Club races feeling the pinch?

Kurt_Godel

I just went to register for Valentia Sprint, and apparently its been cancelled, lack of competitors being the reason given. This is surprising since its been quick to sell out in recent years. Are clubs feeling the pinch when it comes to numbers entering- perhaps trophy events like HIM, Challenge, Castle series, are drawing entrants away?

68 lost souls

Kurt_Godel wrote: »

I just went to register for Valentia Sprint, and apparently its been cancelled, lack of competitors being the reason given. This is surprising since its been quick to sell out in recent years. Are clubs feeling the pinch when it comes to numbers entering- perhaps trophy events like HIM, Challenge, Castle series, are drawing entrants away?

I was thinking similar. 3 years ago club races sold out within hours of release not happening and also having to cover costs/achieve funds by increasing prices. Just registered for port beach and 53.50 was a bit steep for a sprint I thought?

stampydmonkey

There's way more events...across the board, tri, runs, sportives etc. They're all competing with each othrt

catweazle

With my recent average of one race a year I decided I would look at a one day licence rather than renewing my annual membership. 25 euros for a one day licence, thats madness, sheer gouging from Triathlon Ireland!

Some sprint races will be tipping 75 euros for your newbie entrant!

68 lost souls

catweazle wrote: »

With my recent average of one race a year I decided I would look at a one day licence rather than renewing my annual membership. 25 euros for a one day licence, thats madness, sheer gouging from Triathlon Ireland!

Some sprint races will be tipping 75 euros for your newbie entrant!

I was always amazed at this with cycling Ireland having odl at lawsuits events for just €2 and ti is €25. It actually seemed to me that with ci it was too cheap and discouraged membership. But when they tried to increase it to €10 there was uproar and it wasn't allowed to happen.

tunney

Kurt_Godel wrote: »

I just went to register for Valentia Sprint, and apparently its been cancelled, lack of competitors being the reason given. This is surprising since its been quick to sell out in recent years. Are clubs feeling the pinch when it comes to numbers entering- perhaps trophy events like HIM, Challenge, Castle series, are drawing entrants away?

Anyone here call top of the market a while back? Fads fade.

mossym

some club races are doing just fine, even smaller ones. lot more races on the calendar though, valentia is a trek for those of us in munster, let alone elsewhere, with loads more choices closer to home though it's tough to get people to travel to places like valentia

BTH

mossym wrote: »

some club races are doing just fine, even smaller ones. lot more races on the calendar though, valentia is a trek for those of us in munster, let alone elsewhere, with loads more choices closer to home though it's tough to get people to travel to places like valentia

Valentia has also always struggled with the weather, which plays a big part in what course they can use. Its a hell of a long journey for anyone outside of Kerry/West Limerick, for a sprint that has a high possibility of having the route changed. Pity, as it can be an amazing race.

EC1000

mossym wrote: »

some club races are doing just fine, even smaller ones. lot more races on the calendar though, valentia is a trek for those of us in munster, let alone elsewhere, with loads more choices closer to home though it's tough to get people to travel to places like valentia

When Valentia was national champs a couple of years ago it seemed to get a boost from that. However, distance is a major issue for those of us not from the area. I would guess people are not willing to travel in sufficient numbers without the draw of NS (regardless of your opinion of NS).

In general terms, I think races have to be able to stand on their own feet and have some sort of a unique selling point to survive. Over reliance on NS status is obviously not sustainable. The reputation of an international brand obviously helps. Domestic races can thrive IMO if they provide what people want at the time of year that they want it, with quality and value also important. Perfect example would be the Tri an Mhi HIM when it was around (not sure why it is not but doubt it is due to demand).

Triathlons are not like local 5ks that can be put on with almost no outlay. There is a considerable investment of resources and personnel needed to do it properly and unless there is a good chance of at least breaking even, it is not a particularly appealing task to take on - for both clubs and commercial entities. There will be a natural cycle of races appearing and disappearing as quickly again with races that deliver value and quality surviving.

RacoonQueen

I think all races aren't selling as well this year. Carlow for example I had been thinking of doing but wasn't ready to enter when entries opened, stayed open a lot longer than I'd have expected it to. HOTW didn't even sell out quickly this year I don't think?

Club races, I think with triathlons most clubs are happy just to break even? Duathlons and aquathlons being where clubs actually make money?

Kurt_Godel

RacoonQueen wrote: »

Club races, I think with triathlons most clubs are happy just to break even? Duathlons and aquathlons being where clubs actually make money?

Most clubs would be more than happy to put on a good event and break even, but its getting harder! Our Tinahely duathlon has decreasing numbers despite being well-regarded and cheap as chips. Ditto the 3D aquathon last month- they went to the bother of renting the NAC pool and had 31 competitors turn up for the 750m race, 21 for the 1,000m race. Why would you bother, if thats the response? It'll be interesting to see the numbers at the Wicklow aquathon next Wednesday.

As an aside, I do some of the Leinster Open Water races, they are seeing record numbers this year.

sconhome

I think it is a combination of tons of choice and the advent of one and done.

ShineyShiney

This weekend I'm thinking of doing Westport or Boruman, or maybe none, but haven't entered either. I will probably be able to get in to either up to tonight.

A nightmare for race organisers to try to run a race with so many late entries.

My race last weekend had nearly 1/3 of the field enter in the last 4 days and had 20% no show.

Evolve or die, I guess.

fully floating

The odl doesn't help some races if you want to do mullaghmore on the 18th of this month it's €50 entry and 25 odl if your not a ti member, were as there is a race on local this weekend €40 and another in 3 weeks €35 that's two races for the price of one. Odl is just to expensive I feel It does push people to smaller races were it isn't required.

peter kern

out of interest , i dont realy think valentia was a club race wasnt it more a charity event not organiced by a club at least at the begining.

Kurt_Godel wrote: »

I just went to register for Valentia Sprint, and apparently its been cancelled, lack of competitors being the reason given. This is surprising since its been quick to sell out in recent years. Are clubs feeling the pinch when it comes to numbers entering- perhaps trophy events like HIM, Challenge, Castle series, are drawing entrants away?

peter kern

25 euro for odl
all i can say europe is a free market and there is other options ...
you have to use your own brain for that as i dont like to recomment it but when an organistation is taking the ODL piss its time to look for alternatives.

Ceepo

68 lost souls wrote: »

I was always amazed at this with cycling Ireland having odl at lawsuits events for just €2 and ti is €25. It actually seemed to me that with ci it was too cheap and discouraged membership. But when they tried to increase it to €10 there was uproar and it wasn't allowed to happen.

While it may be €2 for sportive odl. A odl race licence is €20 and can only bought up to the end of March you then have to take out a race licence other wise you can't race. I think the race licence is circa €120.

Not saying TI aren't cashing in on odl but at least you have to option to do so

griffin100

For Valentia I think location and weather issues play a part. It's a hell of a long way to go when the swim is always going to be an issue. It used to be NS iirc and you had to enter it quickly or it would sell out fast.

Carlow sold our quickly enough this year and we had 100 on the waiting list so there is a demand, but I wounder how much of that is down to being close to Dublin and it being an NS race.

One thing that is potentially killing off numbers is TI making you buy a ODL at the same time you buy a race entry when you enter the race using their entry system. You cant enter and then buy the ODL closer to the race anymore. This means that the initial cost outlay for a race is higher, with no way of getting the ODL cost back if you transfer your entry or decide not to race for any reason.

You've got lots of competition from other events now as well. Sportives, Parkrun, OW swims, multi stage races, mud runs, etc. When you can rock up and do an OW swim with just your jammers and a pair of goggles as opposed to carting a bike and other tri paraphernalia to a race it makes the swim more attractive (to me anyway).

tunney

ShineyShiney wrote: »

Evolve or die, I guess.

Why? The problem is the expectation that the exponential growth would continue. Its cyclical and Tubby Tommy and Massive Mary will roll onto the next thing soon enough in an effort to stay entertained and in shape. That's the way it is.

fully floating wrote: »

The odl doesn't help some races if you want to do mullaghmore on the 18th of this month it's €50 entry and 25 odl if your not a ti member, were as there is a race on local this weekend €40 and another in 3 weeks €35 that's two races for the price of one. Odl is just to expensive I feel It does push people to smaller races were it isn't required.

ODLs are the problem, but not in the way you are saying. The fact that so many want them is a symptom of the "one and out" and "onto ironman" approach that is rampant.

sconhome

fully floating wrote: »

The odl doesn't help some races if you want to do mullaghmore on the 18th of this month it's €50 entry and 25 odl if your not a ti member, were as there is a race on local this weekend €40 and another in 3 weeks €35 that's two races for the price of one. Odl is just to expensive I feel It does push people to smaller races were it isn't required.

You do realise that races where a TI membership or ODL is not needed is not sanctioned??

I'd be having a very close read of insurance policies before attending one of them. At least a TI sanctioned race is operated to some minimum level of standard of safety and insurance.

(not commenting on the races you are talking about)

tunney

sconhome wrote: »

You do realise that races where a TI membership or ODL is not needed is not sanctioned??

Yeah quite a few races insist on ODLs but are not TI sanctioned. Pass the cost off as "ah TI the fvckers" and pocket the money.

peter kern

ODLs are the problem, but not in the way you are saying. The fact that so many want them is a symptom of the "one and out" and "onto ironman" approach that is rampant.

those people are not likely to worry about the odl price. and if Ti would charge 25 euro for half distance races than this could be a nice compromise.

but there is people that are not that rich but still would like to give it a go and the 25 euro for a sprint race is another hurdle
and while i understand that TI wants to encourage people to become full members (which i think is good value ) as this gives more gov grants, I think the uk Odl charges are better (5 pounds i belive) .

mossym

ShineyShiney wrote: »

This weekend I'm thinking of doing Westport or Boruman, or maybe none, but haven't entered either. I will probably be able to get in to either up to tonight.
.

boruman is closed.

boysinblack

mossym wrote: »

boruman is closed.

And westport is sold out with record numbers. Most races this year seem to be selling out? I dont see this hysterical fall off in entrants at all...

Athy had 1,500 hundred with no national series. I Know its not a club race but maybe a few clubs need to learn how to sell their races a lot better. Good advertising on social media is essential if you want to make good profit of your race.

EC1000

tunney wrote: »

Yeah quite a few races insist on ODLs but are not TI sanctioned. Pass the cost off as "ah TI the fvckers" and pocket the money.

How is this? You can only buy a ODL through the TI website afaik? If is is not on their list you can't buy it.

griffin100

EC1000 wrote: »

How is this? You can only buy a ODL through the TI website afaik? If is is not on their list you can't buy it.

I do recall one race looking for competitors to purchase an ODL even though it wasn't a TI sanctioned race. Payment for the ODL went to the race organisers. No prizes for guessing who it was.

EC1000

griffin100 wrote: »

I do recall one race looking for competitors to purchase an ODL even though it wasn't a TI sanctioned race. Payment for the ODL went to the race organisers. No prizes for guessing who it was.

Am I correct in saying that this couldn't happen today though?

BTH

griffin100 wrote: »

I do recall one race looking for competitors to purchase an ODL even though it wasn't a TI sanctioned race. Payment for the ODL went to the race organisers. No prizes for guessing who it was.

EC1000 wrote: »

Am I correct in saying that this couldn't happen today though?

And that the race in question no longer exists.......

Lets get this back on topic please.

peter kern

griffin100 wrote: »

I do recall one race looking for competitors to purchase an ODL even though it wasn't a TI sanctioned race. Payment for the ODL went to the race organisers. No prizes for guessing who it was.

but this is not really correct
people had to pay an insurance fee, like ti charges with the odl
( i believe he used the very same underwriter than TI )

if they were TI members the organicer swallowed the cost and did not charge ti members for insurance ( which is next to nothing for a meduim sized organizer as volume disount is huge ) .

RacoonQueen

griffin100 wrote: »

I do recall one race looking for competitors to purchase an ODL even though it wasn't a TI sanctioned race. Payment for the ODL went to the race organisers. No prizes for guessing who it was.

Baffling that no one ever questioned that...and that people kept taking part.

The rise in cost of ODL could very well be part of it as the people who may do one or two races will be put off by the cost. I wasn't going to get a race licence this year but figured if I wanted to do a couple of races which is all I knew I'd be able to do this summer + non race licence = €70 with 2 x ODL. €60 for full membership - €20 voucher for cycle superstore (which surprisingly I did actually use for something I needed) made full membership better value.

ShineyShiney

To clarify boruman and Westport entries were available today, not through official channels and I would have had to race under someone else's name.

Still available afaik

sconhome

ShineyShiney wrote: »

To clarify boruman and Westport entries were available today, not through official channels and I would have had to race under someone else's name.

Still available afaik

If they are not official they are not available. Crazy stuff racing under someone elses name.

What happens if you are involved in an accident?

Djoucer

sconhome wrote: »

If they are not official they are not available. Crazy stuff racing under someone elses name.

What happens if you are involved in an accident?

Write your emergency contact details on your number. Non transfer for safety reasons has always been bull****.

EC1000

Djoucer wrote: »

Write your emergency contact details on your number. Non transfer for safety reasons has always been bull****.

Sorry, off topic but... The above is nonsense and selfish. It's an insurance issue, not a safety issue.

Djoucer

EC1000 wrote: »

Sorry, off topic but... The above is nonsense and selfish. It's an insurance issue, not a safety issue.

It may well be. Not disagreeing you. I was making the point that it's not a safety issue. Seems you're agreeing me.

Possibly on topic too. Who wants to splash out so much money up front and then not able to race it?

EC1000

Djoucer wrote: »

It may well be. Not disagreeing you. I was making the point that it's not a safety issue. Seems you're agreeing me.

Possibly on topic too. Who wants to splash out so much money up front and then not able to race it?

Safety and insurance are related though. If you are racing with me and you are not insured then that is a serious safety issue for me. Plus not fair on the organisers... guess who gets sued at the end of the day as a result of uninsured athletes in the field.

Djoucer

EC1000 wrote: »

Safety and insurance are related though. If you are racing with me and you are not insured then that is a serious safety issue for me. Plus not fair on the organisers... guess who gets sued at the end of the day as a result of uninsured athletes in the field.

You literally just said it wasn't a safety issue one post back.

Amazing how some races are able to negotiate litigious athletes in allowing transfers while others say "safety reasons."

EC1000

Djoucer wrote: »

You literally just said it wasn't a safety issue one post back.

Amazing how some races are able to negotiate litigious athletes in allowing transfers while others say "safety reasons."

You have to distinguish between transfers completed properly in advance versus unofficial swaps on race day.

Anyway, I'm out, no more feeding the troll.

toomuchdetail

ShineyShiney wrote: »

To clarify boruman and Westport entries were available today, not through official channels and I would have had to race under someone else's name.

Still available afaik

Absolutely not the case in Westport , I am the RD and under no circumstances were any additional entries sold after we sold out. i turned away 2 guys who turned up to pay on the day.
There is some hysteria re race numbers , our race has nearly doubled in 2 years and we are a club race .

RacoonQueen

How come duathlons/aquathlons can take entries on the day?
Pretty sure the Pulse race took entries on the day a couple of years ago - but allowed perhaps as it was pre-planned?

As someone, who due to other factors, sometimes wakes up on race day or in the days leading up to race day and know I can't race for health reasons - it's a pain in the ass not being able to get refunds/transfers/deferrals on race week. I must have wasted hundreds of euro on race entries for races that in the end, I couldn't do at this stage

tunney

RacoonQueen wrote: »

How come duathlons/aquathlons can take entries on the day?
Pretty sure the Pulse race took entries on the day a couple of years ago - but allowed perhaps as it was pre-planned?

As someone, who due to other factors, sometimes wakes up on race day or in the days leading up to race day and know I can't race for health reasons - it's a pain in the ass not being able to get refunds/transfers/deferrals on race week. I must have wasted hundreds of euro on race entries for races that in the end, I couldn't do at this stage

Duathlons can, aquathons should not.

Its to do with the ratio of entrants to water safety personnel.

mossym

toomuchdetail wrote: »

Absolutely not the case in Westport , I am the RD and under no circumstances were any additional entries sold after we sold out. i turned away 2 guys who turned up to pay on the day.
There is some hysteria re race numbers , our race has nearly doubled in 2 years and we are a club race .

i'm a member of boru tri club who put on the boruman tri, had a chat with the RD about the comments on here and he was quiet surprised as well, i know they were on the lookout for it during registration