issue regarding leave from work

lifeandtimes

(mods please move to the correct area if not here)

Hi,

Ill give a brief description on my situation and maybe someone who has been in this situation can offer advice or tell me about their experience

My girlfriend gave birth to our baby at the end of may.

Prior to this in March i had agreed with my manager how we would arrange my leave.

We agreed I would take the standard 3 days parental leave with some annual leave to cover 2 weeks, we also made an agreement that would allow me to go part time during the following 2 months, however instead of changing my contract to a part time contract we would just have me down for unpaid leave for the days im not working. The unpaid leave totals 8 days for one month and 4 for the next month and i return to normal working days after the 2 months.

This was agree verbally and i then sent my boss an email confirming what was agreed and the days i was taking in an attached calendar. However they did not respond, i tried to follow up but still got no response.

My boss since then surprisingly left the company at the end of april and i didnt get confirmation in writing from them.

Since then the temp boss has been trying to get my leave approved however the higher ups did not confirm to them either.

My baby was born and i took the 3 days parental and the annual leave, however the company are now denying my unpaid leave request for the summer months. no reason has been given they are just saying it wasn't approved by them. However to me it was approved by my boss 3 months ago and i have been chasing ever since.

Im a bit distraught as i have organised this to assist my girlfriend and our young children who are off for the summer.

Has this happened to anyone else?

All verbal agreements acceptable or emails being sent confirming what was agreed? We have arranged the entire summer with our children and new born based on the agreement made months ago and we have no idea what we are supposed to do now

_Brian

That's a real pain to be caught like that. I'd worry, while you have an email from you that is really only half a story and the fact that you got no reply weakens the point your trying to make.

Since no formal agreement was made then they are in their rights to refuse anything now.

I'd even wonder if the last manager knew well he'd be leaving and rather than turning you down just fed you a line but committed nothingn on writing.

you need to work with the current management team and try get some sort of compromise as they way your left you have no right to the time off.

Wabbit Ears

All leave is entirly at the company's discretion. Even if the prev manager had replied in writing that it was agreed they can still change their minds depending in the needs of the business.

I'd also say that what you are asking for is a LOT. Everybody with kids gets that it's all new and lifechanging but people don't ask for the large amount of leave you're requesting. Summer holiday schedules are hassle enough without someone basically saying"I've had a kid,I want to basically take most of the summer off!"

Soft Boiled

Wabbit Ears wrote: »

I'd also say that what you are asking for is a LOT. Everybody with kids gets that it's all new and lifechanging but people don't ask for the large amount of leave you're requesting. Summer holiday schedules are hassle enough without someone basically saying"I've had a kid,I want to basically take most of the summer off!"

He wants to take off 12days over a 2 month period that he's given plenty of notice about - it's hardly that much.

If a company can't cope with this how could they cope with someone taking a 2-week holiday.

OP, I'm not sure you have a legal leg to stand on other than to appeal to your supervisor's better nature - say you had informally agreed the arrangement with your previous boss and on that basis have made plans and commitments.

Generally companies are wary about formalising such matters as they believe it sets a precedent and that they will need to agree a similar arrangement with the next employee who wishes to arrange something similar.

lifeandtimes

i just feel so stupid now.

I thought at the time that it was all being agreed it was parental leave i was arranging, that i was entitled to take as it was unpaid but iv been looking this up and it says i have to fill out forms etc to take parental leave which isnt what happened.

Im caught between a rock and a hard place, i was let down by my previous boss and now the operations manager doesn't care as its not their problem and the other person is left.

_Brian

lifeandtimes wrote: »

i just feel so stupid now.

I thought at the time that it was all being agreed it was parental leave i was arranging, that i was entitled to take as it was unpaid but iv been looking this up and it says i have to fill out forms etc to take parental leave which isnt what happened.

Im caught between a rock and a hard place, i was let down by my previous boss and now the operations manager doesn't care as its not their problem and the other person is left.

No need to feel stupid, your previous manager caused this problem, not you.

I wouldn't dwell too much on the past, talk to the current management team and see what if any time can you arrange now, it's a bad time to be going asking as its holiday season but still, you have to ask.
Offer to be as flexible as possible with the time off, they don't HAVE to grant you this time but hopefully if you approach it properly they may grant some of it at least.

Definitely don't go demanding this verbal agreement is honoured as you'll just get everyone's back up and they will definitely not give you anything.

Good luck !!

seamus

Press a little more on the why. OK fine, "we haven't approved it", but find out whether it can get approved now. And if not, why not?

You're in a sticky situation where the company is under no obligation to provide unpaid leave and can effectively revoke approval of any unpaid leave with zero notice.

Some employers simply don't like unpaid leave.

However, you are entitled to parental leave. Not the 3 days after the child is born, but in general. You are entitled to 18 weeks unpaid parental leave during the first 8 years of each childs' life. This can be taken in any format and at any time.

There are rules about how much notice you have to give an employer, but if you choose instead to request this as parental leave, your legal entitlement to it is far stronger.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/employment/employment_rights_and_conditions/leave_and_holidays/parental_leave.html

goz83

seamus wrote: »

There are rules about how much notice you have to give an employer, but if you choose instead to request this as parental leave, your legal entitlement to it is far stronger.

6 weeks notice required, defeating the purpose in the OPs case.

Marcusm

goz83 wrote: »

6 weeks notice required, defeating the purpose in the OPs case.

True but equally they have to adopt fair procedures and, in the absence of an express procedure in an employment manual, it would be hard to establish that the oral and written communications, even if not formally accepted, with the prior manager did not constitute notice. Any HR professional who failed to set this out is on shaky grounds.

lifeandtimes

Marcusm wrote: »

True but equally they have to adopt fair procedures and, in the absence of an express procedure in an employment manual, it would be hard to establish that the oral and written communications, even if not formally accepted, with the prior manager did not constitute notice. Any HR professional who failed to set this out is on shaky grounds.

I think that might be a strong stance to take regarding this issue.

I will apply for the parental leave and argue that i had given notice to arrange time off in march which is 12 weeks ago. I hope that will work

Little CuChulainn

_Brian wrote: »

That's a real pain to be caught like that. I'd worry, while you have an email from you that is really only half a story and the fact that you got no reply weakens the point your trying to make.

Since no formal agreement was made then they are in their rights to refuse anything now.

I'd even wonder if the last manager knew well he'd be leaving and rather than turning you down just fed you a line but committed nothingn on writing.

you need to work with the current management team and try get some sort of compromise as they way your left you have no right to the time off.

I'd ask how you are supposed to make a formal agreement when one side ignores the other when written to. Op there is presumably some official procedures set out for applying for leave. Did you follow them?

Wabbit Ears

It's standard and best practice to follow any conversation with an email outlining anything agreed. The mail does not require a response unless something needs clarifying or correcting. The fact that you have the mail is sufficient proof that the agreement was made and agreed and should be binding as far as notice is concerned.

lifeandtimes

Hey everyone,

Thanks for your responses they've been really helpful.

The hr representative isn't in until Monday but I will contact them them and produce the email which confirmed what was discussed. I just hope that it's helpful in my case.

Thanks for all you you're help so far