A professional observation of mine from the Bataclan theatre.

DamagedTrax

As a sound engineer by trade (HDip in Audio Engineering & nearly 20 years recording experience), ive noticed an obvious smoking gun from the Bataclan press coverage.

The following photo (which has numerous other inconsistencies asides from this one) really jumped out at me as the mixing desk is a very particular type of 80/90s analogue desk.

Bottom left corner, most likely a 'Soundcraft' model as they tend to be dull colours (mostly grey) and are one of the industry standards as most engineers (including myself) learn on them. The other standard analogue desks for live use are by 'Midas' and have always been a vibrant blue colour.
(Sorry for the DM link but its the largest i could find).
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/11/16/12/2E7E565900000578-3319244-image-a-1_1447677437452.jpg


However, in Tuesday Cross' video (taken from various points in the venue), as she passes the engineer it is clear to see he is using a modern digital desk (most likely an avid/digidesign 'venue' desk) with 5/6 snap-on lamps and a lever-arm visual monitor.

Aside from the actual differences in the look of the 2 desks, the one in the video is also lit up in a way only a digital desk can work. An analogue desk will really only have 3 or 4 components (per channel strip) that will use bulbs (mute/solo buttons, some routing buttons and LED or needle meters), whereas a digital desk can have LEDs behind every control with real time updates and feedback (as is happening in the video).

He is also flanked by various racks of hardware, which are strangely absent from the crimescene photo.

Watch from 6:20 onwards:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRq1-zwODaA

And finally! The desk has been stripped down, there's not a cable to be seen (usually there would be a snake of cables in groups of 8 (16, 24, 48...) and the dust cover is half on! Now thats priorities! The worlds most dedicated sound engineer.. feck the bullets, im doing the load out.

Now either the police let the EODM crew strip down while there were still dead bodies in the venue and potentially destroy a crime scene (:eek:)...

or this has to be proof of some sort of media manipulation. The desks dont even have the same internal workings, let alone bloody look alike.

Dohnjoe

DamagedTrax wrote: »

ive noticed an obvious smoking gun from the Bataclan press coverage.

A smoking gun of what exactly?

DamagedTrax

Dohnjoe wrote: »

A smoking gun of what exactly?

That barring a monstrous break in the chain of evidence by the cops, the time the photo is proclaimed to have been, cant possibly be the right time.


1. It is 100% not the same desk. Since my original post ive discovered that Shawn London used a Midas digital desk for that EODM tour.

Therefore the photo cant have been taken before EODM's rig was loaded out (on that night anyway.)



2, Are we to believe that the police let the engineer & crew load out, given Shawn London's statement that shots were flying past his head as he was working? The desk and equipment would need to be forensically studied for spatter and other evidence and the engineer/crew would have been questioned on or off site.

This again brings the timeline into question.



3. Since the backstage area of a venue has the ramp setup for the load out, are we to believe that IF the police allowed a load out, they'd allow it before (or while) dead bodies are being removed? This would also have destroyed the crime scene.

Once again the timeline is in question because without a boubt, the police would have that building locked down and that equipment was going nowhere for a while.

Dohnjoe

This is labelled a "smoking gun", for what exactly?

DamagedTrax

Dohnjoe wrote: »

This is labelled a "smoking gun", for what exactly?

I said it in the first post. Its a smoking gun of media manipulation, either by or against.

It is very clear the time (claimed) of the photo is incorrect but the bodies make it clear that the time claimed, is supposed to be perceived as correct.. but because of the desk inconsistency, the latter cannot be true.

If that's the case, when was it taken? And why is it being passed off to the public as just after the event?

DamagedTrax

DamagedTrax wrote: »

I sid it in the first post. Its a smoking gun of media manipulation, either by or against.

But how is it manipulating the media? To what benefit? Why would they alter the equipment after the attack?

And where exactly is the photo you are posting being presented as "just after the event?"

DamagedTrax

And where exactly is the photo you are posting being presented as "just after the event?"

I dont mean minutes. I mean in the proceeding hours, before the injured and bodies were fully removed.

King Mob wrote: »

But how is it manipulating the media?

It is being falsely presented to the public by either the unknown source or the media.

To what benefit? Why would they alter the equipment after the attack?

Ive no idea to be honest. But the fact remains that the equipment used by Shawn London is gone, yet there are still bodies laying about.

Can you honestly say that the cops would let a road crew drag a whole load of flight cases through a crime scene of that magnitude, on the same night it happened? I'm pretty sure that wouldnt happen.

So if the band got their gear out the next day (they didnt leave paris until the following evening as per news reports), why isnt it in the photo?


To be clear, i said in my first post that this is all dependent on the timing of the load out. If anyone can find anything that suggests the load out was done during the injured/dead clean-up, i'll happily take it into account. But so far Shawn London hasnt mentioned it in the interviews that he has given.

He does however talk about meeting up with the band at the police station right after the attack, presumably when they all gave their statements.. probably took a while getting that done. (coincidentally, it would be about the time he'd have to be loading out for the picture time to be correct).

K.Flyer

DamagedTrax wrote: »

I dont mean minutes. I mean in the proceeding hours, before the injured and bodies were fully removed.




It is being falsely presented to the public by either the unknown source or the media.



Ive no idea to be honest. But the fact remains that the equipment used by Shawn London is gone, yet there are still bodies laying about.

Can you honestly say that the cops would let a road crew drag a whole load of flight cases through a crime scene of that magnitude, on the same night it happened? I'm pretty sure that wouldnt happen.

So if the band got their gear out the next day (they didnt leave paris until the following evening as per news reports), why isnt it in the photo?


To be clear, i said in my first post that this is all dependent on the timing of the load out. If anyone can find anything that suggests the load out was done during the injured/dead clean-up, i'll happily take it into account. But so far Shawn London hasnt mentioned it in the interviews that he has given.

He does however talk about meeting up with the band at the police station right after the attack, presumably when they all gave their statements.. probably took a while getting that done. (coincidentally, it would be about the time he'd have to be loading out for the picture time to be correct).

I get what you are saying. It really does seem very strange that they allowed the engineer take everything down while the floor was littered with dead bodies.
There is a raw version of the picture you used and given as you have described it is a little bit odd.
Looking at the video again, it appears to me that there is a smaller (digital) mixer sitting on top of the house unit. As the camera pans to the left you get to see a section of the house (analog) desk.
Here is a pic I found of the room with the house desk.



Obviously the band have their own equipment which they use in conjunction with the house back line, but it is very odd that they were allowed in to take it away with dead bodies still lying around.

DamagedTrax

DamagedTrax wrote: »

It is being falsely presented to the public by either the unknown source or the media.

Ive no idea to be honest. But the fact remains that the equipment used by Shawn London is gone, yet there are still bodies laying about.

There's no sensible benefit for why they would do this. It does not help[ the conspiracy in any way and it in no way points to a conspiracy, even if your assumptions held.
It can't be a smoking gun if you don't actually know how it points to the crime.

DamagedTrax wrote: »

Can you honestly say that the cops would let a road crew drag a whole load of flight cases through a crime scene of that magnitude, on the same night it happened? I'm pretty sure that wouldnt happen.

Yes, why can't that be the explaination?
Because you are assuming that the police wouldn't allow it?

There are dozens of plausible, non-conspiracy explanations for why the equipment might be different.
For example, perhaps the photo was taken after the police had finished their technical examination, and the equipment was free to be removed, just before the bodies since they didn't require specialised workers to handle them. Or perhaps the equipment was removed by the police as evidence before the bodies. Or the equipment was removed by the police and returned to the band rather than allowing a road crew as you are assuming.

DamagedTrax wrote: »

To be clear, i said in my first post that this is all dependent on the timing of the load out.

Yes, it is based on your assumptions about timing and police procedures, which could be totally wrong.
And given there is any number of non-conspiracy explanations, and argee that your explanation doesn't make much sense, it's a pretty safe bet that your assumptions are wrong.

DamagedTrax

K.Flyer wrote: »

I get what you are saying. It really does seem very strange that they allowed the engineer take everything down while the floor was littered with dead bodies.
There is a raw version of the picture you used and given as you have described it is a little bit odd.
Looking at the video again, it appears to me that there is a smaller (digital) mixer sitting on top of the house unit. As the camera pans to the left you get to see a section of the house (analog) desk.
Here is a pic I found of the room with the house desk.



Obviously the band have their own equipment which they use in conjunction with the house back line, but it is very odd that they were allowed in to take it away with dead bodies still lying around.

Thats exactly what im saying. By the way, Shawn used a midas desk that has a visual monitor build onto the meter bridge. You can also see quite a few racks of outboard hardware. Was that allowed to be removed from a crimescene too?

Its an odd situation that really stuck out at me given i spend a good amount of time on desks just like them.

DamagedTrax

By coincidence, the U2 entourage was in the city loading into the Palais de Bercy for two shows. They offered help and advice, and forged a strong bond as Toth and his band were kept under high security in a city hotel. Negotiations began with the FBI to repatriate the band, while the theatre was locked down and combed for forensic evidence – trapping all band and crew possessions inside. Only weeks later was Toth able to begin the harrowing process of recovering what was left…

Did you go back to the theatre?
No, it was decided that wasn’t right for me. I sent a French team in, somebody over from the UK, the French promoter (Nous Productions) and the head of the merchandising company. They swept through the building to clear the backline from the stage and all the personal effects from the production office and dressing rooms.

Straight from the tour manager's mouth.

http://www.psneurope.com/how-we-escaped-bataclan/

DamagedTrax

DamagedTrax wrote: »

So ive provided evidence that backs my assumption, depending on the timeline. If you're going to claim im wrong, provide the evidence to show it. Show me a picture of Shawns gear sitting in the venue with the dead bodies. Or show me where Shawn talks about loading out around dead bodies.. He recalls everything else quite clearly.

If you cant, you're assuming just as much as i am.

Yes, I am assuming. But my assumptions are reasonable and are not relying on a big conspiracy there's no evidence for and makes no sense.

Your explanation is that the equipment vanished somehow for no reason to serve a purpose you can't explain to benefit a conspiracy you can't point to.

In my explanations I offered as examples I suggested that the police themselves removed the equipment after the technical examination of the scene and either kept them as evidence or returned them to the owners.
Can you detail how this cannot be the explanation?
Why is this explanation not reasonable while yours is?

DamagedTrax

King Mob wrote: »

Yes, I am assuming. But my assumptions are reasonable and are not relying on a big conspiracy there's no evidence for and makes no sense.

Your explanation is that the equipment vanished somehow for no reason to serve a purpose you can't explain to benefit a conspiracy you can't point to.

In my explanations I offered as examples I suggested that the police themselves removed the equipment after the technical examination of the scene and either kept them as evidence or returned them to the owners.
Can you detail how this cannot be the explanation?
Why is this explanation not reasonable while yours is?

i edited my post. please have another look at it.

DamagedTrax

DamagedTrax wrote: »

i edited my post. please have another look at it.

I have looked at it. Doesn't address my points.

Given the interview above the explanation is that the police removed the equipment before the bodies but after the technical examination of the scene and kept it for evidence or until they could return it.

Can you detail how this cannot be the explanation?
Why is this explanation not reasonable while yours is?

What is the alternative explanation? Who do you think removed the equipment and for what purpose and how does that indicate a conspiracy?

DamagedTrax

King Mob wrote: »

I
Given the interview above the explanation is that the police removed the equipment before the bodies but after the technical examination of the scene and kept it for evidence or until they could return it.

It suggests nothing of the sort. This clearly suggests the backline was collected from the theatre.

Did you go back to the theatre?
No, it was decided that wasn’t right for me. I sent a French team in, somebody over from the UK, the French promoter (Nous Productions) and the head of the merchandising company. They swept through the building to clear the backline from the stage and all the personal effects from the production office and dressing rooms.

He also says this

Everything was house except backline

So now we now know the mixer supposedly belonged to the bataclan.. where the hell is it gone? If the cops took it, why not the other house mixer too?

And why would he say that anyway, since Shawn has been touring the same desk (and tweeted videos of himself on it)? This all stinks.

DamagedTrax

K.Flyer wrote: »

As you say, until the engineer clarifies the timing of events it all looks a bit odd.
If he was allowed to take down and load out before that picture was taken, I can only imagine it must have been a very surreal time for him and the crew and that it was done with the consent of the Police investigators.
The only other logical explanation would be is that the police moved the equipment themselves to have it out of their way.

From interview linked above, tour manager is claiming only backline was band's.. which means one midas desk has gone walkabouts, the other house desk hasnt.

Atlantic Dawn

How many people would it take to stay quiet over this for it to stay real? I am guessing 50 plus, very unlikely to happen especially with people and a lot of them actually killed, nobody would want to appear to be hidding information on this.

DamagedTrax

One report suggested the mixing desk took some bullets…

People’s recollections differ greatly. One thing you have to remember is most the band and crew got out reasonably quickly, When you start to analyse people’s statements, the fear they had, they tend to vary – of course they exaggerate: three guys walked into the Bataclan and started killing people! That’s a pretty tense situation to be in, and nobody’s memory is ever going to be 100% efficient – including mine. It’s very difficult to quantify a lot of it. But I do have photographic evidence of everything, and I can assure you it’s not quite how it was originally remembered.

What a strange answer to a question specifically aimed at the desk! Why not give a straight answer? yes it was or no it wasnt?

Guy:Incognito

Do the bands just sit their own mixer on top of the house one, using it as a desk? Could it have been knocked off in the chaos?

DamagedTrax

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Do the bands just sit their own mixer on top of the house one, using it as a desk? Could it have been knocked off in the chaos?

Depends on the size. It would need to be pretty small though. Any weight would cause it to slide and vibrate (it would be sitting atop knobs and faders at a 30/40 degree, downward angle). But that doesnt matter now as the interview i found (linked above) has the tour manager saying they used the house desk. Since the house desk in the photo is 100% not the one being used in the video, either he's lying or the 2nd house mixer is missing from the photo.

By the way, the chances of a venue keeping 2 mixers like that are pretty slim. Installation is messy and not just a case of plugging it in/out. Same as removing it. it's not a quick job.

DamagedTrax

DamagedTrax wrote: »

It suggests nothing of the sort. This clearly suggests the backline was collected from the theatre.

So then why can't it have just been moved inside the theatre for any number of reasons?
Why not taken, then brought back to the theatre to be collected.
Why not him refering to other equipment in the back line, since he doesn't mention the deck?

Again, this is a huge assumption you are making to get to a cconspiracy, yet you are dismissing other reasonable possibilities as assumptions.

DamagedTrax wrote: »

So now we now know the mixer supposedly belonged to the bataclan.. where the hell is it gone? If the cops took it, why not the other house mixer too?

As has been mentioned, perhaps they believed that it might have been hit with some bullets, and took it for examination.

What's the conspiracy explanation?
Why did the deck vanish and for what purpose?

DamagedTrax wrote: »

And why would he say that anyway, since Shawn has been touring the same desk (and tweeted videos of himself on it)? This all stinks.

Are you claiming that he is in on the conspiracy too?

Dohnjoe

DamagedTrax wrote: »

And why would he say that anyway, since Shawn has been touring the same desk (and tweeted videos of himself on it)? This all stinks.

Bear in mind you have limited information, no real detailed knowledge of the crime scene and limited resources

Without this information I am sure there are hundreds of details about these attacks that might seem unexplainable (and even details that are not yet known or understood by investigators)

Deducing that somehow there is a vast conspiracy because one small aspect can't be explained to someone outside the case is a giant leap, not a smoking gun

Overheal

I'm also inclined to believe that authorities returned the equipment to the owner of it; audio equipment was likely not seen as a piece of evidence and it's how whoever owned the equipment earns a living.

DamagedTrax

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Deducing that somehow there is a vast conspiracy because one small aspect can't be explained to someone outside the case is a giant leap, not a smoking gun

Luckily the only deduction ive made is that depending on the timeline, the photo is/isnt from when it claims to be.

Im sure there's a thread in here on the vast conspiracy, its just not this one.

DamagedTrax

Overheal wrote: »

I'm also inclined to believe that authorities returned the equipment to the owner of it; audio equipment was likely not seen as a piece of evidence and it's how whoever owned the equipment earns a living.

Here's my problem.

1. Tour manager says they used venue desk and collected their backline (kit/amps etc) a few weeks later and then incinerated it.

2. Video of desk on night shows the opposite. Shawn London using the desk that he used on the rest of the tour.

#1 props up story told in the photo.. but is only someone's word and contradicts the video evidence from the night.

#2 props up my theory... but totally contradicts what the tour manager says.

Then in the interview when asked specifically about the desk, the tour manager starts saying some weird stuff (basically calling Shawn a liar) and avoids the question. This is completely out of wack with the rest of his responses in the interview, which seem quite together and calm.

Dohnjoe

DamagedTrax wrote: »

Luckily the only deduction ive made is that depending on the timeline, the photo is/isnt from when it claims to be.

Im sure there's a thread in here on the vast conspiracy, its just not this one.

Ah fair enough, I felt it was being hinted it.

DamagedTrax

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Ah fair enough, I felt it was being hinted it.

Not at all. I just wanted to focus on the picture, video and human account evidence, surrounding the desk.

Overheal

Off topic posts deleted

returningexlie

Alternatively, the other desk was part of the venue, and the band brought their own kit. Or the band unpacked their kit, and then decided the venues own mixing equipment was superior and left it to be tidied after the gig.