Solar Power.

kneemos

Notice planning permissions for quite a few solar farms lately.How can they be efficient in Ireland or are they a meet our emissions subsidised scam?
At least they aren't as visually polluting as wind farms.

tomwaterford

We get a week of good weather and people go mad

Solar farms ffs...

HornyDevil

kneemos wrote: »

At least they aren't as visually polluting as wind farms.

I have to sleep with one.

Alf Veedersane

kneemos wrote: »

Notice planning permissions for quite a few solar farms lately.How can they be efficient in Ireland or are they a meet our emissions subsidised scam?
At least they aren't as visually polluting as wind farms.

I suspect a lot of people are anticipating solar PV to be supported in the next REFIT scheme so people applying now.

Decent potential in the southern half of the country though.

There's a renewable target to be met by 2020 and they pretty much need to use as many different resources as possible

Presume they are the latest in "how do we screw as much money out of the EU in grants" scheme.

Same as wind turbines really. Oh like they contribute 5% to the grid and some private enterprise is drawing down money hand over fist until someone in 15 years asks how much it'll cost to replace them...at which point the charade will be up and we'll wonder why we gave up our landscape to chase a farce.

Peregrine

tomwaterford wrote: »

We get a week of good weather and people go mad

Solar farms ffs...

Didn't you hear? We're a tropical island now!

Alf Veedersane

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Presume they are the latest in "how do we screw as much money out of the EU in grants" scheme.

Same as wind turbines really. Oh like they contribute 5% to the grid and some private enterprise is drawing down money hand over fist until someone in 15 years asks how much it'll cost to replace them...at which point the charade will be up and we'll wonder why we gave up our landscape to chase a farce.

They're not a big eyesore on the landscape.

Ireland has to meet a target of 16% of energy from renewable sources by 2020. Which means fines if it's missed.

At 8.6% in 2014.

So if we rule out wind and solar and everything else, where does that leave us?

Wibbs

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

So if we rule out wind and solar and everything else, where does that leave us?

Wave. Man we would be fantastic for that.

darkpagandeath

I thought the issues was view and selling our Air and Sun to the British ?

Alf Veedersane

Wibbs wrote: »

Wave. Man we would be fantastic for that.

Hopefully. But it's still very much at RD&D stage so maybe linger term but not in the next 5 years.

There is a certain amount of support for offshore renewables including wave and tidal planned to come in this year.

Allinall

Wibbs wrote: »

Wave. Man we would be fantastic for that.

Right.

Just look how Mexico perfected it.

Wibbs

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

Hopefully. But it's still very much at RD&D stage so maybe linger term but not in the next 5 years.

I dunno AV, I clearly remember it being in the R&D stage back in the 70's. By now...

RayM

I used to live in a house with two small solar panels on the roof for heating water (I presume the builder got a grant for them). They were actually really good. In the summer, I had a near-permanent supply of boiling water. Saved a fortune in the winter too, because the water was already a bit warm whenever I switched the water heater on.

Alf Veedersane

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

They're not a big eyesore on the landscape.

Ireland has to meet a target of 16% of energy from renewable sources by 2020. Which means fines if it's missed.

At 8.6% in 2014.

So if we rule out wind and solar and everything else, where does that leave us?

I live on the Ring of Kerry, we can now see wind turbines matching across the horizons. A real blight. I don't want long term strategy in real money, tourism here, affected by private enterprises drawing down grants. It's a scam. I know many people involved in them who laugh at the while charade, it's all about drawing down grants as far as they're concerned. I'm not against renewable energy, but not at some short sighted expense. We should not end up looking like the Ruhr Valley.

Alf Veedersane

Wibbs wrote: »

I dunno AV, I clearly remember it being in the R&D stage back in the 70's. By now...

In Ireland though. It hasn't been continuous because of funding. There are a host of different technologies to be tested for cost effectiveness.

That said, it's being done in France, for example. There's a cool bridge at La Rance amd they generate over 600 GWh....but then the French do nucular as well so they're not afraid to press on

john the one

We need to look at nuclear...

Junkyard Tom

It's a bit short-sighted to expect the Sun to provide us with all our energy needs. If we extract power from the Sun it will shorten the Sun's life and then we're all screwed when that runs out. The term 'fiddling while the Sun burns' springs to mind.

Alf Veedersane

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I live on the Ring of Kerry, we can now see wind turbines matching across the horizons. A real blight. I don't want long term strategy in real money, tourism here, affected by private enterprises drawing down grants. It's a scam. I know many people involved in them who laugh at the while charade, it's all about drawing down grants as far as they're concerned. I'm not against renewable energy, but not at some short sighted expense. We should not end up looking like the Ruhr Valley.

They have to actually produce the energy though. They can't just, you know, nudge the decimal point over a spot.

It's their perception. Private companies...grants...scams. Not saying its not understandable but that doesn't mean it's well founded.

Everyone is ok with renewable energy once it's not visible or in their back yard.

So take away those wind farms that they laugh out...what then? Where does the renewable energy come from?

Edit: I do think the model for realisation of wind energy needs to be more community centred though. Any of the community based projects I've ever encountered have been a success because communities do not feel tlit has been foisted upon them and they have had a say. Hopefully that's the future

For Forks Sake

john the one wrote: »

We need to look at nuclear...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OoASZyihalc

darkpagandeath

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

They have to actually produce the energy though. They can't just, you know, nudge the decimal point over a spot.

It's their perception. Private companies...grants...scams. Not saying its not understandable but that doesn't mean it's well founded.

Everyone is ok with renewable energy once it's not visible or in their back yard.

So take away those wind farms that they laugh out...what then? Where does the renewable energy come from?

If they were put in Dublin no one would have an issue and could relax in their none view affecting white one off.

john the one

For Forks Sake wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OoASZyihalc

Vexed. I am Vexed.

Cee-Jay-Cee

RayM wrote: »

I used to live in a house with two small solar panels on the roof for heating water (I presume the builder got a grant for them). They were actually really good. In the summer, I had a near-permanent supply of boiling water. Saved a fortune in the winter too, because the water was already a bit warm whenever I switched the water heater on.

I hope you remembered to switch the emersion off!!!

Fiery mutant

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

It's a bit short-sighted to expect the Sun to provide us with all our energy needs. If we extract power from the Sun it will shorten the Sun's life and then we're all screwed when that runs out. The term 'fiddling while the Sun burns' springs to mind.

Huh?

lalababa

wind and solar and pumping reservoir are the way to go. wave and tidal to follow later. You could put a wind turbine on my head and i wouldn't bat an eyelid. There aren't that many turbines in kerry but they still churn out enough for 200,000 households. Anybody who can't appreciate how turbines and renewable sources help to maintain the environment is illogical. I can find both their physical and practical aesthetic much more appealing than that of moneypoint or Tarbert.

donegaLroad

DIY solar panel made from aluminium cans.

There are many instructional videos on youtube on how to make these, this clip is an interview with the inventor.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRZvAAqzXIw

Totofan99

john the one wrote: »

We need to look at nuclear...

+1 on this.

People have this irrational fear of nuclear power. I'd have absolutely no problem living next to one.

policarp

Ireland has a better window for solar power than Spain. Believe it or not.

LordSutch

RayM wrote: »

I used to live in a house with two small solar panels on the roof for heating water (I presume the builder got a grant for them). They were actually really good. In the summer, I had a near-permanent supply of boiling water. Saved a fortune in the winter too, because the water was already a bit warm whenever I switched the water heater on.

Here here, well worth the initial outlay.

kneemos

LordSutch wrote: »

Here here, well worth the initial outlay.

A gift I'd imagine in the summer when fires and heating aren't running,loads of hot water ?

snubbleste

Meanwhile your electricity bills are to rise to support renewable energy http://www.bonkers.ie/blog/gas-electricity/energy-regulator-proposes-32--increase-in-pso-levy-for-all-households/

Sh1tbag OToole

Wibbs wrote: »

I dunno AV, I clearly remember it being in the R&D stage back in the 70's. By now...

More efficient, cheaper solar panels are always 10 years away from mass production

Alf Veedersane

snubbleste wrote: »

Meanwhile your electricity bills are to rise to support renewable energy http://www.bonkers.ie/blog/gas-electricity/energy-regulator-proposes-32--increase-in-pso-levy-for-all-households/

They'd go up if renewables targets aren't met

mordeith

kneemos wrote: »

A gift I'd imagine in the summer when fires and heating aren't running,loads of hot water ?

Loads. We have two panels and have water upwards of 60 degrees on tap (system won't let water get any higher in the tank for safety reasons).

Conor20

Sh1tbag OToole wrote: »

More efficient, cheaper solar panels are always 10 years away from mass production

Sh1tbag OToole

Conor20 wrote: »

The tail end of that graph caused mostly by the Chinese govt subsidising the production of mono crystalline panels that have been around since the early 2000s to put European and American manufacturers out of business.

Conor20

Sh1tbag OToole wrote: »

The tail end of that graph caused mostly by the Chinese govt subsidising the production of mono crystalline panels that have been around since the early 2000s to put European and American manufacturers out of business.

When trying to decide whether to install solar panels or not, I am simply concerned with how much it will cost me against my current electricity costs. If they save more money over the lifetime of the panels than it costs to install them, then it probably makes sense to go ahead with. The dramatic drop in the cost of solar panels over the last 4-5 years shown in the graph means that Solar PV is now a viable investment for many home owners in Ireland, delivering an ROI higher than savings rates or mortgage rates - even without the support of a Feed in Tariff. Put in another way, I can make more money by installing solar panels than I can by putting that same €5k in the bank or paying down my mortgage.

Capt'n Midnight

john the one wrote: »

We need to look at nuclear...

Totofan99 wrote: »

+1 on this.

People have this irrational fear of nuclear power. I'd have absolutely no problem living next to one.

In the context of Ireland we don't have enough spinning reserve to backup a new-build reactor. Thanks to renewables our baseload is just 1GW

In May 2002 the Finish parliament approved construction of a new nuclear plant due to start operation in 2009.



That Finish nuclear plant's costs have trebled and it's been pushed back, yet again, to 2018 . Unlike us the Finns already had nuclear power stations so they were well ahead of us on the learning curve.

The nuclear industry has systemic problems like the problems with the reactor steel. Not just with the EPR's but also older reactors like Fessenheim too. We're talking stuff that should have been identified and fixed 40 years ago.

As for economics, Hinkley C has a strike price nearly twice the UK wholesale price. And it's index linked for 35 years. And that's on top of the increase in construction costs already. And there's a whole raft of sweeteners too


Meanwhile, the cost of Hinkley Point, which Edf put at £9bn in December 2010, is now reported to be £14bn.

EDF (EDF.PA) warned on Thursday that the cost of building two nuclear reactors in Britain could reach nearly 21 billion pounds, about three billion more than it said in October.


Worldwide the cost of wind turbines has dropped by up to 45% since 2010 and for solar the drop is more like 80%

Capt'n Midnight

Sh1tbag OToole wrote: »

More efficient, cheaper solar panels are always 10 years away from mass production

There are lots of proven technologies in the pipeline waiting to be commercialised.

Step improvements that get you an extra 5% in solar aren't uncommon. Some are simple tricks like allowing light into the back of the panel, others are more technical like being able to skip an expensive high energy step in silicon purification. And of course economies of scale kick in too.