Renting - Do letting agents allow extra tenant/ sublet to be added later?

LuckyCharms

Hi,

I am currently looking around for new accommodation.

Ideally, i am looking to move into a 2 bed apartment on my own at first. I might then plan on looking for someone to take the spare room down the line either as a equal on the tenancy agreement or as a sublet.

What my question is, is this something that letting agents would be agreeable too usually? or not?

Thanks,
Lucky

quietsailor

probably not on two fronts

If you can afford the rent on your own for the first few months bringing someone else in complicates things in their mind -- maybe ye won't get on and then there will be problems with one of you wanting the other out.

what your suggesting is differnt to the norm and they are a traditional lot. Again it;s differnt to the norm and (unless you're in an area oversupplied with rental properties) people are so desperate to rent places that the agent can rent to lots of other people without having to deviate from the norm.

SB_Part2

I don't agree quietsailor.

OP have a look at your letting agreement and see if it mentions anything about subletting. I've never had a problem renting out a spare room in the past through letting agencies.

Giblet

Not allowing you to sublet actually allows you to break your lease with appropriate notice, providing the tenants are suitable replacements (They have similar references and proof of employment that you provided, if applicable).

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2004/act/27/enacted/en/print#sec186

There was also a PRTB ruling stating that adequate references may be required for a sublet.

http://www.prtb.ie/archive/2008%20Disputes/TRIBUNALS%202008/DOTR10_08/Tribunal%20Report.pdf

David Della Rocco

Depends on the agency or landlord I guess as to their attitude and how welcoming they are to the idea but as per the above should be ok. I rented a 2 bed apartment in March, for the first month I lived alone, got the place the way I wanted it and then advertised a room for rent. The new tenant just called into the agency and was added to the lease without issue.

David Della Rocco

David Della Rocco wrote: »

Depends on the agency or landlord I guess as to their attitude and how welcoming they are to the idea but as per the above should be ok. I rented a 2 bed apartment in March, for the first month I lived alone, got the place the way I wanted it and then advertised a room for rent. The new tenant just called into the agency and was added to the lease without issue.

You aren't subletting if they are added to the lease. They can get part 4 rights etc now as they are a proper tenant. Subletting means you pay the full rent, the subletter pays you and they are a licensee who can be asked to move out immediately if you wish. I'd imagine that's the sort of arrangement the op is looking for as it would leave him in control.

From my experience people who rent a full place then sublet a room don't inform the agency or LL and tend to do it on the quiet.

Giblet

Lena Witty Fire wrote: »

Subletting means you pay the full rent, the subletter pays you and they are a licensee who can be asked to move out immediately if you wish. I'd imagine that's the sort of arrangement the op is looking for as it would leave him in control.

This is true for strict licensee, not sub-let. Sub-let is different, and isn't what the OP wants, they want a lodger effectively. Getting the added to the lease is different again, and would probably make the new tenant Joint and Several on the lease also, if agreed to.

Sub-let would be where the Tenant wants to move out and give control of the property over the new tenant.

Giblet

Giblet wrote: »

This isn't true either, the sublet tenant inherits the rights of the tenant, even Part 4.

It is very much correct, they are a licensee of the tenant and they get no rights simple as that. It's no different to a home owner renting a room in their house.

Giblet

Lena Witty Fire wrote: »

It is very much correct, they are a licensee they get no rights simple as that. It's no different to a home owner renting a room in their house.

Clarifed above.

Giblet

Giblet wrote: »

Clarifed above.

Ok I think there is confusion in the term subletting. I would understand subletting to refer to both scenarios: renting just a room in a place you are a tenant and letting the entire place where you have moved out. From the op's post it's clear it's the first type of subletting he is referring to.

campingcarist

Lena Witty Fire wrote: »

Ok I think there is confusion in the term subletting. I would understand subletting to refer to both scenarios: renting just a room in a place you are a tenant and letting the entire place where you have moved out. From the op's post it's clear it's the first type of subletting he is referring to.

What the OP wants is quite simply a lodger or licensee (under the rent a room scheme) it has nothing to do with sub-letting as Giblet has stated.

In a sub-let, the tenant moves out and in turn rents the property to his own tenant and becomes the head tenant. As a head tenant, he also becomes a landlord of his tenant and must register the tenancy with the RTB and pay a registration fee.

It gets confusing if people call renting out a room as a "sub-let"; it brings to mind rights which are not applicable.

campingcarist

campingcarist wrote: »

What the OP wants is quite simply a lodger or licensee (under the rent a room scheme) it has nothing to do with sub-letting as Giblet has stated.

In a sub-let, the tenant moves out and in turn rents the property to his own tenant and becomes the head tenant. As a head tenant, he also becomes a landlord of his tenant and must register the tenancy with the RTB and pay a registration fee.

It gets confusing if people call renting out a room as a "sub-let"; it brings to mind rights which are not applicable.

As I said I understand exactly what the op is doing but when a person renting a room is actually a tenant rather than an owner I would still call it subletting. I would also call what you describe above subletting but just a different type of subletting. Its my way of looking at it anyway.

SarahS2013

It's not subletting, it's a licencee agreement.

Graham

Lena Witty Fire wrote: »

I would also call what you describe above subletting but just a different type of subletting. Its my way of looking at it anyway.

It's not

WHAT IS SUBLETTING?
Subleasing occurs when a tenant permits another party to lease the rental property that the tenant has leased from the landlord. The tenant then assumes the position of landlord (known as the head tenant) in relation to his or her subtenant. Subleasing usually occurs because the tenant has signed a fixed-term lease and wants, for whatever reason, to get out of the lease before it expires.Subletting can only be done with the consent of the landlord.
Where a landlord refuses to sublet a tenant, the tenant can serve a notice of termination on the landlord.

http://www.prtb.ie/dispute-resolution/dispute-resolution/the-three-stages-of-a-tenancy/what-is-subletting-

In the scenario the OP is discussing, he is not leasing the property to another party.

SarahS2013

"private tenants living in your home are living under a licensee agreement, not a tenancy agreement"
Source: http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/owning_a_home/home_owners/rent_a_room_scheme.html

Again
"If you are renting a room in your landlord's home, your situation is very different. You do not have a standard tenancy agreement. Instead, you have a licensee agreement with your landlord. "
Source: http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/owning_a_home/home_owners/rent_a_room_scheme.html

Trust me, I do this myself and had long conversations with Threshold to make sure I was not breaking any rules. Threshold said submetting would be if I were to completely rent out my rented property and not live in it. But as I live in my rented property and rent out my spare room, it is classed as a licencee agreement.

Direct quote from email received from Threshold:
"
In terms of getting someone else in you are referring to what is called a licence agreement between you and a person you would like to rent a spare room, it is not subletting (subletting would be you moving out but effectively becoming the landlord : http://www.threshold.ie/advice/ending-a-tenancy/getting-someone-to-replace-you/), although you should inform your landlord about bringing somebody to live in the property."

LuckyCharms

Thanks folks for all the replies.

Just to clarify based on the replies.

I was mistaken, i should say licensee instead of sublet.

Honestly tho, i wouldn't be bothered about either licensee or getting them added to the lease.

The main reason i am asking is that id like to find a place and possibly consider the above a couple of months down the line.

Therefore, i wanted to check if this was feasible of if they would flat out reject the scenario.

campingcarist

I don't think you can have a licensee add to the lease otherwise he becomes a tenant like yourself.

Some, if not many landlord may object/refuse a licensee in their property because once a tenancy becomes a part 4 tenancy the licensee may request to become a tenant in the property. This is a person with whom the landlord has had no agreement nor control over and has not referenced or vetted. Furthermore, the landlord may not reasonably refuse the licensee's request.

campingcarist

campingcarist wrote: »

I don't think you can have a licensee add to the lease otherwise he becomes a tenant like yourself.

Some, if not many landlord may object/refuse a licensee in their property because once a tenancy becomes a part 4 tenancy the licensee may request to become a tenant in the property. This is a person with whom the landlord has had no agreement nor control over and has not referenced or vetted. Furthermore, the landlord may not reasonably refuse the licensee's request.

Of course he can refuse it they have no rights and can be asked to move out instantly if they made such a request and the LL didn't want them.

Yes, its feasible but not all landlords would go for it. The landlord that likes to vet their tenants would be cautious but if you are convincing it should be ok. It is a two bed apartment, after all. They may worry that you might not be able to afford the rent after a few months and that you will then come to them with an unsuitable tenant, leaving them in a difficult position.

If you take in a licensee you remain totally responsible for the rent and the condition of the apartment. If you take in a joint lesee and it doesnt work out, you can't insist that they leave.