Legality of DELIVERING alcohol after 10 PM.

JumpShivers

The Irish statute book and law clearly says that the SALE of alcohol on off-licensed premises are forbidden after 10PM in the evening.

Off-licence sales of alcohol is only permitted between the hours of 10.30 am and 10.00 pm on weekdays and 12.30 pm to 10.00 pm on Sundays

Would it be lawful if one were to set up a company based in Germany (for example), where people in Ireland can order alcohol to this company based in Germany online (where the payment will be received and thus where the sale will be taking place).

The payment will be made to Germany and the alcohol will simply be collected at a designated location and handed over by an “agent” or even delivered by an “agent” to a customer’s house or apartment.

Providing all formalities are satisfied, i.e., relevant liquor licenses, would this be legal? It’s a bit like a “technically legal DialADrink”.

MarkAnthony

How are they going to get a licence for this state in another state. Interesting Free movement of service argument perhaps. I always forget how the Polish prostitutes got on!

Marcusm

On a related matter, I use Deliveroo more frequently than I should. I note one local off licence which will deliver alcohol and "may ask for ID on delivery". Given that it is not off licence staff with experience who will meet you at the door, I would have thought that they must ask for ID. I wonder are they aware that a Garda age card is the only acceptable ID?

MarkAnthony

That delivers alcohol? That's ruined that diet then!

L1011

Marcusm wrote: »

. I wonder are they aware that a Garda age card is the only acceptable ID?

Only one accepted as a valid defence rather than "only acceptable", as far as I know. There's a huge difference there. That a local-ish Sergeant's son used to get 'genuine' fakes - real card, false age, £40 - run off at such a rate that nowhere around would take them for a decade or more shows how ridiculous that entire setup is. You couldn't even get them when you were over a certain age at one point!

The import licencing for the OPs query would be practically impossible and very expensive even if the delivery was in theory legal. Finding a country where off-licence sales of all types are legal at later hours than here would be an interesting one also - many countries in Europe only allow beer to be sold at all hours if anything at all.

Grolschevik

For the hypothesis in the OP, why would it be necessary for the business to be established outside Ireland?

For example, you buy a crate of beer in the local off-licence at 5, and arrange to have it delivered to your home at 1am.

I can't be bothered to go look at the legislation now, but I imagine there's something in there about "supply" as distinct from simple "sale"?

Edit: just reread OP. It's about placing the order to buy after Irish licensing hours...

foggy_lad

OP if the sale of the alcohol was the only issue then you could buy it in your local off license at 9pm and have it delivered later after 10pm but I am fairly confident that the legislation specifies the "sale or supply".

ScouseMouse

How about online sales before the 10pm watershed but delivered after. And why would the delivery guy need to see ID? If payment method was a credit card or someone who furnished their details which are kept on file for future orders, something like 4 star pizza idea?

Pro Hoc Vice

Grolschevik wrote: »

For the hypothesis in the OP, why would it be necessary for the business to be established outside Ireland?

For example, you buy a crate of beer in the local off-licence at 5, and arrange to have it delivered to your home at 1am.

I can't be bothered to go look at the legislation now, but I imagine there's something in there about "supply" as distinct from simple "sale"?

Edit: just reread OP. It's about placing the order to buy after Irish licensing hours...

For many years the law has been about sale or supply. Back years ago certain people though setting up club where the owners owned the drink would get around the laws so the law was changed to sale or supply.

Marcusm

L1011 wrote: »

Only one accepted as a valid defence rather than "only acceptable", as far as I know. There's a huge difference there. That a local-ish Sergeant's son used to get 'genuine' fakes - real card, false age, £40 - run off at such a rate that nowhere around would take them for a decade or more shows how ridiculous that entire setup is. You couldn't even get them when you were over a certain age at one point!

The import licencing for the OPs query would be practically impossible and very expensive even if the delivery was in theory legal. Finding a country where off-licence sales of all types are legal at later hours than here would be an interesting one also - many countries in Europe only allow beer to be sold at all hours if anything at all.

Their defence was my point; as regards the delivery service, surely in order to conform with Irish licensing laws concerning the suitability of the purchaser as regards age, any sale is only concluded on the doorstep when the delivery very person as servant or agent for the off licence is satisfied as to the age of the purchaser. It is hard to see, notwithstanding requirements as regards credit cards, that any sale could be safely concluded before then. In the absence of a doorstep check it is hard to see how the retailer has satisfied it obligations with respect to minors.

CiniO

L1011 wrote: »

Finding a country where off-licence sales of all types are legal at later hours than here would be an interesting one also - many countries in Europe only allow beer to be sold at all hours if anything at all.

I was thinking, that in most countries in EU there are no time limitation on alcohol sales. I though it was only really Ireland and UK which imposed those silly restrictions.

L1011

CiniO wrote: »

I was thinking, that in most countries in EU there are no time limitation on alcohol sales. I though it was only really Ireland and UK which imposed those silly restrictions.

No, it's quite common and often impacts stronger products earlier

seamus

The contract is not concluded until the purchaser takes possession of the goods.

In a prosecution the primary argument would hinge on the fact that the "sale" is open until the alcohol arrives with the purchaser.

So a delivery after 10pm would still count as an illegal sale, the item hasn't been "sold" until it's delivered.

Pro Hoc Vice

seamus wrote: »

The contract is not concluded until the purchaser takes possession of the goods.

In a prosecution the primary argument would hinge on the fact that the "sale" is open until the alcohol arrives with the purchaser.

So a delivery after 10pm would still count as an illegal sale, the item hasn't been "sold" until it's delivered.

Can you quote any law that says a contract only concludes on delivery, I know it's been years since I did contract law but I would like to see law on that claim.

In any event drink laws relate to sale or supply to cover a person been given drink or being supplied drink they own as in a club.

4ensic15

seamus wrote: »

The contract is not concluded until the purchaser takes possession of the goods.

In a prosecution the primary argument would hinge on the fact that the "sale" is open until the alcohol arrives with the purchaser.

So a delivery after 10pm would still count as an illegal sale, the item hasn't been "sold" until it's delivered.

Performance of the contract may not be concluded but the contract for sale is completed when property in the goods passes which would be on payment. There are a number of different offences when a pub serves after hours. Normally 7 charges are brought. theses cover selling, offering for sale etc.
the situation would be the same as if someone paid for a bottle of wine during normal hours in an off licence but couldn't take it with them at the time. What would happen if the owner of the off licence brought the wine to their house on his way home from work after 10 pm?

Fred Swanson

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Pro Hoc Vice

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

And not to mention prices.

Thoie

Tesco won't let you buy alcohol for delivery if the delivery time slot falls outside the "alcohol selling hours". E.g. If alcohol can only be sold after 10am, then if you book a 9 - 11am delivery slot, it won't let you add alcohol to the order.

On the other hand, I can place an order, including alcohol, at midnight, and that's not a problem, as long as I'm asking for it to be delivered within the right hours.

I'd suspect that Tesco wouldn't bother implementing such finicky code in their system unless they had to, so the rule seems to be based around the time the alcohol is put into your hand, not the time it was paid for.