Should I repeat the leaving cert?

CreepyOnion

I want to study veterinary medicine in UCD but I don't study chemistry and probably won't get 575 points anyway. I could do a 4 year science course to get a degree in biology and then get into the 4 year graduate veterinary course, but I'm not sure if I want to spend 4 years doing general science first.

Also there's only 10 places for the graduate veterinary course so I might not get in even after getting a degree in biology.

On the other hand, I hate the thought of repeating the leaving cert. If I were to repeat, would it be a bad idea to do it from home while getting grinds in each subject maybe once a week?

spurious

Bad idea? Only you can say - can you motivate yourself to work on your own for six, seven hours a day? A grind a week in 6 subjects could set you back between 200 and 300 euro a week - can you afford that?

I would agree it's easier to repeat the Leaving Cert in one year than to take a chance on getting into a Science degree, completing it and then taking a chance on being one of the few chosen for Grad Med.

The easiest option would be to repeat in a school. Doesn't have to be a school you went to, doesn't have to be a place that will fleece you either. For the vast majority of people, I would not advise trying to do it yourself at home. Have you looked at somewhere like Rathmines College CDETB?

CreepyOnion

I don't think motivation would be a problem. Regarding the grinds, how often would you say they're necessary? The only subject I'd really need help with would be chemistry since I'd be taking it up. Everything else I could work at by myself for the most part.

Chilli Con Kearney

Hi OP. Would you consider veterinary nursing? The points are obviously lower. Also, you could do a plc which can get you into this course (none for vet science).

If vet nursing isn't an option and you can't get into vet medicine through the cao points, then a better option than science would be to do ag science and specialise in animal/equestrian then do the graduate vet science.

Hope this helps.

daraghwal

CreepyOnion wrote: »

I want to study veterinary medicine in UCD but I don't study chemistry and probably won't get 575 points anyway. I could do a 4 year science course to get a degree in biology and then get into the 4 year graduate veterinary course, but I'm not sure if I want to spend 4 years doing general science first.

Also there's only 10 places for the graduate veterinary course so I might not get in even after getting a degree in biology.

On the other hand, I hate the thought of repeating the leaving cert. If I were to repeat, would it be a bad idea to do it from home while getting grinds in each subject maybe once a week?

I'm in the same boat as you. I want to study vetmed but I know myself I am not going to get the points this year. Next year I have decided I'm going to take on ag science and go to the same school I am going to this year. You will have to do chemistry in a school somewhere. It would be impossible to do it on your own in one year. If you aren't going to get the points this year then you probably need to be in a school if you repeat next year.

If like me, vetmed is the only thing you want to do then you should probably repeat first. I was in UCD on a tour with a graduate vetmed student and she said there's people do the leaving 3 times before they get in and that's actually what she recommended. There is a lot more work in 4 years of college than in one repeat leaving cert. If you don't repeat the leaving certificate, then your only option is to do a 4 year degree, complete that, apply for graduate entry vetmed, hopefully be one of the 10 or so to get in and come out of college in 8 years time. The one thing about grad vetmed is the fees. Almost €20,000 a year alone just for fees. Not including accommodation, food or anything else.

If you do repeat the leaving cert, do your chemistry and apply to UCD. You can apply to colleges in the UK too. Scottish colleges (glasgow and edinburgh) have around the same yearly fees as Ireland I think but if you go to england, I think the fees are £10,000 per year. This year I applied to Edinburgh and did an interview over there but got rejected . It is still very hard to get into the uk colleges and I don't know what the grades they will require next year are as the lc format is changing.

Hope this helps and good luck! Might see you next year

CreepyOnion

daraghwal wrote: »

I'm in the same boat as you. I want to study vetmed but I know myself I am not going to get the points this year. Next year I have decided I'm going to take on ag science and go to the same school I am going to this year. You will have to do chemistry in a school somewhere. It would be impossible to do it on your own in one year. If you aren't going to get the points this year then you probably need to be in a school if you repeat next year.

If like me, vetmed is the only thing you want to do then you should probably repeat first. I was in UCD on a tour with a graduate vetmed student and she said there's people do the leaving 3 times before they get in and that's actually what she recommended. There is a lot more work in 4 years of college than in one repeat leaving cert. If you don't repeat the leaving certificate, then your only option is to do a 4 year degree, complete that, apply for graduate entry vetmed, hopefully be one of the 10 or so to get in and come out of college in 8 years time. The one thing about grad vetmed is the fees. Almost €20,000 a year alone just for fees. Not including accommodation, food or anything else.

If you do repeat the leaving cert, do your chemistry and apply to UCD. You can apply to colleges in the UK too. Scottish colleges (glasgow and edinburgh) have around the same yearly fees as Ireland I think but if you go to england, I think the fees are £10,000 per year. This year I applied to Edinburgh and did an interview over there but got rejected . It is still very hard to get into the uk colleges and I don't know what the grades they will require next year are as the lc format is changing.

Hope this helps and good luck! Might see you next year

Thought it over and I think I will just repeat in a school. What's one more year right? Thanks for the help all and good luck to you too

Wanderer41

Are you in 5th or 6th year? If you're in 5th year you could take up chemistry next year, and even start a bit over summer. If you're doing your Leaving Cert. then I would repeat. Much easier than doing a whole degree for four years and then doing veterinary.

deisedays

Don't do it, that's my advice
I've a good friend who is a vet, qualified about 10 years, and the cons outweigh the pro in his opinion ( I would trust this guy to give an honest answer)
Pros
Job satisfaction, sometimes

Cons
Tremendously difficult undergraduate course
Long hours
Unsocial hours
Weekend work
Isolation
Pressure of running own business
Difficulty in getting paid
No pension
Poor salary, relatively speaking
Very narrow qualification which will not allow you to work in some other industry if the vet job doesn't work out
Declining amount of work available and too many vets chasing a smaller and smaller number of clients

I don't mean to discourage, but have a serious think about what you are really going to need out of a job/career over your working life....
Do you really need all of the above, when an easier option is available????

daraghwal

deisedays wrote: »

Don't do it, that's my advice
I've a good friend who is a vet, qualified about 10 years, and the cons outweigh the pro in his opinion ( I would trust this guy to give an honest answer)
Pros
Job satisfaction, sometimes

Cons
Tremendously difficult undergraduate course
Long hours
Unsocial hours
Weekend work
Isolation
Pressure of running own business
Difficulty in getting paid
No pension
Poor salary, relatively speaking
Very narrow qualification which will not allow you to work in some other industry if the vet job doesn't work out
Declining amount of work available and too many vets chasing a smaller and smaller number of clients

I don't mean to discourage, but have a serious think about what you are really going to need out of a job/career over your working life....
Do you really need all of the above, when an easier option is available????

Is your friend a large or small animal vet or both?

Yes, it is probably one of if not the most difficult course in the CAO system. Many have said it is harder than medicine but if Veterinary is what you want I am sure you, like me, will be motivated to work for it.

Veterinary Medicine is in no way a narrow qualification. You can work in a practice, on farms, in factories, for the department of ag, the WHO, EU jobs, teach etc… the list goes on.

I have also talked to vets who believe that there is going to be a huge shortage of vets in the future as those who get the points (mainly women) move jobs in a couple of years after having children.

How are clients decreasing? Vets are actually making more money now with companion animals than ever before. I do agree that large animals is a tough job and may not be well paid but if anyone is going into veterinary for the money they need to find themselves another profession.

To add to that pros list:
1. Possibility of owning and running own business.
2. Could find your dream, very rewarding job.
3. Can travel and work in the job you love all around the world (especially if you get AVMA accreditation).
4. There are some veterinary jobs that are very well paid.
5. Job satisfaction, a lot of the time, more than most jobs I would think. Many people wonder why you would want to be in a shed in the freezing cold at 4am on the Wicklow mountains but the way I see it is why wouldn't you want to see that calf being born. Without you would have definitely died.

*Obviously this is just my own opinion, someone who actually wants to become a vet in the future. I am obviously biased towards veterinary but I would not want to become a vet if I didn't think the pros outweighed the cons.

adam240610

Don't think about this until you have finished your leaving cert. It won't help.

daraghwal

adam240610 wrote: »

Don't think about this until you have finished your leaving cert. It won't help.

I knew I was going to be repeating anyway as I won't have the points this year. So did CreepyOnion as s/he doesn't have chemistry

Why don't you look into doing it abroad?
I believe there's a lot of Irish students in Bulgaria studying to be vets .

daraghwal

bubblypop wrote: »

Why don't you look into doing it abroad?
I believe there's a lot of Irish students in Bulgaria studying to be vets .

Budapest there's a lot of Irish people there although it is still very far from home. Fees are I think around €10,000 per year also and I have heard it is more challenging. Edinburgh and Glasgow are around the same as Irish fees (although who knows if brexit goes through). The one thing about UK vetmed is in the interview you need to know your stuff about your work experience and what you said in your personal statement.

CreepyOnion

I think most of me wanting to repeat was just pre-LC panic, so I wouldn't have to pressure myself.

sd97

Chilli Con Kearney wrote: »

Hi OP. Would you consider veterinary nursing? The points are obviously lower. Also, you could do a plc which can get you into this course (none for vet science).

If vet nursing isn't an option and you can't get into vet medicine through the cao points, then a better option than science would be to do ag science and specialise in animal/equestrian then do the graduate vet science.

Hope this helps.

If someone is thinking of trying for graduate entry veterinary then actually the best science course to do first is not an animal related one. It looks better from the point of view of the college if a graduate has a degree in science giving them a broad base, not just animal science.

daraghwal

sd97 wrote: »

If someone is thinking of trying for graduate entry veterinary then actually the best science course to do first is not an animal related one. It looks better from the point of view of the college if a graduate has a degree in science giving them a broad base, not just animal science.

Not a bad idea for anyone who's not sure of vetmed!

sd97

daraghwal wrote: »

Not a bad idea for anyone who's not sure of vetmed!

Definitely! I want to do veterinary myself and if it doesn't work out for me I've decided I will repeat. I always just said I'd go do science then apply for graduate entry but at the end of the day being a vet is the only career I want so there's no point in going about it the long way, the leaving Cert isn't that bad anyway and I think after this year I would go in to it next year knowing exactly what to do

deisedays

No worries- if it's what you really want, go for it
Just be sure that it will be also what you want in 10, 20, or 30 years time.
E.g. if you have toddlers at home and your wife is sick and your elderly parents need looking after.....you may not want to be wandering around cowsheds in the middle of the night for small money.
Google the new york times article "High Debt and Falling Demand Trap New Vets"... I can't post the link.
Have a think about what's being said and then think again
Best of luck with your decision in any case

daraghwal

deisedays wrote: »

No worries- if it's what you really want, go for it
Just be sure that it will be also what you want in 10, 20, or 30 years time.
E.g. if you have toddlers at home and your wife is sick and your elderly parents need looking after.....you may not want to be wandering around cowsheds in the middle of the night for small money.
Google the new york times article "High Debt and Falling Demand Trap New Vets"... I can't post the link.
Have a think about what's being said and then think again
Best of luck with your decision in any case

I agree that people need to be sure that it's what they want to do in 10, 20 or 30 years time but the high debt and falling demand is very much an American problem. In Ireland I heard from other vets there is going to be a need for more vets in a few years and also that debt problem is related to college fees in the US. They pay massive amounts of money to go to college and are then crippled with debt purely because of the fees. I suppose it is the same for grad entry vets but not for people going straight in after the leaving where the fees are stuck at about €3000 per year compared to nearly €20,000 a year for grad entry.

I know I will be repeating next year and actually I'm fine with that compared to doing a 4 year degree, then having the slim chance of being one of the ten or so that gets in to grad entry vetmed and then doing another 4 years of vetmed paying in total about €90,000 in fees over the 8 years not including living costs, accommodation etc. It would be very hard to pay off that €90,000 when your about 27 on a starting wage for a vet. Then you decide maybe to get married and get a house and that's where the debt comes in. This is why I'm happy to repeat the leaving .

deisedays

I really don't want to discourage you but according to my pal- I was actually talking to him tonight- there has been a vast increase in the number of vets on the register in Ireland since overseas grads came on the scene
A few years back if you didnt make the grade in the LC you didn't get to be a vet and there was no Division 2 or Division 3 option in Hungary or whereever for those that didn't pack what it took to qualify in Ireland...
Talk to a few young vets working in Ireland. Ask about salaries. Then think about what a house costs these days and that you can only borrow 3.5 times your salary.
It's grand to say your not going into veterinary to make money but it's a different kettle of fish if you are a few years in and can't buy a house for your family or afford private health insurance or a holiday. Dreams change and believe it or not, when you are 30 or 40 the dream might be to own a nice home or have VHI, as daft as it sounds, rather than worrying about some scuttery calf in a drafty shed belonged to some farmer who never pays his bill.
You sound like a bright person with a good work ethic and some ambitions. Have a look at your options. I'd say you have many, very many.
A career isn't for Christmas, it's for life
Don't end up like my pal the vet!