No-Show/Dumping an Exam - Advice Pls?

Redderneck

My eldest has mulled over whether or not to even sit her higher level history exam for weeks now. She is confident she will do well enough in her other subjects to get the points she needs and is already taking one "extra" subject (a language) she will score well in. She has her numbers crunched and is not panicking.

I would be old fashioned and advise her to sit it and give it a shot, and garner whatever points she can, "in case" but she's determined to 'dump it' so she can focus elsewhere.

Looking for advice specifically on mechanics of doing this: Attend, make zero effort other than name & number, hand paper in & leave; or better to simply no-show? Any other approach? Other than a degree of risk in terms of botching her points estimates, is there other attendant risk we're not seeing?

spurious

History has an essay component which has already been handed in. Regardless of the exam, the mark for that is in the system and that is what she will get on her cert if she does not show for the exam. It will probably be an F.

If she did not submit an essay, she can safely ignore the exam and no mention of History will appear on her results.

Sunny Dayz

While I don't know anything about the mechanics of doing or not doing her exam - I don't see the point at this late stage of deciding not to do an exam. I'm assuming she has had good attendance in this subject over the last two years and has done well or ok in her homework and any tests or assessments. If she has at least put the work in during class time and term time, she would at least pass the exam.
At this stage of the LC all the work has been done. By her sitting the exam out, she really isn't going to gain much more study or learning wise IMO on any other subject in the few hours she'll save not studying or sitting the history.

rainbowtrout

It seems entirely pointless to sit through 2 years of history classes, submit a project (presumably) and then not show up for the exam.

All she will gain is an extra 3 hours where she is not sitting the actual exam even if she does nothing for history between now and the exam. Nothing will happen if she doesn't turn up for the exam, but if she decides not to sit it, it's probably worth ringing the school in advance to let them know as a courtesy so the exam co-ordinator is not running around like a headless chicken on the day of the exam wondering if something has happened to her.

She will get a fail grade if she doesn't sit the exam if she has submitted a project as the project will be corrected.

I'm not entirely sure, but I assume the project is the same for higher and ordinary level (maybe with a different marking scheme). If this is the case she could always take the pressure off and sit the ordinary level paper and get a grade to represent her work over the last two years. If she is confident of passing the higher level paper with the work she has done, why not sit it?

She doesn't know how the other exams will go, not wishing her any bad luck, but if one of her other exams didn't go as planned she might be glad of the history grade.

Good luck to her whatever her decision.

Konata

spurious wrote: »

History has an essay component which has already been handed in. Regardless of the exam, the mark for that is in the system and that is what she will get on her cert if she does not show for the exam. It will probably be an F.

If she did not submit an essay, she can safely ignore the exam and no mention of History will appear on her results.

And just to point out that an F on her results transcript could potentially be to her detriment in the future. Many graduate programmes ask for Leaving Cert results and proof of such. Many of these programmes are highly competitive and her CV could get dumped in the bin before she even gets to an interview because of the F. I am on a programme that had 1000 applicants and have since found out many great candidates got dumped at an early stage for reasons like this - they have to whittle down applicants somehow so at the stage it was all about what was written on the paper.

Now, your daughter may never apply for any sort of graduate programme but just to bring an angle that you might not think of. For all the reasons listed by posters above, I also believe she has nothing to lose by sitting the paper and it would be a terrible waste not to. If even only not to have to explain why she has an F on her transcript every time she applies for anything that requires LC results to be looked at!

Redderneck

spurious wrote: »

History has an essay component which has already been handed in. Regardless of the exam, the mark for that is in the system and that is what she will get on her cert if she does not show for the exam. It will probably be an F.

If she did not submit an essay, she can safely ignore the exam and no mention of History will appear on her results.

Thanks for the advice folks. I wanted to double check on this so phoned State Exams Commission in Athlone on the matter. Their advice offered by the Entries & Applications Office and subsequently backed up by someone specifically from the History syllabus area was that since the already submitted component would not amount to greater than 20%; were she to no-show, that in effect this would ensure there would simply be no record on her final 'certificate' of having sat history, thus leaving a 'clean' record for future use. No 'F' grade or similar to negatively impact.

Based on this she is holding fast on her choice to not sit the paper - however I am seeking written confirmation of this from Athlone.

rainbowtrout

Redderneck wrote: »

Thanks for the advice folks. I wanted to double check on this so phoned State Exams Commission in Athlone on the matter. Their advice offered by the Entries & Applications Office and subsequently backed up by someone specifically from the History syllabus area was that since the already submitted component would not amount to greater than 20%; that in effect this would ensure there would simply be no record on her final 'certificate' of having sat history, thus leaving a 'clean' record for future use. No 'F' grade or similar to negatively impact.

Based on this she is holding fast on her choice to not sit the paper - however I am seeking written confirmation of this from Athlone.

I understand that you got that info from the SEC but examiners are required to mark anything submitted and submit a grade. My own subject contains a project component and I have had students who submitted a project and received an F grade when they didn't sit the paper.

The examiner who corrects your daughters project won't know if her exam is missing because she didn't sit it or because she sat the exam in a different centre ( eg she ended up in hospital) and is in with another schools bundle so they will correct as normal.

Also your daughter could appeal the grade. It's mathematically impossible to pass with a project worth 20% but the option is there to appeal any grade. If the work was submitted and not corrected then it would open up a whole can of worms as someone would be randomly picking and choosing whose grades get certified and whose get deleted. If the grade didn't appear on her cert she wouldn't have the option to appeal it which not for her but for another student who completed project and exam might get an F and not be able to appeal when the F could be the result of a calculation error

spurious

I'm surprised Athlone said that. It hasn't been my experience of students who handed in an essay and didn't sit the exam. The part mark always appeared, with an asterisk beside it to indicate a missing component.

Postgrad10

spurious wrote: »

I'm surprised Athlone said that. It hasn't been my experience of students who handed in an essay and didn't sit the exam. The part mark always appeared, with an asterisk beside it to indicate a missing component.

I'm with Spurious on this one. However the projects are only technically submitted , if the school still has them, could the op not ask the school to hand up the project to the superintendent tomorrow? And then history won't appear on the results sheet?

Digital Society

Interestingly enough its only when i actually got to college i realised that you need to be strategic to get the maximum grades you are capable of. I didnt do incredibly well in the leaving and averaged 82% in college in the final years that i started to be strategic in my approach to exams so i think it definitely worked.

If your daughter is mature and genuinely feels like she would perform better in another exam i would say go for it.

If it gets her literally 1% extra in another of the 6 subjects its better in the long run at the end of the day. Pity she couldnt have dropped it 2 years ago but no point in dwelling on that now.

Mrs Mop

Have to throw my two cents worth in here - I think Redderneck may have misinterpreted the advice which has been given by the SEC. If the daughter has submitted her coursework component then she has officially presented for the exam - IF she chooses not to show for the exam then her result will be based on the 20% of the coursework component and will appear on her results transcript ( if it were a language this would be 25% ) I would strongly advise that Redderneck contact the school exam coordinator as soon as possible ( most schools have one - I am ours!! ) and just as a POI for Postgrad10 it's not the case that the 'projects are only technically submitted' - these were all packed & signed & the registration form was sent to the Department back in April / early May.
This could be a costly long term mistake.

2006K

Hi just wondered about this too. Daughter is adamant she doesn't 'need' to sit the OL Chemistry tomorrow as with her other subjects she feels she has the points she needs to get her course. She's woeful at Chemistry and not great at maths so its been a struggle for the past two years. Shes never passed a class exam although only 2 people really did in a class of 12,teacher wasn't great but thats another story. Anyway, teacher advised her to sit ordinary after the mocks and she's adamant she will fail this. Shes since read on this thread a no show will not appear on her results and would rather that than fail? Any advice?? Thks

spurious

In the case of chemistry, because there is no other marked component, nothing will show on her results if she does not show up.

However, if she has followed the higher course all along, would it not be unlikely she would fail the ordinary level? If it were me, I'd be erring on the side of caution and getting some sort of mark, even if only on the ordinary paper.

2006K

Hi Spurious,thanks for the clarification,shes adamant she wont pas,she spoke to some others from the class and they are also 'ditching' the exam. Shes never passed an exam in it and says the ordinary paper doesn't seem much easier? I honestly dont know tbh, she has honours in all other subjects and feels shes done ok and has worked hard for these. She will have 7 subjects in total without Chemistry. I just don't want it to look bad on her results if she doesnt show. Also she says she hasn't counted these points either??

adam240610

2006K wrote: »

Hi Spurious,thanks for the clarification,shes adamant she wont pas,she spoke to some others from the class and they are also 'ditching' the exam. Shes never passed an exam in it and says the ordinary paper doesn't seem much easier? I honestly dont know tbh, she has honours in all other subjects and feels shes done ok and has worked hard for these. She will have 7 subjects in total without Chemistry. I just don't want it to look bad on her results if she doesnt show. Also she says she hasn't counted these points either??

If she has seven other higher subjects and is confident in those let her ditch it IMO. She might have more time to study for a different exam this week if applicable, and is very unlikely to add to her points being ordinary without failing two HL subjects.

2006K

Its her last subject tomorrow actually and tbh she has been doing alot of revision,she just says she doesnt get it,she does it through Irish aswell! Teacher maintained it would click around Christmas time but for her and most of the class it never did!!

Mrs Mop

2006K wrote: »

Its her last subject tomorrow actually and tbh she has been doing alot of revision,she just says she doesnt get it,she does it through Irish aswell! Teacher maintained it would click around Christmas time but for her and most of the class it never did!!

SPURIOUS is on the ball here - let it go! No sense flogging a dead horse unlike the OP whose daughter had already a practical component submitted. Your daughter will be delighted to have it all over her!

Redderneck

Mrs Mop wrote: »

SPURIOUS is on the ball here - let it go! No sense flogging a dead horse unlike the OP whose daughter had already a practical component submitted. Your daughter will be delighted to have it all over her!

Just to close off on this definitively and to give the dead horse one last merciless flogging: Spurious was not on the ball here. The advice received in my horse's mouth phone call to CAO was correct:

Since the already submitted component could not amount to greater than 20%; her no-showing would ensure there would simply be no record on her final 'certificate' of having sat history, thus leaving a 'clean' record for future use. No 'F' grade or similar to negatively impact. She didn't sit it; she got what was needed and not a mention of history anywhere.

She most certainly is delighted to have it all over her.

Now. Onto the next horse...

rainbowtrout

Redderneck wrote: »

Just to close off on this definitively and to give the dead horse one last merciless flogging: Spurious was not on the ball here. The advice received in my horse's mouth phone call to CAO was correct:

Since the already submitted component could not amount to greater than 20%; her no-showing would ensure there would simply be no record on her final 'certificate' of having sat history, thus leaving a 'clean' record for future use. No 'F' grade or similar to negatively impact. She didn't sit it; she got what was needed and not a mention of history anywhere.

She most certainly is delighted to have it all over her.

Now. Onto the next horse...

This is a little unnecessary.

I had students this year who received F and NG grades. They sat the written exam but did not submit the project (and were never going to pass as a result). So from the point of view of being graded they were most certainly graded and failed and it appeared on their cert.

It is likely that SEC policy is now to discount grades where a project has been the only submission and not to provide a grade if a student did not sit the written component, if the project consists of no more than 20% of the total mark. I think this is short sighted of them in terms of the possibility of a student's paper going missing or it not being entered by accident at the SEC.
Furthermore, this information has not been disseminated in any official capacity to schools or examiners. Teachers and examiners who posted here in good faith were only telling you what has happened with their students based on experience.

spurious

It's more likely the school became aware and withdrew the candidate, or it was done as a result of the phone calls to Athlone. The 'asterisk' system is a failsafe. The SEC would be most unlikely to be doing away with it.