Driving a friend's car in Poland

Lord Nikon

Going on holidays to visit friends in Poland, and he has a car he can lend me for the trip.
Question is, am I insured to drive his car over there?

I have insurance here myself on my own car.

Atlantic Dawn

Call your insurer and see but as far as I know the driving other cars is restricted to Ireland.

CiniO

Lord Nikon wrote: »

Going on holidays to visit friends in Poland, and he has a car he can lend me for the trip.
Question is, am I insured to drive his car over there?

I have insurance here myself on my own car.

Yes, you are insured to drive his car over there.
Your own insurance is irrelevant.

Every insurance policy issued in Poland is open drive, allowing anyone who holds valid licence to drive - no age limits, no restrictions, etc...


If you cause accident, it will be your friend though who will loose his NCB, as it's his policy.

Lord Nikon

Thanks for the replies guys, I'll take the info under advisement. I'll ask my friend to clarify/verify.

CiniO

Lord Nikon wrote: »

Thanks for the replies guys, I'll take the info under advisement. I'll ask my friend to clarify/verify.

What kind of car is it?

Bear in mind that plenty of Polish people only have third party policies, as comprehensive is fairly expensive (comparing to cost of third party only policies).

Lord Nikon

He imports cars from Germany, so I'd say it's an open policy. Probably a BMW or Mercedes, late models, early 2000.

CiniO

Lord Nikon wrote: »

He imports cars from Germany, so I'd say it's an open policy. Probably a BMW or Mercedes, late models, early 2000.

There are no other type of policies in Poland than open policies.

Every car can be driven by anyone.

There are some exclusions though, where insurer would refuse to pay out in case of the claim.
1. If driver didn't have licence to drive a vehicle.
2. If driver was under influence of alcohol/drugs.
3. If driver did hit and run.
4. If driver took vehicle without owners permission (f.e. stole it).

If you are not planning on doing anything of the above, you don't need to worry about insurance, as you'll be covered.

grogi

Lord Nikon wrote: »

Going on holidays to visit friends in Poland, and he has a car he can lend me for the trip.
Question is, am I insured to drive his car over there?

I have insurance here myself on my own car.

Yes, it is the car that is insured out there, not the driver. Once the car is insured, everyone with valid driving license can use it.

grogi

CiniO wrote: »

There are no other type of policies in Poland than open policies.

There are some exclusions though, where insurer would refuse to pay out in case of the claim.
1. If driver didn't have licence to drive a vehicle.
2. If driver was under influence of alcohol/drugs.
3. If driver did hit and run.
4. If driver took vehicle without owners permission (f.e. stole it).

Yes, but there's (small) but...

If a car is used by a young driver (usually <26), that should be declared upfront.

However the underwriter cannot refuse to pay (except for those idiotic cases you're quoting), the only thing they can do is to recalculate the premium should an incident happen.

CiniO

grogi wrote: »

Yes, but there's (small) but...

If a car is used by a young driver (usually <26), that should be declared upfront.

However the underwriter cannot refuse to pay (except for those idiotic cases you're quoting), the only thing they can do is to recalculate the premium should an incident happen.

That's actually brilliant part of insurance system there.
You can not disclose such detail as fact that young driver will be using the car, and all what can happen is they will ask you to pay a difference in the premium (which would be higher if you disclosed it straight away).

It's bit punitive towards insurers, but it's great for drivers

dzwx

grogi wrote: »

Yes, it is the car that is insured out there, not the driver. Once the car is insured, everyone with valid driving license can use it.

correct

source: I'm Polish

zom

CiniO wrote: »

but it's great for drivers

Not true - if you are "low risk" driver you pay same fare as young, dangerous drivers. It is not fair.

CiniO

zom wrote: »

Not true - if you are "low risk" driver you pay same fare as young, dangerous drivers. It is not fair.

You don't as if you've had your car insured for many years without claims, you can have fairly significant NCB, sometimes even 70%, so you might only be paying 30% of what person with no experience pays.

Surely Irish insurance system is plenty fair comparing.... hahaha

CiniO

dzwx wrote: »

correct

source: I'm Polish

In the end of the day, we all are... aren't we

grogi

zom wrote: »

Not true - if you are "low risk" driver you pay same fare as young, dangerous drivers. It is not fair.

There are no claims discounts as well of course. So safe drivers pay less.

There is no issue of getting insurance for an older car, no issue of getting insurance when you're a young driver etc.

Motor insurance in Ireland is a Wild Wild West at the moment, for everyone...

Lord Nikon

If the cars are insured, how are injuries pay out?

grogi

Lord Nikon wrote: »

If the cars are insured, how are injuries pay out?

Polish are just tough...

pcardin

grogi wrote: »

Motor insurance in Ireland is a Wild Wild West at the moment, for everyone...

Pure anarchy I'd say...

zom

CiniO wrote: »

You don't as if you've had your car insured for many years without claims, you can have fairly significant NCB, sometimes even 70%, so you might only be paying 30% of what person with no experience pays.

Surely Irish insurance system is plenty fair comparing.... hahaha

If there is a lady in her 40s and 20-yo fella, and they both get their first car, will they pay same fare?

bear1

I can weigh in here as I'm Irish on a work stint in Warsaw.
I bought myself a Polish reg'd car after a while as I was sick of the LHD here.
2007 Passat (they didn't want to hear about my NCB in Ireland so I had to start from 0) 2.0 TDI and I paid I believe 400e ish fully comp.
The thing is, fully comp in Poland is pointless as if compared to their average salaries it's very expensive so most get 3rd party which can be about 150-200e depending on which broker you use.

polan

bear1 wrote: »

I can weigh in here as I'm Irish on a work stint in Warsaw.

Boards Polish Meet? :D:D I'm over in Pruszkow in a week's time

bear1

polan wrote: »

Boards Polish Meet? :D:D I'm over in Pruszkow in a week's time

You're a week late I'm flying into Dublin tomorrow morning. but if you are there long enough and you pass a black BI reg Passat outside the Skorosze center give us a little beep
Are you driving or flying over?

bigboss1986

Lord Nikon wrote: »

If the cars are insured, how are injuries pay out?

If you are injured and your injury will last over 7 days insurance company will pay out through court decision(2-3y waiting) as police cant issue on the spot fine.If its less than 7 days you get f@ck all as police will issue on the spot fine whoever is at fault and case is over
Good thing is police always come out when called and they will judge there and then who is at fault.If you dont agree to take on the spot fine and points you can go to court and judges decides.9/10 you wont win

polan

bear1 wrote: »

You're a week late I'm flying into Dublin tomorrow morning. but if you are there long enough and you pass a black BI reg Passat outside the Skorosze center give us a little beep
Are you driving or flying over?

Flying over, staying for 2 weeks.

Lord Nikon

I wonder how much registering an Irish car in Poland is. Have a car here that doesn't do anything, and would be cheaper to have a car in Poland when I visit, usually twice a year.

grogi

bigboss1986 wrote: »

If you are injured and your injury will last over 7 days insurance company will pay out through court decision(2-3y waiting) as police cant issue on the spot fine.If its less than 7 days you get f@ck all as police will issue on the spot fine whoever is at fault and case is over

What a complete piece of junk... How does Police know how long the injury will last?

a) For starters, penalty for causing an incident/accident is a separate issue from paying for covering the damages. Police can issue a fine on the spot for a fender-bender or will take the case to the court if any personal damage was observed or person at fault refuses the ticket or is under the influence.

Those proceedings will not decide about any form of compensation, it is only to decide if the accused is at fault. It is a criminal offence to cause personal injury and one can be jailed for that (if found guilty, the sentence is in majority of cases suspended).

b) The damaged party can seek compensations (property damage, personal injury, lost of income etc.) directly through insurance company that insured the vehicle at fault, and when (not if - when, they always do) they start to navigate away from responsibility, bring the case to civil court as well. It is very beneficial if the police issued a ticket or the court the conviction.

CiniO

Lord Nikon wrote: »

If the cars are insured, how are injuries pay out?

It's not exactly "car are insured".

It's just equivalent of Irish "open drive policies".

That means, that it's vehicle owner responsibility to purchase a thrid party insurance policy, and this policy will cover a driver (whoever it might be) against damage to property or injuries which he/she causes by their driving to third parties.

CiniO

zom wrote: »

If there is a lady in her 40s and 20-yo fella, and they both get their first car, will they pay same fare?

Not the same, but might be very similar.

Third party policy premiums, are based on few major factors.

1. Engine size - the bigger the engine the more expensive it will be. F.e. basic cost of third party policy might be €150 for 1 litre car, €200 for 2 litre car, and €250 for 3 litre car.

2. Address of vehicle owner - usually it's more expensive in the big cities, than in the country side. Might be probably 50% more expensive in Warsaw, than somewhere very rural.

3. NCB - they go as much as 70% by some insurers, with 60% being offered by most. However to collect 60% discount, you'd need something like 10 years no claims driving.

4. There usually is an 20% - 30% increase, if vehicle owner is below 25 years of age. So here is where a difference might be between 20 years old and 40 year old beginner drivers as you asked. But difference is not big being it only 20% to 30%, not like 1000% or over in Ireland.


In general, as policies are open drive, anyone can drive a car, so premiums can't be based on drivers profile.


It's all rather about no claims discount.
It's the vehicle owner who decides who he lets his car to be driven by, and if he often gives his car to irresponsible drivers (or is irresponsible driver himself) he is most likely to encounter more claims, and then not be able to keep his NCB which is going to have major effect on price.

F.e. my dad has a 1.0 Opel corsa, and he only pays about €60 for this third party insurance per year.

I recently registered there a 1.8 Mitsubishi, and I had to pay €120, but only because I added my dad as a co-owner of this vehicle, and I could use his NCB. If not that, I'd probably have to pay around €270.
Disadvantage of that is, that if there is a claim from this Mitsubishi, then my dad will loose his NCB on both cars including his own Corsa.
So he is taking a risk by letting me use his NCB.

CiniO

bear1 wrote: »

I can weigh in here as I'm Irish on a work stint in Warsaw.
I bought myself a Polish reg'd car after a while as I was sick of the LHD here.
2007 Passat (they didn't want to hear about my NCB in Ireland so I had to start from 0)

I'd say you didn't try hard enough.
They are happy to accept Irish NCB if you find the right insurer.
Only hassle is that NCB statement needs to be issued recently (within last month) and it needs to be translated to Polish by sworn translator.
At least that what Allianz and Warta offered me.

2.0 TDI and I paid I believe 400e ish fully comp.
The thing is, fully comp in Poland is pointless as if compared to their average salaries it's very expensive so most get 3rd party which can be about 150-200e depending on which broker you use.

Generally third party policies doesn't need to be linked to comprehensive policies.
So f.e. people can buy third party policy from one insurer, and then comprehensive bit (fire, theft, own car damage, breakdown assistance, windscreen cover) from different insurer.

The comprehensive bit, costs on average 10% of value of the car as a base premium minus NCB.

So of €20k worth brand new car, it's going to cost €2000 approx if you don't have NCB. With full NCB you can go down to €600 probably. Still very expensive.

On the other hand, if car is only worth €2000, then it might be as low as €60 with full NCB.

Third party policies, usually range between €50 for someone driving some tiny 0.7 litre engine with full NCB living in very rural place, to probably about €600 for someone living in the Warsaw, with extensive claims history driving 5 litre engine car.

CiniO

Lord Nikon wrote: »

I wonder how much registering an Irish car in Poland is. Have a car here that doesn't do anything, and would be cheaper to have a car in Poland when I visit, usually twice a year.

First you'll have to drive it to Poland - I reckon about €500 the cheapest for ferries, fuel, 1 night sleep.

Then you'll have to pay excise duty in Poland (equivalent of Irish VRT) - it's around 3% of vehicle value for car with up to 2.0 litre engines, and 18% of value for cars with engines bigger than 2 litre. So f.e. on a car worth around €2000 with up to 2 litre engine, you are talking about €60.

You'll have to make necessery amendments to the car to suit with Polish regulations. Front lights will need to be converted to LHD version (beam bender stickers are no good enough) - so you most likely will need to get different lights - you usually can get them from scrappies for cheap enough on popular models. You'll also need to move rear fog light from right side to left side. Speedometer will have to show in km/h, so if it's in mph only, it will need to be changed. And side mirrors will need for fulfill requirements of visibility on left side (you must be able to see objects 2 meters on the left of the car 10 metres behind) - so in some cars where left mirror is smaller than right, you might need to change it for continental version.
Cost of all above might vary. In best case, it might be 0 if your mirros are good, speedo shows in km/h (or both km/h and miles) your rear fog light is on the middle or both sides, and front lights can be converted with a switch.
But in worst case it might cost even a €1000 to do all. Depends on the model.

Then you have to do roadworthiness test (equivalent of NCT) which will cost you €25.

Then you have to get the car registered in registation office which will cost around €60 and they will give a a set of number plates and registration cert.

Then you have to buy third party insurance on the same day the latest (as otherwise fines in the post will follow).


Hope this helps.