Drones and wildlife

Tusky

Hello there.

I've seen a few mentions of how drones negatively affect wildlife but can't seem to find any solid info. Can someone explain what the issue is?

Thanks.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Look up articles on loss of eagle nest sites this season. Any disturbance of nesting sites is illegal and this includes by use of a drone. It stands to reason a drone will disturb wildlife.

OpenYourEyes

It's about disturbance. In summer birds can be disturbed off their nests, with the resulting chilling of the eggs or chilling/starvation of the chicks. In winter then, there's the potential to disturb large numbers of birds that have come here for the winter e.g. waders and wildfowl. Causing flocks of birds to fly due to disturbance prevents them from feeding and causes them to use up vital fat reserves too, which can affect their survival.

Conservation scientists are looking into potential advantages of drone technology in monitoring large numbers of seabirds for example, but that is/would only be done under strict conditions, training and licensing.

fryup

Aldi are selling one at the moment :rolleyes: in which any dope can walk in and buy it

its about time there was legislation on these things/pests

magicbastarder

fryup wrote: »

its about time there was legislation on these things/pests

there is legislation in the pipeline, i believe. i'd be surprised if it included anything specific to wildlife disturbance.

Half-cocked

I think education rather than legislation is what's needed. A lot of drone owners simply might not realize the harm they are causing. Legislation to make drone disturbance illegal won't be worth the paper it's printed on - no resources/enforcement.

OpenYourEyes

Half-cocked wrote: »

I think education rather than legislation is what's needed. A lot of drone owners simply might not realize the harm they are causing. Legislation to make drone disturbance illegal won't be worth the paper it's printed on - no resources/enforcement.

Agreed! There's already legislation to prevent intentional disturbance of birds, photography at nest sites etc so we don't need any drone-specific legislation in that regard, but certainly increased awareness and enforcement would do the trick!

fryup

Half-cocked wrote: »

I think education rather than legislation is what's needed. A lot of drone owners simply might not realize the harm they are causing.

then again a lot of them don't care, esp teenagers

Reati

Hello friends. I came across this thread because of a post in Bargin alerts and I wanted to come over and give a point of view of something who uses drones legally for photography. As an FYI - I'm a fully licensed Remotely piloted aircraft systems (aka a drone) pilot who has passed all the written and practical flight testing required to operate drones legally in Ireland.

There are a couple of things that jumped out to me on the thread:

Regulations
Drones are regulated heavily in Ireland. All drones over 1kg legally need to be registered with the IAA. All drones 4kg and above require you to have completed written and practical flight testing. The allowed usage of drones is very explicitly defined in law.

The IAA and the guards have powers to deal (confiscate and fine) with people using drones incorrectly. As someone also noted the NPWS already have powers to deal with people taking photos (regardless of if it's with a drone or a 500mm canon lens) or disturbing wildlife.

Education
There isn't a lack of education, in fact there is a ton of education out there for people who want to use drones. Indeed in registering your drone, you need to pass several pages which detail in picture format the do's and do not's of drones. While more education won't hurt I personally think there should be stronger enforcement of the rules.

The Clare Eagles
I want to preface this with my view on the matter: Drone behavior that purposely interferes with wildlife is completely unacceptable and should be reported and prosecuted.

As someone who is also a wildlife nut, the post I saw in BA really got me going. I've seen several stupid videos of people getting attacked by birds while using drones and that annoys me. In my experience, birds will not go near a drone unless they view it as a threat. Drone pilots should land if birds take an interest in the craft. Neither the drone nor the bird will come out of it well otherwise.

On further reading of this case, it feels like another drone scare story with little to no actual proof the drone was the issue except "someone saw a drone in the area at some point". In fact, in the article I read Dr. Allan Mee makes reference to Jetskis, fishermen, Kayaking, the cold weather and natural causes as other possible causes, with the cold weather the likely cause.

This kind of story can do damage to the drone industry and the overall image of drones, especially as there doesn't seem to be proof it was a drone. People are already incorrectly paranoid drones are spying on them and this hearsay and opinion is simply not helpful to people who fly drones legally.

I'm very aware that people ignore the rules though so if you see someone operating a drone in a manner that is endangering wildlife or the public, please, please, please call the guards. If you can't see the operator but have a eye ball on the drone be aware that all drones registered in Ireland will have a number on them (something EI-xxxxx). If you can get the number off one behaving inappropriately contact the IAA and tell them. They will know who owns it and can investigate the usage.

If people have questions about drones, using them or the like fire away and I'll try answer best I can.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Reati wrote: »

Hello friends. I came across this thread because of a post in Bargin alerts and I wanted to come over and give a point of view of something who uses drones legally for photography. As an FYI - I'm a fully licensed Remotely piloted aircraft systems (aka a drone) pilot who has passed all the written and practical flight testing required to operate drones legally in Ireland.

There are a couple of things that jumped out to me on the thread:

Regulations
Drones are regulated heavily in Ireland. All drones over 1kg legally need to be registered with the IAA. All drones 4kg and above require you to have completed written and practical flight testing. The allowed usage of drones is very explicitly defined in law.

The IAA and the guards have powers to deal (confiscate and fine) with people using drones incorrectly. As someone also noted the NPWS already have powers to deal with people taking photos (regardless of if it's with a drone or a 500mm canon lens) or disturbing wildlife.

Education
There isn't a lack of education, in fact there is a ton of education out there for people who want to use drones. Indeed in registering your drone, you need to pass several pages which detail in picture format the do's and do not's of drones. While more education won't hurt I personally think there should be stronger enforcement of the rules.

The Clare Eagles
I want to preface this with my view on the matter: Drone behavior that purposely interferes with wildlife is completely unacceptable and should be reported and prosecuted.

As someone who is also a wildlife nut, the post I saw in BA really got me going. I've seen several stupid videos of people getting attacked by birds while using drones and that annoys me. In my experience, birds will not go near a drone unless they view it as a threat. Drone pilots should land if birds take an interest in the craft. Neither the drone nor the bird will come out of it well otherwise.

On further reading of this case, it feels like another drone scare story with little to no actual proof the drone was the issue except "someone saw a drone in the area at some point". In fact, in the article I read Dr. Allan Mee makes reference to Jetskis, fishermen, Kayaking, the cold weather and natural causes as other possible causes, with the cold weather the likely cause.

This kind of story can do damage to the drone industry and the overall image of drones, especially as there doesn't seem to be proof it was a drone. People are already incorrectly paranoid drones are spying on them and this hearsay and opinion is simply not helpful to people who fly drones legally.

I'm very aware that people ignore the rules though so if you see someone operating a drone in a manner that is endangering wildlife or the public, please, please, please call the guards. If you can't see the operator but have a eye ball on the drone be aware that all drones registered in Ireland will have a number on them (something EI-xxxxx). If you can get the number off one behaving inappropriately contact the IAA and tell them. They will know who owns it and can investigate the usage.

If people have questions about drones, using them or the like fire away and I'll try answer best I can.

I think you are missing many of the arguments. The drone in Aldi requires no regulation and any twirl can go in and buy on.

There is not education on the subject for those who walk into a supermarket and just buy a drone. Of course it's available if people are interested enough to look but that's not sufficient.

Of course drone fliers should move away if they see birds disturbed. But again, that's only the responsible ones and even then the damage may be done.

As for getting the registration number. Where is it on the Aldi drones and who registers them when you can buy them with your weekly shopping?

Reati

Dream Uninterested Transmission wrote: »

I think you are missing many of the arguments. The drone in Aldi requires no regulation and any twirl can go in and buy on.

There is not education on the subject for those who walk into a supermarket and just buy a drone. Of course it's available if people are interested enough to look but that's not sufficient.

Of course drone fliers should move away if they see birds disturbed. But again, that's only the responsible ones and even then the damage may be done.

As for getting the registration number. Where is it on the Aldi drones and who registers them when you can buy them with your weekly shopping?

I'm not missing any of the arguments raised in the thread. I've think I addressed most of them actually.

Here's a recap.

• There is no proof in your post that insinuates a drone caused the breeding failure.
• There is already regulations for drones and their use in Ireland.
• I agree there needs to be more education and stronger enforcement of rules.
• People caught using a drone (or anything tbh) to disturb wildlife should be prosecuted.
• People caught doing anything illegal with a Drone should be investigated at a minimum.

The original post that I've brought me here is in Bargin alerts and states that a drone is linked to the Eagles not breeding. There is zero proof of that.

OpenYourEyes wrote: »

someone using a drone near a nest in Clare has already been linked to causing the breeding failure of two eagles who bring in thousands of tourists and a lot of money to the local economy of the town there.

Seeing it's off topic there and you folks started a similar topic I replied here about the Clare eagles and try to be educational as it's misleading to claim drones were the cause of the breeding failure with no proof whatsoever other than "someone says a drone was flying" and when Dr Mee himself states the cold in April was the likely cause.

For some reason you seem to be concerned about a R/C toy Aldi are selling.

So let's look about the details of the toy:

• It's under 1kg.
• It has a 30 meter max flight range
• It operates on a cheap 2.4ghz spectrum transmitter (like WiFi)
• It has a tiny LiPO battery (It says 10 mins but i doubt you'd get that)
• It's made of styrofoam

As it's under 1kg no, it doesn't need to be registered nor will it have a reg number in line with the law. (The drones you should be worried about will)

So, you fly that thing 30 meters away chances are you're not getting it back. Can it really go 30 meters anyway? I doubt it. How far away from a cheap wifi modem can you walk and still have a useful signal? I imagine if you were to bring it out in a strong breeze it would blow away and that'd be that. I've messed with these things and they are R/C toys, not drones and they have been around for years.

There will always be people are going to do bad things in the world. Be it drive drunk, speed, fly drones over airport, thieve, disturb nests to take selfies etc. Fear-mongering doesn't stop any of it. The drone industry, pilots and agencies like the IAA are doing a great job educating people who use real drones but it needs to be backed up with enforcement (which IMO is the weak area at the moment). If the primary problem in this thread is the fact Aldi are selling a R/C toy that will blow away in a breeze with no education about how Eagles won't breed if you fly it near them, why not contact them and let them know they should include a fact sheet. My drones all came with the rules in the box from the manufacturer. You'll likely get a PFO but least you are doing something about it.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

It's the 'toy' in Aldi that gave rise to this thread. The BA thread was moved from here. And it's the 'toy' that someone wanted to film wildlife with. And it's the 'toy' that has no regulation, no training, no education,and no regulation.

OpenYourEyes

I agree with what you're saying Reati, some of it being quite encouraging in fact. As with everything better education and better enforcement are always needed and worth aiming for to reduce any potential conflict or problems.

With regards the Clare Eagles, a few different causes of disturbance were mentioned one of which was a drone being flown near the island. There's obviously no precise knowledge of the timing or duration of these multitude of disturbances so we can only discuss and make people aware that all of those cuases of disturbance - be they drones, fishermen, kayakers, photographers or whatever - all have the potential to cause breeding failure and in reality all have a cumulative effect. While extended disturbance on a given day often causes breeding failure, repeated short disturbance over a nice weekend or even longer can also cause death by a thousand cuts, so to speak. In a cold month the eggs obviously stand less of a chance than in a warm/calm one.

So I fully understand you being defensive about drones, and I fully agree that a) there's no evidence to say drones caused the eggs to fail, and b) from the sounds of it there were possibly multiple problems around the nest site, whether a drone was top or bottom of that list we have no idea.. But bear in mind that in threads about drones it will be the role and potential problems caused by drones that the discussion focuses on. That's not to say they're the worst problem, just the most relevant one to that thread!

magicbastarder

one comment i'd have is that the weight criterion re licencing is an odd one; i know they had to pick some parameter to use, but i would have expected physical size would have made more sense. a cheap heavy drone could end up requiring licencing where a more expensive lighter one with the same physical dimensions would escape.

Reati

Dream Uninterested Transmission wrote: »

It's the 'toy' in Aldi that gave rise to this thread. The BA thread was moved from here. And it's the 'toy' that someone wanted to film wildlife with. And it's the 'toy' that has no regulation, no training, no education,and no regulation.

Glad to see you agree it's a toy but have ignored everything else I've said about how this toy wouldn't fly 25 feet away without getting lost. And not to be anal on the details but it is regulated actually, it just doesn't need to be registered.

As for training and education aspects, I'm dead serious. Why are you not writing to the IAA with your concerns? I've done so in the past. I can even point you to the person in charge of drones in Ireland if you seriously want to make a point on this.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Recti , I have many contacts in the field of Wildlife conservation in Ireland at all levels, so I'm fine for places to voice my concerns and have done so. Thanks anyway.

Reati

Dream Uninterested Transmission wrote: »

Recti , I have many contacts in the field of Wildlife conservation in Ireland at all levels, so I'm fine for places to voice my concerns and have done so. Thanks anyway.

That's great and all but The NPWS already have legislation in place that covers protection of wildlife no matter what you are doing / using. The NPWS have nothing to do with Drones or the concerns you keep looping back on, i.e the Aldi's of this world selling Toy "drones" with no education, so why wouldn't you want to contact the regulatory authority whose job it is to regulate and ensure the safe, appropriate use of drones of all sizes in Ireland?

Reati

OpenYourEyes wrote: »

I agree with what you're saying Reati, some of it being quite encouraging in fact. As with everything better education and better enforcement are always needed and worth aiming for to reduce any potential conflict or problems.

With regards the Clare Eagles, a few different causes of disturbance were mentioned one of which was a drone being flown near the island. There's obviously no precise knowledge of the timing or duration of these multitude of disturbances so we can only discuss and make people aware that all of those cuases of disturbance - be they drones, fishermen, kayakers, photographers or whatever - all have the potential to cause breeding failure and in reality all have a cumulative effect. While extended disturbance on a given day often causes breeding failure, repeated short disturbance over a nice weekend or even longer can also cause death by a thousand cuts, so to speak. In a cold month the eggs obviously stand less of a chance than in a warm/calm one.

So I fully understand you being defensive about drones, and I fully agree that a) there's no evidence to say drones caused the eggs to fail, and b) from the sounds of it there were possibly multiple problems around the nest site, whether a drone was top or bottom of that list we have no idea.. But bear in mind that in threads about drones it will be the role and potential problems caused by drones that the discussion focuses on. That's not to say they're the worst problem, just the most relevant one to that thread!

It's nice to have a reasonable reply. Thank you.

I'm not here to pick a fight and I will admit to being defensive about drones as the scare mongering is something fierce thanks to the likes of the daily mail. The Clare Eagles thing is a perfect example of it. Someone saw a drone and therefore it was the cause of the Eagles not breeding. Correlation is not equal to causation.

I'm on side with you the underlying premise of the thread that drones could be used to disturb them and I tried to explain in my first post how to report someone (what a reg number looks like, calling the gaurds, reporting it to the IAA etc) doing this with a real drone which are also readily available and to be honest more likely to be operated in a stupid fashion because of the HD results of the images and video produce and social media's click bait nature.

I personally hope that drones didn't cause this but if they are found to be the reason, it does need to be dealt with. But I will swear by this - it wasn't a toy drone from Aldi that was spotted flying around the area.

Reati

magicbastarder wrote: »

one comment i'd have is that the weight criterion re licencing is an odd one; i know they had to pick some parameter to use, but i would have expected physical size would have made more sense. a cheap heavy drone could end up requiring licencing where a more expensive lighter one with the same physical dimensions would escape.

Much of the legislation in aviation is based on weight. The reason is take two drones of the same size but one is >1KG and the other 100grams. The >1kg drone falling on your head will do more damage than a 100gram drone.