Thorntons Bins- new charges

Eire girl

We'd just payed our annual service charge of €50 in March.
Just got the letter about the new charges & saying that whatever balance hasn't been used from the annual charge will go towards credit on the account.
We had payed the annual charge in good faith for the year though, can they just go & change that half way through? Isn't paying upfront for the yearly charge part of a contract?
Thanks!

Cabaal

Firstly off I'd recommend reading your Terms & Conditions,

At the end of the day the bin company has little choice on the pay by weight charges, its government pushed so they must implement it.

bolektrolek

got the same later and made me really irritated:

In my case average cost per collection raises from 13.90 to 23.00 EUR every second week!

apart from relatively small amounts - this is raise by 80proc!

calculation:
bi weekly collection, black bin 60 kgs.
Before:
9.90 first 40kgs, + 4 eur for excess 20kg (20c/kg) = 13.90 eur

After:
60kg * 35.c = 21 eur + 2eur some weird weekly (!) service = 23 eur.

_Brian

60kg is a seriously heavy bin. I thought ours was bad and when I checked the heaviest it was in last three months was 48kg.

VincePP

Very simple - learn what you can recycle and then recycle more.

4 in our household and waste bin collected once a month maximum.

Once you understand the amount you can recycle it becomes very easy.

bolektrolek

as a word of explain - household 2 + 4 kids. two of kids are nappy age.
that explains 60kgs, I hope.

Eire girl

Yeah the charges are crazy & we do recycling as much as possible but it's a massive jump on charges & more than double the service charge!

I was wondering though about the service charge having already been payed for for the year, is that not a contract? And can they just go & change that contract half way through?

Cabaal

Eire girl wrote: »

I was wondering though about the service charge having already been payed for for the year, is that not a contract? And can they just go & change that contract half way through?

Again, you'll need to read your Terms & Conditions,
What did YOU previously agree to?

Eire girl

Cabaal wrote: »

Again, you'll need to read your Terms & Conditions,
What did YOU previously agree to?

I agreed to pay them the annual charge as requested. There is nothing in the T&C's about a contract length but one could assume that as an annual fee is requested from the company that that would be you covered for the year.. I would think that's a reasonable expectation but they seem to have left themselves open to interpretation... I'm just unsure as to how legal that is? Or whether they are obliged to see through the year for which the "annual" charge has been payed.

guil

Eire girl wrote: »

Yeah the charges are crazy & we do recycling as much as possible but it's a massive jump on charges & more than double the service charge!

I was wondering though about the service charge having already been payed for for the year, is that not a contract? And can they just go & change that contract half way through?

Doesn't matter what contract you had, changes brought in by the EU always supersede it.

Baby01032012

No problem with the pay by weight.

It's the excessive underhand service charges.

Thorntons we're 50€ per year now 104€
Greyhound were €60 now €169

No regulation of this business with very little competition they seem to be able to set their own prices

Govt set a minimum charge for black waste of 11c per kg bin companies charge 35c

Dodge

Eire girl wrote: »

I agreed to pay them the annual charge as requested. There is nothing in the T&C's about a contract length but one could assume that as an annual fee is requested from the company that that would be you covered for the year.. I would think that's a reasonable expectation but they seem to have left themselves open to interpretation... I'm just unsure as to how legal that is? Or whether they are obliged to see through the year for which the "annual" charge has been payed.

They're obliged to fall in with government legislation so can't honour your contract. If you query it, you may get your money back (the unused part of your annual charge) but if you want a bin service, you're going to have to pay by weight now.

FWIW, Thornton's are still the cheapest available in my area

Dayo93

I am pissed of with these extra charges now , not even looking at the black bin, the brown bin was 4.90 a lift , my last lift was 75 kg , that will now cost me 15 euro , its a joke , dumping down the lane from me is unreal, i see it getting a lot worse.

and they think there great giving us the green bin for free !!!! , absolute joke , thats a smoke screen for the huge increase we are gonna pay on everything else , Is the great Alan Kelly responsible for this ???

Actually looking at black bin last lift was 33 kg paid 9.90 was allowed 40kg, that lift would have cost me over 11 quid , baby **** is gonna get ****ed some where and nappies are gonna be burnt

ct5amr2ig1nfhp

Our black bin was often ~80kgs.

Kids = lots of nappies.

_Brian wrote: »

60kg is a seriously heavy bin. I thought ours was bad and when I checked the heaviest it was in last three months was 48kg.

Crocked

Just did the sums and our charges will go up 50% for exactly the same service. Laughable, usual cluster**** by our politicians.

edit: meant to say, to come out paying the same as previously you'd have to have a bin weight of 25kg as opposed to the 40kg limit per pay as you go rates.

Billcarson

Its an absolute disgrace,the people being made fools of by being totally ripped off yet again. These scum are taking advantage of us and it must not be allowed. Its time the people of ireland reclaimed their country once and for all

Cabaal

Billcarson wrote: »

Its an absolute disgrace,the people being made fools of by being totally ripped off yet again. These scum are taking advantage of us and it must not be allowed. Its time the people of ireland reclaimed their country once and for all

We should go back to the good old times where everyone paid next to nothing for rubbish, nothing got recycled and we dumped everything in the ground.
:rolleyes:

These waste charges are to encourage people to think about how they manage waste, up until now as a country the vast majority have been lacking in this regard

Billcarson

Cabaal wrote: »

We should go back to the good old times where everyone paid next to nothing for rubbish, nothing got recycled and we dumped everything in the ground.
:rolleyes:

These waste charges are to encourage people to think about how they manage waste, up until now as a country the vast majority have been lacking in this regard

Don't defend the indefensible,they are a blatant rip off if ever there was one,maybe we should all become slaves eh,people working their asses off for what just basic survival. Well that not the ireland want to live in

foggy_lad

Cabaal wrote: »

We should go back to the good old times where everyone paid next to nothing for rubbish, nothing got recycled and we dumped everything in the ground.
:rolleyes:

These waste charges are to encourage people to think about how they manage waste, up until now as a country the vast majority have been lacking in this regard

Edna Kenny is saying the same thing in the Dail but he is forgetting that when people have very little they will burn rubbish and dump it around the countryside rather than have to pay twice as much for the exact same service! most people who can recycle are recycling already.

Crocked

These pricing model changes will do nothing to change peoples behaviour. The vast vast majority of people were already segregating their waste. Maybe they'll put and extra cardboard packet or two in the green bin weighing <500g in total and save themselves 17c.

There is just no way someone is going to be able to move 15-20kg per fortnight from their black bin into a green bin unless they were doing no segregation at all up to now.

The change to by weight merely increases the companies bottom line. Seriously why are they doubling the service charge? how does doubling a flat rate fee you can do nothing about change behaviour.

It's a total farce.

Agent_47

Here in Meath - Navan, same issue. Raised with the local TD last evening, he was shocked. Service charge goes to €90 from €75 for 6 months. General waste is 25 cent per kg and compost bin is 15 cent per kilo.

I estimated and AES did not disput my figures that the charge per year for our modest house would go from €285 to north of €400. Am cancelling next week and looking to route the small amount of general waste to a relatives bin (albeit paying a few euro towards that) until something is done about this. I see this as a fractious issue than the water charge, people will not be able to pay it.

Why they have not adopted a billing rate (flat rate) like our neighbours up North is beyond belief. Every where you turn there is a charge for this and a charge for that.

ct5amr2ig1nfhp

As a family, we recycle as much as we possible can (within reason). We use the black bin very rarely. Green bin, brown bin, clothes banks, bottle banks and the recycling centre are used regularly.
The waste charges will not encourage our family to recycle more, as we cannot physically recycle anymore.

What do we actually get for the increase? NOTHING. :mad: :mad:

Is any of the extra funding being made available to county councils where the funds are badly needed? No.
It is going straight into the pockets of the waste management providers.

Cabaal wrote: »

We should go back to the good old times where everyone paid next to nothing for rubbish, nothing got recycled and we dumped everything in the ground.
:rolleyes:

These waste charges are to encourage people to think about how they manage waste, up until now as a country the vast majority have been lacking in this regard

Cabaal

Billcarson wrote: »

Don't defend the indefensible,they are a blatant rip off if ever there was one,maybe we should all become slaves eh,people working their asses off for what just basic survival. Well that not the ireland want to live in

If they can afford to make the waste they can afford to get rid of it, nobody is being a slave. People should just responsibly get rid of their waste its really that simple.

Sadly some people are totally incapable of doing so.

foggy_lad wrote: »

Edna Kenny is saying the same thing in the Dail but he is forgetting that when people have very little they will burn rubbish and dump it around the countryside rather than have to pay twice as much for the exact same service! most people who can recycle are recycling already.

The same argument put forward when they introduced bag tags years ago and bags cost IR£1.00 to get rid of, people considered it a ripp off.

A large amount of people don't recycle properly, they dump any old thing into the recycle bin and hope for the best. Or they claim they don't have time to sort waste for recycle....of course when they claim this they ignore the fact that the time to sort waste is BEFORE you put it in the bin in your house!

A look around most estates often shows metal pipes and other items that do not belong sticking out of recycle bins.

Spotted a washing machine freshly dumped at the side of the road the other day, some people are so stupid that they don't even realise that either the shop they are buying a replacement from will take that item or their local council dump will take it off their hands for free.

It shows that even when waste handling is little or no cost people still don't give a monkeys.

Personally I'd like to see the German approach to waste management in Ireland, getting deposits back on bottles and properly sorting rubbish before it goes to the kerb. Its a little complicated at first but you soon get used to it. Here's an idea of it http://www.aliadventures.com/2013/02/how-to-throw-out-your-garbage-in-germany/

Crocked

Cabaal wrote: »

If they can afford to make the waste they can afford to get rid of it, nobody is being a slave. People should just responsibly get rid of their waste its really that simple.

Sadly some people are totally incapable of doing so.




The same argument put forward when they introduced bag tags years ago and bags cost IR£1.00 to get rid of, people considered it a ripp off.

A large amount of people don't recycle properly, they dump any old thing into the recycle bin and hope for the best. Or they claim they don't have time to sort waste for recycle....of course when they claim this they ignore the fact that the time to sort waste is BEFORE you put it in the bin in your house!

A look around most estates often shows metal pipes and other items that do not belong sticking out of recycle bins.

Spotted a washing machine freshly dumped at the side of the road the other day, some people are so stupid that they don't even realise that either the shop they are buying a replacement from will take that item or their local council dump will take it off their hands for free.

It shows that even when waste handling is little or no cost people still don't give a monkeys.

Personally I'd like to see the German approach to waste management in Ireland, getting deposits back on bottles and properly sorting rubbish before it goes to the kerb. Its a little complicated at first but you soon get used to it. Here's an idea of it http://www.aliadventures.com/2013/02/how-to-throw-out-your-garbage-in-germany/

So how is introducing a pay by weight system that incentivises people to throw more stuff into a recycling bin that doesn't belong there going to improve anything?

It's a poorly executed, ill thought out system. I do a fair bit of cycling and am constantly dismayed at the amount of flytipping around the Wicklow hills. I fear i'll be seeing a lot more rubbish ruining our countryside come July 1st.

dudara

Moved to Recycling & Domestic Waste Disposal

dudara

EoC

Cabaal wrote:

We should go back to the good old times where everyone paid next to nothing for rubbish, nothing got recycled and we dumped everything in the ground.

@Cabel
Don't you understand that these charges don't promote more efficiency. I was on pay per rate already. Why double service charge and pay per weight charge. My bill will increase by 50-60 percent because I only put black bin out 4 to 6 weeks at a time. This is because I recycle everything. Your argument is not based on fact. Enda claims 87% will have lower bills. I have not seen anyone who claims to have a lower bill.

Billcarson

Cabaal wrote: »

If they can afford to make the waste they can afford to get rid of it, nobody is being a slave. People should just responsibly get rid of their waste its really that simple.

Sadly some people are totally incapable of doing so.

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So we should accept companies charging whatever the hell they want and we should just lie down and accept it ????????????
Are you for real?????????????
Sorry about the pun but you are talking complete and utter rubbish!!!!!!
These companies because of these new laws can see that they can make a killing and will try to get away with it. I really hope this issue blows up in the faces of the gov big time.

Billcarson

BTW my household tries to recycle as much as we can like I'm sure many others. And our reward??
Increased charges!!!!
What great incentive!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ragbak

Only use the black bin 3 times a year. Use the recycling probably every 2 months.

Starting to wonder if it is cheaper to go down to the recycling center. The one in Dunboyne for example is €2 per car for recycling. Have to figure something out for the household waste.

I absolutely hate people dumping rubbish alongside the road and this is only going to make it worse. In fairness the only way to get rid of dumping is to charge a flat fee, but that doesn't encourage recycling then.

Agent_47

Those Dolce Gusto waste coffee pods, 4 grs for empty pod, 25 grams of heavy wet used coffee per pod!

EoC

What alternatives are out there?
I would rather collect my waste and drive to a collection centre to offload than pay these ridiculous increases.