"dope and glory"

Fian

http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2016/jun/01/dope-and-glory-the-rise-of-cheating-in-amateur-sport



I can't really imagine people would bother heating like this in a sportive, particularly not with drugs that have adverse health effects.

On the other hand if someone wants to cycle up a hill with an electric assisted bike outside of a race, just doing their own thing, I couldn't imagine being irritated by it. I see people with batteries on their bike a few times a week on my commute, why on earth would I be annoyed about it?

terrydel

Strava has a lot to answer for.

Doc07

'Let he who is without sin cast the first stone'
I took 2 pseudofed tabs for my sinusitis dying the WW200 last year. I'm waiting for the T&R amnesty before I admit it publicly.

godtabh

terrydel wrote: »

Strava has a lot to answer for.

what's strava got to do with it? If people are that stupid to cheat as an amateur if it isnt strava it would be something else. Take some personal responsibility for your own actions.

CramCycle

I came in 6th place in my club league last week. Disconnected my insulin pump just before as I didn't want to be accused of both motor and biological doping at once..

smacl

godtabh wrote: »

what's strava got to do with it? If people are that stupid to cheat as an amateur if it isnt strava it would be something else. Take some personal responsibility for your own actions.

Yes indeed, they still haven't come up with a cure for stupid. I think apps like strava that encourage you to strive to improve are good when used sensibly. I'm at a level and inclination where the only person I'll likely be competing with is myself, but seeing and monitoring progress is important. I saw a post up here awhile back, stating the hierarchy of results in a sportive isn't 1st, 2nd, 3rd, loser, it is finished, didn't finish, didn't start, didn't enter.

DanDublin1982

It's a really fascinating subject. I can certainly see the attraction in doing it even if I have no inclination to do so myself. I have my personal cycling goals and while I am striving for a KOM here or there if I never get them well I'm OK with that too. Other think differently to me, so be it.

wanderer 22

The oddest thing about that article is that Graham was so annoyed.

Eponymous

smacl wrote: »

Yes indeed, they still haven't come up with a cure for stupid. I think apps like strava that encourage you to strive to improve are good when used sensibly. I'm at a level and inclination where the only person I'll likely be competing with is myself, but seeing and monitoring progress is important. I saw a post up here awhile back, stating the hierarchy of results in a sportive isn't 1st, 2nd, 3rd, loser, it is finished, didn't finish, didn't start, didn't enter.

New to all of this and use Strava as a means to measure my own progress. Sure, it's nice to see that I'm not the worst person ever on any given segment, but all I'm interested in is improving on my own PRs.

It's also nice as social media to see what my buddies are up to and they can see what I've done rather than troubling the whole of facebook or twitter!

Carawaystick

colm18 wrote: »

The oddest thing about that article is that Graham was so annoyed.

Yeah. Why get stressed out about something like this?

terrydel

godtabh wrote: »

what's strava got to do with it? If people are that stupid to cheat as an amateur if it isnt strava it would be something else. Take some personal responsibility for your own actions.

My actions?
Your argument is no different than saying if EPO didnt exist it would be something else. Of course, but both do exist and that very existence encourages those who have a propencity to cheat to do so.
You cannot say that the existence of strava and its ilk has not lead to this type of behaviour, therefore it is at leats in part responsible, it plays a significant role. That cannot be denied.

Leroy42

Eponymous wrote: »

New to all of this and use Strava as a means to measure my own progress. Sure, it's nice to see that I'm not the worst person ever on any given segment, but all I'm interested in is improving on my own PRs.

It's also nice as social media to see what my buddies are up to and they can see what I've done rather than troubling the whole of facebook or twitter!

That's how it always starts. Just happy to be cycling at all, then you don't want to be the worst, then midtable will be fine.

Then its only 20 secs from top 10, suddenly you're obsessing about wind direction and l only doing routes that target particular segments.

Suddenly you're kom, you bask in the glow but soon get the email telling you you've been bested. You are now madly trying to work out some reason to flag the ride, no way that was legit. Damn it, all looks kosher so its off to get a new bike, deep dish wheels, some aero gear.

Then its diet, then supplements and then some legit drugs to numb the pain or help you sleep.

And its not many more steps from there

CramCycle

When I worked in town, I used to meet a guy coming along Angelsea road with a motor in his bike. Very discrete but decent. Used to top out handily enough at 35kmph.

I liked the challenge he presented, to get bitter over someone who is clearly using a different mode of transport is weird and childish and I pity Grahame. It makes me think of those people sitting in their cars, daydreaming, as they stare at my perfectly formed behind, thinking how theirs could be easily as pert.

If only they didn't motor dope.

NB I didn't like him beause he ran the red lights in Ballsbridge but thats another story

bren_mc

terrydel wrote: »

My actions?
Your argument is no different than saying if EPO didnt exist it would be something else. Of course, but both do exist and that very existence encourages those who have a propencity to cheat to do so.
You cannot say that the existence of strava and its ilk has not lead to this type of behaviour, therefore it is at leats in part responsible, it plays a significant role. That cannot be denied.

By "strava and its ilk", do you mean racing or any form of competition?

Dades

I'll stick to battling it out on Strava with my next door neighbour for a stretch on the Rock Road.

But now that I think about it... he has been putting in some not normal times... :pac:

smacl

terrydel wrote: »

Your argument is no different than saying if EPO didnt exist it would be something else.

What, like motor doping? Cheaters going to cheat, and it is not the hidden motor that is at fault, it is the person using it covertly where they're not supposed to. Strava is fun and competitive, much like a video game but involves getting healthier while playing. The fact that some people take it deadly seriously and behave stupidly in doing so is the same as someone taking a casual game of football seriously or their kids winning the egg and spoon race at the school sports day seriously. You'll always have some people like that. Some of them use strava. The problem doesn't lie with the egg or the spoon or strava for that matter.

DKmac

KOM's aren't worth the screen they are printed on and anyone who goes chasing them is a sad c*nt. Were they dragged up most of the way by a speeding bunch (or behind a tractor!)? Should a lad who flies off a climbing bunch get more kudos than a guy who solo climbs up a second slower? Was it at the beginning or end of a spin? Was it the only part of the spin? Was it a storm desmond type tail-wind?

NeedMoreGears

DKmac wrote: »

KOM's aren't worth the screen they are printed on and anyone who goes chasing them is a sad c*nt.

That's what all the slow guys say! - only kidding. I think it is genuinely a bit sad if someone feels the need to dope/motorise their bike just to be at the top of some list or other.

Having said that, Strava segments/trying to do a good time in a sportif is tremendously good fun. Sneaking up a few places (usually from mid table mediocrity to a slight faster mid table mediocrity) - even with a bit of wind assistance - is a great craic, especially when you know that it won't last 'cos there will be a windier day/faster rider along anytime soon.

The bit that really intrigues me is that, for me, completing a segment quickly with wind assistance is perfectly ok, whereas doing it at the same speed with a motor is not. I haven't figured out where I am as regards using a bus or tractor to block the wind.

So many shades of grey.....