just that the thread is "Fantasy Road Network"

prunudo

I'd like a road, doesn't necessarily have to be motorway, but decent quality going from somewhere between Wicklow and Arklow to Carlow. Linking the n11, n81 around Tullow, m9 and onto the n80. Would make access to the Midlands from East and south Wicklow an awful lot better.

hi5

Sam Russell wrote: »

Fantasise about railway lines and tram lines. With that amount os cash to spend, make public transport free.

We did have a fantasy rail network....

Sam Russell

hi5 wrote: »

We did have a fantasy rail network....

Doesn't that look a bit like the fantasy motorway network?