The Box Kick?

OneoOne1

Can anyone explain to me the use of the box kick.

I will watch a team spend ten minutes trying to get a turnover and as soon as they get the ball they box kick it back to the opposition.

Has anyone actually done statistics on it. As far as I can see with my limited knowledge of rugby, 90% of box kicks go straight back with little to no contesting.

As a Munster fan it drives me mad.

irishbucsfan

Duncan Casey explained some of the thought process here:

http://www.irishexaminer.com/rwc15/rwc15-analysis/duncan-casey-the-benefits-of-kicking-away-possession-358625.html

sydthebeat

http://www.rugbydump.com/2015/10/4718/rugby-tactics-box-kicking

lots to learn here....

Duggie2012

its a complete waste of possesion. should only be used in extreme circumstances. watch new zealand, they rarely ever use it.

irishbucsfan

Duggie2012 wrote: »

its a complete waste of possesion. should only be used in extreme circumstances. watch new zealand, they rarely ever use it.

New Zealand kick more than any other international side

Donnielighto

irishbucsfan wrote: »

New Zealand kick more than any other international side

Specifically box kick though? I don know, just wondering.

sydthebeat

Duggie2012 wrote: »

its a complete waste of possesion. should only be used in extreme circumstances. watch new zealand, they rarely ever use it.

:D:D:D:D


jesus, i nearly fell off my seat laughing at this.

Aaron smiths probably the best box kicker in the world.....

pickarooney

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Duncan Casey explained some of the thought process here:

http://www.irishexaminer.com/rwc15/rwc15-analysis/duncan-casey-the-benefits-of-kicking-away-possession-358625.html

Virtually none of that article refers to box kicking, which involves kicking into undefended space behind the scrum. Aerial duels are not a feature of the box kick, that's what garryowens are for.

irishbucsfan

pickarooney wrote: »

Virtually none of that article refers to box kicking, which involves kicking into undefended space behind the scrum. Aerial duels are not a feature of the box kick, that's what garryowens are for.

The term is also used to refer to contestable kicks from the scrum half and that's actually the most common usage of it these days.

sydthebeat

pickarooney wrote: »

Aerial duels are not a feature of the box kick, that's what garryowens are for.

seriously?

no less that the RWC2015 semi final

i cant believe someone would actually even try to make your argument, your so wide of the mark

Dravokivich

My understanding is the "box" is meant to be a reference to empty space behind the defending team. So a kick over the gain line that is not into empty space is not a box kick.

sydthebeat

Dravokivich wrote: »

My understanding is the "box" is meant to be a reference to empty space behind the defending team. So a kick over the gain line that is not into empty space is not a box kick.

No

a box kick is simply a kick by, usually the scrum half, from the back of a ruck, maul or scrum

its called a 'box' kick because of the space the kicker usually has to kick within... ie within narrow confines but still behind the offside line, no run up, generally from a stand still ie "within a box"

thomond2006

It's overused by teams incapable of executing it correctly.

pickarooney

sydthebeat wrote: »

No

a box kick is simply a kick by, usually the scrum half, from the back of a ruck, maul or scrum

its called a 'box' kick because of the space the kicker usually has to kick within... ie within narrow confines but still behind the offside line, no run up, generally from a stand still ie "within a box"

Dravokivich is right. Your interpretation is a revisionist definition that doesn't make much sense. The kicker is not enclosed from behind, hence no 'box'.

Box kicking, in its original definition at least, is not designed to give possession straight back but to turn the defence and allow runners to attack the space. It's more akin to a chip over the top than a high contestable.

irishbucsfan

pickarooney wrote: »

Dravokivich is right. Your interpretation is a revisionist definition that doesn't make much sense. The kicker is not enclosed from behind, hence no 'box'.

Box kicking, in its original definition at least, is not designed to give possession straight back but to turn the defence and allow runners to attack the space. It's more akin to a chip over the top than a high contestable.

That's no longer an accurate definition. Hence the beginning of that article (and the OP of this thread) not making sense under your definition:

"We’re all familiar with it. That collective groan that surrounds you at a stadium or pub when Conor Murray launches another box kick into the sky."

It's used to describe the technique itself these days.

pickarooney

In that case I'm with the OP in not understanding. The chasers are too far behind the ball most of the time to have a chance at claiming it.

irishbucsfan

pickarooney wrote: »

In that case I'm with the OP in not understanding. The chasers are too far behind the ball most of the time to have a chance at claiming it.

Right but the point is not to contest the ball in the air, the point is to put the opposition under pressure from first phase after it and win possession/penalties even further up the field.

[Thornley]Comme Ca:[/Thornley]

pickarooney

That's not what you were saying a few hours ago!

Or else I misread and you didn't mean aerial contestables like Syd but challenges on the ground.

irishbucsfan

pickarooney wrote: »

That's not what you were saying a few hours ago!

Or else I misread and you didn't mean aerial contestables like Syd but challenges on the ground.

No you're right it's not what I said earlier but it's all within a similar school of exit strategies really I'd say

Tim Robbins

In a VI nations match when Ireland were box kicking it a lot, my son age 6 asked me why do Ireland keep kicking it to the opposition whereas New Zealand kick it into a space for a player to run onto like Ben Smith did in World Cup final?

I just said New Zealand are much better than Ireland.

sydthebeat

pickarooney wrote: »

Dravokivich is right. Your interpretation is a revisionist definition that doesn't make much sense. The kicker is not enclosed from behind, hence no 'box'.

Box kicking, in its original definition at least, is not designed to give possession straight back but to turn the defence and allow runners to attack the space. It's more akin to a chip over the top than a high contestable.

if your using antiquated definitions we should just revert back and describe a 'try' as an event which allows a kick at goal. :rolleyes:

by your definition bundee aki's kick through for niyis try against Glasgow was a 'box kick'... but of course we all know it wasnt.

i posted a link to a semi final of the last world cup showing exactly what a box kick is and how it can be a successful method of pressurizing the opposition and / or relieving your own pressure.

look up any coaching manual for a definition and description of a box kick if your still in doubt.

pickarooney

sydthebeat wrote: »

by your definition bundee aki's kick through for niyis try against Glasgow was a 'box kick'... but of course we all know it wasnt.
.

Nonsense. A grubber is not a box kick. A grubber is played short along the ground, facing the direction of play, in open play.

sydthebeat

pickarooney wrote: »

Nonsense. A grubber is not a box kick. A grubber is played short along the ground, facing the direction of play, in open play.

Exactly
Which is why I said your definition above is wrong, and why I said we all know that it is.

pickarooney

sydthebeat wrote: »

Exactly
Which is why I said your definition above is wrong, and why I said we all know that it is.

What's the difference between a box kick and a garryowen in your opinion then? The shirt number?

sydthebeat

pickarooney wrote: »

What's the difference between a box kick and a garryowen in your opinion then? The shirt number?

The style of kick obviously.

A garryowen is by definition contestable. It can be made by any player in any phase.

A box kick doesn't have to be contestable, though often is.

Its the kicking style and location that makes it a box kick ie stationary behind the offside line, which is usually a ruck or maul.

Ask yourself, why are they called "pillars" rucks?

irishbucsfan

The "box" in box kick refers to the space behind the breakdown or scrum. That's just the origin of the name of the kick though it doesn't mean box kicks are only kicks looking for space.

Tim Robbins

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Right but the point is not to contest the ball in the air, the point is to put the opposition under pressure from first phase after it and win possession/penalties even further up the field.

[Thornley]Comme Ca:[/Thornley]

Few interesting things on that clip. Even though Murray kicks it, 7 other player make it there before him. 3 or 4 of them were in front of him when he kicked and then brought onside by some speedy backs. When the ball breaks loose, you could argue someone else should step in as scrummie and give next attack another second.

irishbucsfan

Tim Robbins wrote: »

Few interesting things on that clip. Even though Murray kicks it, 7 other player make it there before him. 3 or 4 of them were in front of him when he kicked and then brought onside by some speedy backs. When the ball breaks loose, you could argue someone else should step in as scrummie and give next attack another second.

Well this is completely off-topic but by the time the ball is won he is at the base of the ruck, would have made no difference.

pickarooney

To be honest, while most of Aaron Smith's kicks are what I'd call box kicks in form and function, to me Du Preez is just launching a series of garryowens for the wingers to chase.

sydthebeat

pickarooney wrote: »

To be honest, while most of Aaron Smith's kicks are what I'd call box kicks in form and function, to me Du Preez is just launching a series of garryowens for the wingers to chase.

a garryowen is simply a high contestable kick, from what ive ever known it as.

so yes, you could describe some of Du Preezs kicks as garryowens but thats not to say they arent "box kicks" by their nature, they arent mutually exclusive.

theres a good example of a garryowen here at 1:28 and a box kick at 1:40