Bord Bia Audit

endfur

Is anyone else having the same problems as me trying to get certified with An Bord Bia. I lost certification last year because of issues with recording animal remedies and I said fair enough, my fault.

I waited the 6 months and applied to get certified again but failed again this morning because I forgot to record an animal drench I gave in March to cows going out on the grass. I had 47 individual remedies in the book from the past 12 months but forgot about the worm drench in March so I was failed.

Well that and the fact that I didnt have an up to date copy of the sheep register. I dont have sheep but was told I still had to have an up to date version of a sheep register.

Anyone else experiencing similar problems?

Never wrestle with pigs

How did he know you gave it to them in March?

DaDerv

Seems like you may have gotten a harsh enough inspector or perhaps they have to be that way considering you had a previous record. I just told mine I didn't have sheep anymore and he said that was fine. As for the drench, again seems a fairly simple mistake. Especially if you'd gone on to inform him/her. Are you sure there weren't other issues?

Sam Kade

What a joke, it's like being back in school and not having your homework done :rolleyes:

50HX

how do they know what remedies you buy??

say i buy 5 items during the year and i only record 2 for say fluke and lice at housing

they have no access to what vet you use or where you buy products

Sam Kade

50HX wrote: »

how do they know what remedies you buy??

say i buy 5 items during the year and i only record 2 for say fluke and lice at housing

they have no access to what vet you use or where you buy products

Don't you also need the printout of medicine you buy off your vet for them also the receipt from the co op for dosing. You also write down the vet you bought every item from.

FeelTheBern

The more you have in the book the more likely you are to make a mistake...

Base price

Know a farmer (personal friend) who lost his certification 2 years ago because the inspector reckoned that he was not using and thereby not recording enough dose for the size of his suckler herd.
He argued with the inspector after he received the news, informing the inspector that he got regular dung samples tested through his veterinary practitioner and there was no need to dose the hell outta the cattle. At the time of the initial inspection he told the inspector that he had a rigorous herd health programme in place.

tanko

50HX wrote: »

how do they know what remedies you buy??

say i buy 5 items during the year and i only record 2 for say fluke and lice at housing

they have no access to what vet you use or where you buy products

I always thought the department have access to the records of all vets, what medicines they sell and who they sell them to.

tractorporn

Base price wrote:

Know a farmer (personal friend) who lost his certification 2 years ago because the inspector reckoned that he was not using and thereby not recording enough dose for the size of his suckler herd. He argued with the inspector after he received the news, informing the inspector that he got regular dung samples tested through his veterinary practitioner and there was no need to dose the hell outta the cattle. At the time of the initial inspection he told the inspector that he had a rigorous herd health programme in place.

Know a couple of organic lads that had the same problem. The inspector wouldn't believe them that they had only given one dose during the year. I know one lad ran the inspector because of it.

Base price

tanko wrote: »

I always thought the department have access to the records of all vets, what medicines they sell and who they sell them to.

They do but afaik they only actively look for them if there is a problem either with a particular herd, vet or in an area where a problem/issue has occurred.

Sam Kade

tractorporn wrote: »

Know a couple of organic lads that had the same problem. The inspector wouldn't believe them that they had only given one dose during the year. I know one lad ran the inspector because of it.

My neighbour cleared the inspector after he complained about the cat having kittens in a loft.

Base price

Sam Kade wrote: »

My neighbour cleared the inspector after he complained about the cat having kittens in a loft.

:mad:

Tomjim

I heard they have got very strict around here as well

50HX

Sam Kade wrote: »

Don't you also need the printout of medicine you buy off your vet for them also the receipt from the co op for dosing. You also write down the vet you bought every item from.

a bit like buying the pesticides what's stopping me from going to a different place to purchase say Trodax, pay cash and give a diff name if i'm asked

printout from the vet... can't see this written down anywhere, similiar to how often you fill the bait stations

i'm all for following a scheme - but this Bord bia is becoming a bit of a joke esp when they start adding on requirements without any notification/justification

i will admit it's good for keeping things in shape around the esp paperwork

Sam Kade

50HX wrote: »

a bit like buying the pesticides what's stopping me from going to a different place to purchase say Trodax, pay cash and give a diff name if i'm asked

printout from the vet... can't see this written down anywhere, similiar to how often you fill the bait stations

i'm all for following a scheme - but this Bord bia is becoming a bit of a joke esp when they start adding on requirements without any notification/justification

i will admit it's good for keeping things in shape around the esp paperwork

Nothing, but would you really go to all that bother to avoid recording it?

The last inspection I had, which ws my first ever the inspector asked to see the printouts and she matched them to what I had recorded.

50HX

Sam Kade wrote: »

Nothing, but would you really go to all that bother to avoid recording it?

The last inspection I had, which ws my first ever the inspector asked to see the printouts and she matched them to what I had recorded.

personally no i would not go to that bother

just highlighting the flaw in the system that you don't have to record everything you purchase

as i said above it's the same as the pesticides

if they want it water tight then you should have an ID number that has to be given in when buying and no more messing with it then - it's all under your herd, why do the need to know how much each cow got - you bought it your accountable for it

if don't adhear to the withdrawl dates and your milk/meat fails then you get penalized for it

i've been down this road before working in the medical device industry and all this recording is generally a cosmetic exercise to paint a picture to buyers "look at how compliant we are"

other more straightforward ways of doing it... i think any

valtra2

I sell all as weanlings and never got to factory. Is there any point in been in board bia

Muckit

No not teally. Which is a joke. Missing out on all the suckler farmers.

They should have it structured in such a way that it is looked upon as a badge of pride to be a certified bord bia assured farm. Instead it cloaked in fear and viewed as another stick to beat farmer with.

Instead of just a piece of paper that gets thrown in the filing cabinet (or the fire), they should have a sign that gets given to those that pass which can be displayed proudly at the farm gate.

Like this one.

Muckit

Bord Bia Certified

FeelTheBern

valtra2 wrote: »

I sell all as weanlings and never got to factory. Is there any point in been in board bia

Not really at the moment. Unless maybe for cull cows if numbers plentiful and factories cutting price for non QA cattle.

Sam Kade

Muckit wrote: »

No not teally. Which is a joke. Missing out on all the suckler farmers.

They should have it structured in such a way that it is looked upon as a badge of pride to be a certified bord bia assured farm. Instead it cloaked in fear and viewed as another stick to beat farmer with.

Instead of just a piece of paper that gets thrown in the filing cabinet (or the fire), they should have a sign that gets given to those that pass which can be displayed proudly at the farm gate.

Like this one.

They're too busy thinking up the next silly regulation to fail farmers on :mad:
Anyone notice how inspectors differ? I had a pre inspection and was told to have a guard on milkingachine pump and motor during the inspection another inspector said that there was no need as it was in a separate room. The pre inspection said I needed new pro covers but at the inspection she didn't even look at the machinery.

_Brian

Muckit wrote: »

No not teally. Which is a joke. Missing out on all the suckler farmers.

They should have it structured in such a way that it is looked upon as a badge of pride to be a certified bord bia assured farm. Instead it cloaked in fear and viewed as another stick to beat farmer with.

Instead of just a piece of paper that gets thrown in the filing cabinet (or the fire), they should have a sign that gets given to those that pass which can be displayed proudly at the farm gate.

Like this one.

Where do I spend such badges you speak off??

Muckit

No what I'm saying is Bord Bia should be issuing these to compliant members. Like the plaques you see outside restaurants (Georgina Campbell etc). Perhaps the farmer wouldn't/shouldn't have to pay for it?

It could be a condition of compliance to have them displayed at gate same as with safety signage etc, but hopefully with a more positive slant put on things farmers would have more buy-in and would be only too happy to display them as a badge of pride.

It would give open and transparent advertising of the scheme and a more holistic view of things to Joe public travelling to town for the weekly shop. You see logo on the farmers gate. You see it on the meat products you purchase in the supermarket. A link is made and the loop is closed.

And we could kill off once and for all the fictitious 'it's all down to the rain' character, giving credit where credit is due to the farmer and his/her good husbandry practices.

endfur

DaDerv wrote: »

Seems like you may have gotten a harsh enough inspector or perhaps they have to be that way considering you had a previous record. I just told mine I didn't have sheep anymore and he said that was fine. As for the drench, again seems a fairly simple mistake. Especially if you'd gone on to inform him/her. Are you sure there weren't other issues?

To be honest I have no idea if there were other issues. The inspector waited till the last minute of the 2 hours, filled in critical requirements 100%, Category 1 requirements 81%, Category 2 requirements 97%, checked the Not Eligible box and took off out the door like a scalded cat.

I then rang the Bord Bia office to find out what was going on and the girl that answered said I can be audited again after 6 months unless I want to send a letter to Michael Maloney (whoever he is) and beg for another audit basically. She started quoting me rules of "scheme" etc etc so I got even more annoyed and told her I dont anything more to do with An Bord Bia. I was fuming at the time.

One part of the whole thing that really annoys me is the flock register. I can understand the cattle side as they are registered at birth and given a passport. However, the sheep have no password or registration process. The inspector the last day spent about 30 minutes checking my flock register against the dispatch documents but in all seriousness what is the point. I could go to 5 different farmers around me and buy 10 lambs off each of them. Bring them to my farm, order some electronic tags, go to the mart or factory and sell them and nobody would have a notion where they came from in the first place. I could just say they grew up out of the ground with the grass for all Bord Bia or anyone would know. Yet here was your man going through it with a fine tooth comb. I just dont understand the point of that to be honest.

Anyway, I got vexed the other day and told them I no longer want to be certified with An Bord Bia. I will sell the Weanlings anymore and let someone else worry about getting certified.

_Brian

Muckit wrote: »

No what I'm saying is Bord Bia should be issuing these to compliant members. Like the plaques you see outside restaurants (Georgina Campbell etc). Perhaps the farmer wouldn't/shouldn't have to pay for it?

It could be a condition of compliance to have them displayed at gate same as with safety signage etc, but hopefully with a more positive slant put on things farmers would have more buy-in and would be only too happy to display them as a badge of pride.

It would give open and transparent advertising of the scheme and a more holistic view of things to Joe public travelling to town for the weekly shop. You see logo on the farmers gate. You see it on the meat products you purchase in the supermarket. A link is made and the loop is closed.

And we could kill off once and for all the fictitious 'it's all down to the rain' character, giving credit where credit is due to the farmer and his/her good husbandry practices.

I do agree, I was just being vacuous really. But my point is we shouldn't be accepting much that costs time and money but the farm gains nothing from.

We're all to engrossed in punitive measures in Ireland to think progressively about implementing things.

farmerjj

My audit is coming up soon, what's the story with putting down rat poison do u need special containers, or can u use long narrow pipe and put it in that?

whelan2

farmerjj wrote: »

My audit is coming up soon, what's the story with putting down rat poison do u need special containers, or can u use long narrow pipe and put it in that?

Pipe is fine have a map of bait points

Willfarman

The flock register is not fit for purpose. It's too complicated. And it shouldn't be. What is the original brief eu legislation can anyone tell me? What do they do in Europe? I was going to say uk!

Green farmer

Muckit wrote: »

Bord Bia Certified

Think your right muckit. My pass letter is stuck on the fridge under a fridge magnet, never to be seen again. If I had one of those stickers , I'd proudly display it on my livestock trailer, or a plaque on the farm gate.

longgonesilver

But then if you failed even on a small technicality you would have to take down your sign, peel off your sticker and all the locals would think that you were a terrible Farmer.

kowtow

Green farmer wrote:

Think your right muckit. My pass letter is stuck on the fridge under a fridge magnet, never to be seen again. If I had one of those stickers , I'd proudly display it on my livestock trailer, or a plaque on the farm gate.

I wonder will Macdonalds put them on all the drive ins, now that they got the bord bia award?