5 and 10 year olds behaviour

poppy_crystal

hi, looking for help with my 2 boys. both have gotten VERY moody with me and are generally good children when they are complying, but when they aren't they are tyrants, i cant cope. they are terrified of their dad so when they are at his house (separated) they are angels but with me they will hit me and the younger one throws what i can only describe as childish spoilt brat strops. he told my friend yesterday that i dont feed them (i do, but i dont give them treats if they are being bold obviously or if they dont eat their dinner there is no treats, reasonable reaction from me i would think?). My head is wrecked, i'm constantly trying to negotiate, the older one bullies the younger, threatens me with this that and the next, i've banned everything, cancelled days out, stopped pocket money, naughty step, time out in their rooms, you name it i have pretty much done it and i cant control them. i'm loosing the will to cope, i cant take them out anymore because they will fight like cats and dogs in the car which would be ok if i knew they were going to not disgrace me in public fighting with each other and with who ever we are out with. i'm loosing th ewill to cope here. i dont know what to do with them, they are angels in the childminders, school, friends houses, their dads, anywhere i am not, but once i am with them, they turn into demons and i cannot control them anymore. HELP!!!! i'm at the end of my tether

LegacyUser

How long are you and your OH separated?

My mother always said that if you couldn't meltdown in your own house, it would be a bad state of affairs. Home should be where you're most relaxed.(unfortunately).

Have you talked to them about the separation? About how they feel? Does anybody say anything to them about it, maybe whose "fault" it is or anything?

I'd expect there to be a lot of fighting between two siblings to be honest, the car thing sounds very familiar.....but threatening you or hitting you is an absolute no-go. Stop trying to negotiate, especially with the five year old. You are the adult. Let him throw his strops, once he figures out it will get him nowhere, he'll give them up (eventually). There is not a parent in the world who has not been where you are when it comes to meltdowns.

If you are really really struggling and want some more structured advice, I believe Barnardos has a parenting resource whereby they can offer you advice on dealing with bad behaviour when you're at your wits end. I know a family friend has used them. Here's a link to helping deal with separation, but I believe if you ring them, they can direct you a bit better. Or browse around their site and see what they have.
http://www.barnardos.ie/resources-advice/were-here-to-help/directory-of-services.html/#separation

Best of luck.

poppy_crystal

separated a good while, over 2 years now, no blame was directed either way in front of them, just that me and dad didn't get on anymore and we still loved them and they were grand until recently. the 10 year old i'm hoping is just going thru that tween stage and hormones starting to get the better of him, but the 5 year old, i see his dads temper in him. i see their dads temper in both of them, but more so the 5 year old right now. i know there is going to be a bit of sibling war but feel that there is a lot more than sibling war, the 5 year old broke a puzzle his brother was doing the other day out of sheer and utter spite because i refused to give him a treat before his dinner. its the public melt downs that get me. all weekend every time i left the house the 5 year old kicked off. i have people now telling me what to do with them and that they are so badly behaved and i'm insulted and hurt and embarrassed by these comments from my so called friends. so called friends with no children of their own might i add! no one says a bad word about their behavior otherwise because if i am not around they are really well behaved so it feels like its just me that they are against

Sapphire

They kick off with you because that's where they are in a safe space to do it. Chances are its all pent up from visits with their dad where they are walking on eggshells all the time, then let it all loose when they come home.

I know its hugely frustrating for you, but it kinda is a testament to your parenting efforts. Have they had any counselling post-separation? Someone to talk to that isn't mum or dad - someone neutral? That might help alleviate some of the anger issues.

The normal sibling squabbling or the teen hormones are par for the course, a rite of passage all siblings go through I think but counselling can help identify the areas that do require a bit of work.

poppy_crystal

i do think my older boy is just going thru the stages of life, i dont think there is anything sinister with him only that the hormones are starting and they are winning! but the 5 year old is a concern. might be worth taking him to the gp for a referral because these outbursts dont feel right. if people are saying it to me it feels like they aren't the normal outbursts of a 5 year old having tantrums and testing his limits with me. there was counselling after the separation for the 3 of us and everything was fine until recently, just the normal run of the mill tantrums (if there is such a thing!) but he's getting worse and i want to cull it now before he ends up thinking he can behave like this to me and i'm stuck with a teenager who is bigger than me and agressive! i know its a slight exaggeration when thats a few years off yet but i feel it will only escalate if he isn't reigned in now

If you are reasonably friendly with your ex their father, then confide in him about treating to hit you ( only that behaviour ) because that needs to be nipped in the bud. The rest of it maybe try and not see it as a battle, ask you doctor or public health nurse about parenting courses etc. With out being disheartening it might be something you will just have to manage till the are adult.

XsApollo

If they respect their father.
Then next time they act up, pop them in the car and say your going to take them there and he can give out to them.
Follow through if they don't stop, maybe you can organise that with their father, once or twice with the father putting manners on them should make them realise your serious and the threat of taking them there again will help.

Popping my kids into the car and going to the guards usually queitens them before I have the doors closed ;-).

XsApollo

XsApollo wrote: »

If they respect their father.
Then next time they act up, pop them in the car and say your going to take them there and he can give out to them.
Follow through if they don't stop, maybe you can organise that with their father, once or twice with the father putting manners on them should make them realise your serious and the threat of taking them there again will help.

Popping my kids into the car and going to the guards usually queitens them before I have the doors closed ;-).

They need to respect her authority before anything else, that is why if she confides in their father it should only be about the threats to hit her because that is serious. As the children are behaveing every where else it does indicate that the problems are behavioural rather than any thing else.

XsApollo

Yes they obviously don't respect her or take her seriously.
Following through on what she says she will do will make them respect her after a while.
If it means taking them to the father for a giving out to, to show them she is serious then that will help.

bp

Could you get them into sport to release some pent up energy. My kids are a lot younger so easier but I find when the 3 year old acts up it is purely for my attention.

Now as I said mine aren't at this age yet, but from super nanny etc could you try the opposite approach. So maybe a movie night (alternate who picks the movie) with home made pop corn and try individual one on one time? They are probably scared of their dad so are freaking out at home when they relax.

You sound like you are doing your absolute best. If possible try individual counselling for each. Could your ex be bad mouthing you?

poppy_crystal

their dad and i do not have a good relationship, we are barely civil for the kids sake, he doesn't see their bad behaviour so if i mention it he throws it on my parenting and goes on a rant about what an awful person/mother i am. both play sport, football, hurling, rugby, swimming, athletics, if its available locally and doesn't clash with another activity they are there and they aren't forced to keep anything up, i do insist they keep the ones they like up and i even volunteer for some of their activities that they are both involved in. they enjoy their activities and if they ask to try something i never stop them because i think activities outside of school are important to broaden their friends base to people they aren't in school with and to be healthy. they do not have any respect for me though, that is so clear. i get the feeling i'm going to have to tough out tantrums and hold my ground, and i am able to stop a 5 year old hitting me, i just shouldn't be having to restrain him from hitting me, ever! i'm not sure if my ex is bad mouthing me to them, they said that he doesn't even want my name mentioned in his house, so i dont know, they could be protecting me too if he is

Sapphire

If you don't have a good relationship with him, then avoid threats of Dad or trying to get him to help you tackle this. He will only totally undermine you and love the chance to 'show' you how its done.

Regarding the tantrums outside the home with the younger one - do you react? How do you react? Do you give in? If you get embarrassed or upset then I think he might know that X behaviour gets under your skin.

This worked for me, but I appreciate kids are very different and not one thing will work on all. Ages ago when I had my toddler not listening to me when we were out and about, she told me that she just abandoned the mission with hers - no matter what it was - and went home. The first time I did a dummy run: Nothing on the trip was urgent or essential to get, and I clearly outlined expected behaviour on the way there with a bribe of a treat at the end if they were good. As predicted, behaviour was bad, he got 2 warnings and the third I just picked him up screaming his head off and buckled him in the car and we went home. The next time, when he kicked off, he got two warnings and we got as far as the car, where he begged not to go home and that he'd behave. And he did. After that, all it took was the warnings and he'd cop himself on. But you have to don your rhino hide and be prepared to glare down anyone who thinks they can tell you how to handle them. You know what works and what won't. If someone offers you 'advice' tell them to butt out if you like. Any parent who's had a public meltdown of their own will at most wink or pat you in solidarity. We've all been there!!

It sounds silly, but maybe pretend you are on camera for Supernanny when you are in the thick of it? That could help you be a bit more detached and less likely to let it get to you at the time.

Children with anger issues usually pick it up from somewhere and if their dad has a bad temper then all you can do is your best. And I think you are doing your very best by those boys.

hairyprincess

If you have a family resource centre nearby ask them if they know of any Stregthening Families Programmes running in your area. While some parenting programmes are just for parents, this one is for the whole family. And everyone is actively encouraged to be involved and put in to practice at home what they learn each week. It takes place usually one evening a week for about 3 hours over 13 weeks. I highly recommend it.

The violence you are experiencing is completely not on and needs to be managed before it gets out of hand. If you want to PM me the area you are in, I can see if I can find out where and when there is one running.

byhookorbycrook

I'd suggest a Rainbows programme if there is one near you.

The Princess Bride

^^I second what byhookorbycrook recommends.
Although you all had counselling before, the aggressive behaviour wasn't an issue back then and most definitely needs to be addressed now.

I've also got to say, I don't think it's healthy that they're terrified of their father, that's not right and not a positive environment for them to be in on a regular basis.

Best of luck and take care of yourself.

poppy_crystal

thank ye! i'm going to research rainbows and strenghtening families. we definately need to do something. we had a chat last night and i got one half peaceful evening. electronics are put away, fresh air outside playing ball with their friends might set a few endorphins rolling around their heads for me lol! i do however feel like they were bribing me to buy them things so that they might behave, so might be a case of a rewards chart with a point scheme. i just dont know. behaviour is always worse when they come back from their dads when i think about it so i reckon that is a big factor (and i'm not trying to bad mouth my ex, its just when i think about it, its always well worse for 2/3 days after a visit). as for giving in in public, i dont, i literally remove them from where we are, i've left trolleys with the groceries in tesco when things got really bad. they know they cant have everything they want. i'm a single mother, i've explained that i have to buy the things they NEED before i buy the things they want and while the older one understands that its not that i dont want them to have things he is reasonably good that way but the small fella just wants. i know their dad does very little with them, buys them nothing, he wont even buy them clothes to keep in his house because he thinks i'm robbing him in maintenance but thats not an issue for here. he's not going to be seeing them for a while now again so i might have some chance to get them back on side without him interfering for a few weeks. aaaaaaaaah the stress is breaking me!