Trees cut down along boundary wall

tedimc

Would appreciate some advice; a few years back we bought a house with some land which we are currently renovating. The land stretches uphill some distance from the back of the house.

Last year, a neighbour approached my wife and asked if they could 'trim' some trees along a boundary wall of the land back from the house. They said they were impacting their view. My wife said that we would consider it and agreed that the neighbour would contact us before anything was cut to arrange to meet and discuss.

Some months later, we noticed a few medium trees had been totally cut down along the wall. We didn't make a big deal of it at the time as the trees weren't visible from our house and didn't want to fall out with the neighbours.

However, today - I see 3 more trees have been cut down and I'm very peeved this time. While again these trees can't be seen from the house, they did give some coverage to the gateway to the field and now the field seems very open with them gone. Also, the neighbours hedge is approx. 10ft tall - they could have trimmed the trees as opposed to cutting them down totally.

It's very annoying that they never fully got permission to cut anything. I plan to go up and gracefully discuss with them, but would like to get an idea of rights here. I'm not looking for compensation or anything, just want to make them aware of how annoyed I am and will leave it at that.

To set the scene - the boundary wall is along a local road and the trees are outside of the wall. There is approx. 6 to 10ft of a verge between the wall and road. The neighbours in question live across the road from the wall in question.

Are they within their rights to cut them down, or am I within my rights to politely challenge them over it?

Any advice is appreciated? Thanks

Sam Kade

You own as far as the middle of the road so they had no right to cut them.

Peter90

Similar situation before except we gave no permission cut trees, just spotted one day some cut, we had words with him (heated) he replied he would cut what he wanted, following day he cut more, he was planning on just taking them for firewood, went all avenues to find out right and wrong, was told more or less nothing we could do, could bring to court no gaurentte you would win and a waste of money. To state to law if branches of your trees are hanging into his land he may as you to cut them, you do not have to cut them but you may give him permission to cut branches that are over hanging, as a good will gesture he can offer you the branches but doesn't have to give them to you

XR3i

were the trees blpcking your neighbours light?

BoatMad

To set the scene - the boundary wall is along a local road and the trees are outside of the wall. There is approx. 6 to 10ft of a verge between the wall and road. The neighbours in question live across the road from the wall in question.

They have absolutely no right to interfere with those trees in any case

tedimc

Sam Kade wrote: »

You own as far as the middle of the road so they had no right to cut them.

Good to know, thanks for that.

Peter90 wrote: »

Similar situation before except we gave no permission cut trees, just spotted one day some cut, we had words with him (heated) he replied he would cut what he wanted, following day he cut more, he was planning on just taking them for firewood, went all avenues to find out right and wrong, was told more or less nothing we could do, could bring to court no gaurentte you would win and a waste of money. To state to law if branches of your trees are hanging into his land he may as you to cut them, you do not have to cut them but you may give him permission to cut branches that are over hanging, as a good will gesture he can offer you the branches but doesn't have to give them to you

No - trees weren't that large, and on the other side of the road. No branches encroached across the road at all.

XR3i wrote: »

were the trees blpcking your neighbours light?

No - can't see how. Their house was about level with the top of the trees, or very close and house is maybe 40 to 50 meters away. At worst it may have been blocking a small bit of their view. I wouldn't actually say blocking, more just in their eye line.

Bass Reeves

The day of owning to the middle of the road are gone as far as I know. however you own to edge of row ( all roads are a certain with you own up to half that from center of road) more or less to edge of tarred road. Your neoghbour is not entitles to anything on other side of road from him. However to be sure look on PRAI website to see your desginated site.

kravmaga

tedimc wrote: »

Would appreciate some advice; a few years back we bought a house with some land which we are currently renovating. The land stretches uphill some distance from the back of the house.

Last year, a neighbour approached my wife and asked if they could 'trim' some trees along a boundary wall of the land back from the house. They said they were impacting their view. My wife said that we would consider it and agreed that the neighbour would contact us before anything was cut to arrange to meet and discuss.

Some months later, we noticed a few medium trees had been totally cut down along the wall. We didn't make a big deal of it at the time as the trees weren't visible from our house and didn't want to fall out with the neighbours.

However, today - I see 3 more trees have been cut down and I'm very peeved this time. While again these trees can't be seen from the house, they did give some coverage to the gateway to the field and now the field seems very open with them gone. Also, the neighbours hedge is approx. 10ft tall - they could have trimmed the trees as opposed to cutting them down totally.

It's very annoying that they never fully got permission to cut anything. I plan to go up and gracefully discuss with them, but would like to get an idea of rights here. I'm not looking for compensation or anything, just want to make them aware of how annoyed I am and will leave it at that.

To set the scene - the boundary wall is along a local road and the trees are outside of the wall. There is approx. 6 to 10ft of a verge between the wall and road. The neighbours in question live across the road from the wall in question.

Are they within their rights to cut them down, or am I within my rights to politely challenge them over it?

Any advice is appreciated? Thanks

Can you insert a photo of the layout of where the trees are or where located exactly.

Id go over to his place and and cut down his hedge completely with a chainsaw, you neighbour is bang out of order, if you give people an inch they will take a mile in my book.

tedimc

kravmaga wrote: »

Can you insert a photo of the layout of where the trees are or were located exactly.

Id go over to his place and and cut down his hedge completely with a chainsaw, you neighbour is bang out of order, if you give people an inch they will take a mile in my book.

I think that is what has happened here and I want to nip it in the bud. See map attached. Might hold off on the photos.

Bass Reeves wrote: »

The day of owning to the middle of the road are gone as far as I know.

According to PRAI, I own to the middle of the road. Appreciate that probably wouldn't stand up legally - say if I put a toll on the south bound lane.........

BoatMad

tedimc wrote: »

I think that is what has happened here and I want to nip it in the bud. See map attached. Might hold off on the photos.



According to PRAI, I own to the middle of the road. Appreciate that probably wouldn't stand up legally - say if I put a toll on the south bound lane.........

of course PRAI isn't a legal guarantee of boundaries, traditionally under common law, you owned upto the middle of a road. However with so many subsequent road acts, that " ownership " is very theoretical , modern roads that were specifically acquired are different also

however this is irrelevant , whats clear is that in any case your neighbour is absolutely not entitled to cut those trees, even if branches leaned the whole way over , into his property , he's only entitled to trim them back , not cut the tree down

of course , more trees just disappear in rural ireland without a sayso

its worth pointing out that felling ANY tree without a felling License is illegal and you can threaten your neighbours with prosecution

XR3i

tedimc wrote: »

Speaking of which, what is a tub of sticky sticky anyway?

it was supposed to be a funny quote from this movie (in relation to compensation)

anyway no offence intended

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=64WYd5g-gtc

tedimc

BoatMad wrote: »

however this is irrelevant , whats clear is that in any case your neighbour is absolutely not entitled to cut those trees, even if branches leaned the whole way over , into his property , he's only entitled to trim them back , not cut the tree down

No definitely wasn't leaning onto his site. And to be honest, I would have had no issue in getting them trimmed. I'd have even done it for them if they asked, just cutting them down to the stump is a bit much.

BoatMad wrote: »

its worth pointing out that felling ANY tree without a felling License is illegal and you can threaten your neighbours with prosecution

To be fair, I think they did use a contractor to do it, presumably as long as he has the license they are covered? Is that true, even if I wanted to cut down one of my own tress?

tedimc

XR3i wrote: »

it was supposed to be a funny quote from this movie (in relation to compensation)

anyway no offence intended

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=64WYd5g-gtc

I'm going to struggle to keep a straight face now when I do call up to them after watching that........

BoatMad

tedimc wrote: »

No definitely wasn't leaning onto his site. And to be honest, I would have had no issue in getting them trimmed. I'd have even done it for them if they asked, just cutting them down to the stump is a bit much.



To be fair, I think they did use a contractor to do it, presumably as long as he has the license they are covered? Is that true, even if I wanted to cut down one of my own tress?

a felling license has to be applied for for each felling process and last for a certain time

the general rules are

The Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine advise that, under Section 37 of the Forestry Act, 1946, it is illegal to uproot any tree over ten years old or to cut down any tree of any age (including trees which form part of a hedgerow), unless a Felling Notice has been lodged at the Garda Station nearest to the trees at least 21 days before felling commences.
A Felling Notice may be obtained from any Garda Station or directly from the Felling Section of the Forest Service of the Department. A copy can also be obtained on the Department's website.
The requirement for a felling licence for the uprooting or cutting down of trees does not apply where:
a) The tree in question is a hazel, apple, plum, damson, pear, or cherry tree grown for the value of its fruit or any ozier;
b) The tree in question is less than 100 feet from a dwelling other than a wall or temporary structure;
c) The tree in question is standing in a County or other Borough or an urban district (that is, within the boundaries of a town council, or city council area).
Other exceptions apply in the case of local authority road construction, road safety and electricity supply operations.

so yes in may cases you cannot fell your own trees without applying for a felling license ( limited)

of course this is ireland......

Nekarsulm

If he used a contractor, you could put a bit of pressure on the said contractor, as technically HE is liable for destroying your property.
Send him a bill for €1000 per tree, see how it shakes down......

BoatMad

tedimc wrote: »

No definitely wasn't leaning onto his site. And to be honest, I would have had no issue in getting them trimmed. I'd have even done it for them if they asked, just cutting them down to the stump is a bit much.



To be fair, I think they did use a contractor to do it, presumably as long as he has the license they are covered? Is that true, even if I wanted to cut down one of my own tress?

ask the contractor to show you the limited felling license pertaining to the removal of tress on your boundary ( hedgerow ) . !!!!

mention you'll report him when he fails to provide one

tedimc

Boatmad - does c) not effectively exempt every tree in the country or am I interpreting that wrong?

Anyway - thanks all for the advice; I'll call up in the next day or two and voice my anger.

BoatMad

tedimc wrote: »

Boatmad - does c) not effectively exempt every tree in the country or am I interpreting that wrong?

Anyway - thanks all for the advice; I'll call up in the next day or two and voice my anger.

no (c) refers to areas like towns and villages , i.e. those designate as " Boroughs ".

Sam Kade

tedimc wrote: »

Boatmad - does c) not effectively exempt every tree in the country or am I interpreting that wrong?

Anyway - thanks all for the advice; I'll call up in the next day or two and voice my anger.

Let us know how you get on.

If the trees are over 10 years old he could find himself in another heap of trouble.

OverRide

Your neighbours have breached the wildlife act as cutting is prohibited from April to August
They have also committed criminal damage, the permission you gave them first time was once off
They have also committed trespass
You should sue and report this to the Gardai
It is not true that doing so is a waste of time,you are legally entitled to compensation
The trees were a natural shelter belt for animals you may have there in the future too,a big loss for which you must be compensated

Don't worry about falling out or making enemies with your neighbours as they've already shown how they don't give a toss about you
In short Act now and don't let them walk all over you,they will take more liberties

I wouldn't bother calling them first tbh,they'll just ignore you,take the steps available

greysides

Mod: A bit of pruning/lopping/felling has been done to this thread, with the proper licence, to improve the view. I hope it's all over now.

_Brian

I agree this was a dreadful cheek but I really wonder if OP wasn't better let it go at this stage.

Trees are gone and no bringing them back, but this guy will be living across from you for how long ?? OP said themselves the trees couldn't be seen from their own house anyway.

I think I'd leave it and maybe next time in his company say you were disappointed about what happened and you'd rather it didn't happen again.

Going over to specifically open up a whole load of grief over this could end in a standoff that lasts decades.

Just an alternative view that might avoid long term grief.

_Brian

_Brian wrote: »

I agree this was a dreadful cheek but I really wonder if OP wasn't better let it go at this stage.

Trees are gone and no bringing them back, but this guy will be living across from you for how long ?? OP said themselves the trees couldn't be seen from their own house anyway.

I think I'd leave it and maybe next time in his company say you were disappointed about what happened and you'd rather it didn't happen again.

Going over to specifically open up a whole load of grief over this could end in a standoff that lasts decades.

Just an alternative view that might avoid long term grief.

I wouldn't leave it as informal as that.
The neighbour has done it twice now without permission and without a word being said - they will keep taking liberties if nothing is said now.

What happened to the timber?

BoatMad

Deleted User wrote: »

I wouldn't leave it as informal as that.
The neighbour has done it twice now without permission and without a word being said - they will keep taking liberties if nothing is said now.

What happened to the timber?

I agree, you will be looked upon as a "doormat" and find the next day that all the trees will be gone
time for a sharply worded solicitors letter, you need a record of protest , in case he acts further

saggart26

Put your anger to one side, have a chat with him and mention that you never agreed to remove the tress in the first place and because he chopped them down, the house is now visible from the road.
Its left the place exposed and you would like the trees replaced or cash to replace them.
If he refuses so be it move on and do the job yourself but let him know never to touch a tree on your property again.
Last thing you want is a toxic relationship with your neighbour. Can’t believe some of the responses to sue and to cut his trees down!!!

BoatMad

saggart26 wrote: »

Put your anger to one side, have a chat with him and mention that you never agreed to remove the tress in the first place and because he chopped them down, the house is now visible from the road.
Its left the place exposed and you would like the trees replaced or cash to replace them.
If he refuses so be it move on and do the job yourself but let him know never to touch a tree on your property again.
Last thing you want is a toxic relationship with your neighbour. Can’t believe some of the responses to sue and to cut his trees down!!!

a verbal chat is not enough , ( and do not demand cash ) compensation could be deemed to be acceptance of the act

You need a written letter of protest and a demand to cease and desist ( you could demand replanting )

worrying about your relationship is rather ridiculous since he's clearly not bothered about it

OverRide

BoatMad wrote: »

a verbal chat is not enough , ( and do not demand cash ) compensation could be deemed to be acceptance of the act

You need a written letter of protest and a demand to cease and desist ( you could demand replanting )

worrying about your relationship is rather ridiculous since he's clearly not bothered about it

This at the very least
You cannot be soft over this or it will come back to bite
And as for the timber,a decent sized tree could be worth a good few hundred blocked up
That's theft aswell
The blooming cheek

kowtow

OverRide wrote: »

They have also committed trespass
You should sue and report this to the Gardai

You can't commit trespass, as it isn't a crime, for which reason reporting it to the Gardai will also be a waste of time. You can sue for it to the extent of the damage caused although it may not be the most cost effective way to go about this.

The other acts & omissions mentioned above are, afaik, offences and would likely be more fruitful ground.

arctictree

If it was me, next time I see him, I'd give him a right bollocking. Waste of time and money trying to get the law to sort it out when the damage is done.

BrokenArrows

Id simply inform him that you didnt give consent.
Tell him he doesnt have permission to cut down trees and shouldnt have done it and not to do it again.
Request the return of the raw wood from the trees. Doesnt matter if you want it or not.
If he says no, or doesnt have it anymore then he should compensate you for the raw wood. Value depends on the wood type. At the very least the cost of some burning wood in the winter for the same weight.

Try and always keep it civil. Posters who suggest destroying relations probably have no experience. Having a petty spiteful neighbour is a pain in the ass.

Eventually you need to deal with them for something you want and if you have a bad relationship then its a nightmare.

OverRide

BrokenArrows wrote: »

Try and always keep it civil. Posters who suggest destroying relations probably have no experience. Having a petty spiteful neighbour is a pain in the ass.

Eventually you need to deal with them for something you want and if you have a bad relationship then its a nightmare.

That works both ways
I've a neighbour who tried to take half my ditch.
Not being firm,not nipping this in the bud,causes all sorts of problems ongoing

Base price

Playing devils advocate here - would it be possible that the tree surgeon/contractor realised that the tree were dangerous and felled them so that they would not cause an accident if they fell on the road??
Just a thought although as others have said your neighbor should have asked permission before going near them.

BoatMad

Base price wrote: »

Playing devils advocate here - would it be possible that the tree surgeon/contractor realised that the tree were dangerous and felled them so that they would not cause an accident if they fell on the road??
Just a thought although as others have said your neighbor should have asked permission before going near them.

The contractor cannot make that determination. Only. Certain authorities can order you to remove trees from the vicinity of a road. ( typically esb and co.co)

Milked out

BoatMad wrote: »

Base price wrote: »

Playing devils advocate here - would it be possible that the tree surgeon/contractor realised that the tree were dangerous and felled them so that they would not cause an accident if they fell on the road??
Just a thought although as others have said your neighbor should have asked permission before going near them.

The contractor cannot make that determination. Only. Certain authorities can order you to remove trees from the vicinity of a road. ( typically esb and co.co)

If there are branches or trees in close proximity to esb lines they, the esb, or their contractors remove them, they ask permission to get on the land here to do so if required

djmc

The small claims court is for damage up to two thousand euros
There is no need for a solicitor and costs little to use I think around 100 euro.
I have heard of someone that had trees damaged before having them replaced with mature trees from a garden centre at a cost of 800 each.
It's up to yourself what you want to do but I wouldn't blame you for being an annoyed.

BoatMad

Milked out wrote: »

If there are branches or trees in close proximity to esb lines they, the esb, or their contractors remove them, they ask permission to get on the land here to do so if required

The esb is one of the bodies that is excempt from the forestry acts and can remove trees in order to protect transmission lines.

They don't need permission to enter your land but they normally ask anyway.

Base price

BoatMad wrote: »

The contractor cannot make that determination. Only. Certain authorities can order you to remove trees from the vicinity of a road. ( typically esb and co.co)

Why not if they are qualified to do so. Only asking?