LCU AGM motions

cdeb

That time of year again - just 11 motions this time. I think the pre-discussion here has worked well in previous years. The motions, then, are -



Motion 1
7.4

a) Divisions One and Two:

Two options are available, the standard time control and a Fischer mode. For games played using the standard time control each player shall receive two hours for all his moves. For games played using the Fischer mode, each player shall receive one hour thirty minutes plus a thirty second increment for each move from move one. If one of the players wishes to play the game using Fischer mode then the game must be played using that time control. Exceptions can be made if the home team does not have digital clocks, or both players agree to use the standard two hour time control.

b) Divisions Three, Four and Five:

Each player shall receive one hour forty-five minutes for all his moves.

Change to

a) Divisions One, Two and Three:

Two options are available, the standard time control and a Fischer mode. For games played using the standard time control each player shall receive two hours for all his moves. For games played using the Fischer mode, each player shall receive one hour thirty minutes plus a thirty second increment for each move from move one. If one of the players wishes to play the game using Fischer mode then the game must be played using that time control. Exceptions can be made if the home team does not have digital clocks, or both players agree to use the standard two hour time control.

b) Divisions Four and Five:

Each player shall receive one hour forty-five minutes for all his moves.

(Executive committee)

Motion 2
7.15

Players must arrive at the board not later than one hour from the scheduled start time of the game. Players who arrive after the scheduled start time but no later than one hour after the scheduled start time attract no more than the accrued time penalty.

Change to

The default time for a match is one hour. Players who arrive after one hour having passed on the clock lose the game. Players who arrive after the start time but no later than one hour having passed on the clock attract no more than the accrued time penalty.

(Executive committee)

Motion 3
7.4

a) Divisions One, Two and Three:

Two options are available, the standard time control and a Fischer mode. For games played using the standard time control each player shall receive two hours for all his moves. For games played using the Fischer mode, each player shall receive one hour thirty minutes plus a thirty second increment for each move from move one. If one of the players wishes to play the game using Fischer mode then the game must be played using that time control. Exceptions can be made if the home team does not have digital clocks, or both players agree to use the standard two hour time control.

Change to

a) Divisions One, Two and Three:

Two options are available, the standard time control and a Fischer mode. For games played using the standard time control each player shall receive two hours for all his moves. For games played using the Fischer mode, each player shall receive one hour thirty minutes plus a thirty second increment for each move from move one. If one of the players wishes to play the game using Fischer mode then the game must be played using that time control, unless the home team does not have digital clock.

In cases where the venue has a set closing time (e.g. 11:15pm), the home team may choose to use the standard time control of two hours per player. Such teams should communicate this in advance of games.

(Executive committee)

Motion 4
LCU Cup Rules.

(Executive committee)

Motion 5
That all chess clubs in Leinster should ensure that visiting players have access, in and out of the match venue at all times. Failure to comply, incurs a one point deduction.

(Bray Chess Club)

Motion 6
6.12

A player, under the age of 18 on 1st January following the commencement of the league, may be placed ahead of a team member whose rating is 150 or more rating points higher but less than 300 rating points and, who is over the age of 18 on 1st January following the commencement of the league.

Add the words (see rule 6.12) to rules 6.7, 6.8a, 6.8b, 6.8c

(Bray Chess Club)

Motion 7
7.3

The playing session in each of the divisions shall be as follows. a) Divisions One and Two 7:15 pm to 11.15 pm b) All other Divisions 7:30 pm to 11.00 pm c) A club may nominate Saturday afternoon for its home matches. Matches played on a Saturday may commence between 1:00 pm and 2.30 pm at the discretion of the home team

(Curragh chess club)

Motion 8
No Controller in any league may be able to give judgment/make a ruling on a dispute involving his own club as it can lead to a conflict of interests. Such disputes should be either headed to a neutral controller or passed to a committee made up of members from neither club involved in the dispute

(Round Tower chess club)

Motion 9
Any team deemed to have fielded an illegal player not only lose the point for the board the offence took place but such also incur a penalty point for that board ie -1 from the teams overall total.

(Round Tower chess club)

Motion 10
That all results are not printed until all games for a particular round are in as in some cases a team may have played 2 extra games before another team which gives some teams an advantage over another team.

(Round Tower chess club)

Motion 11
Motion to allow Fischer time control option in divisions 3 to 7

Currently the LCU rule pertaining to time controls is as follows:

7.4 The time controls in each of the divisions shall be as follows.

a) Divisions One and Two:

Two options are available, the standard time control and a Fischer mode. For games played using the standard time control each player shall receive two hours for all his moves. For games played using the Fischer mode each player shall receive one hour thirty minutes plus a thirty second increment for each move from move one. If one of the players wishes to play the game using Fischer mode then the game must be played using that time control. Exceptions can be made if the home team does not have digital clocks, or both players agree to use the standard two hour time control.

b) Divisions Three, Four and Five:

Each player shall receive one hour forty-five minutes for all his moves.

c) Division Six:

Each player shall receive one hour thirty minutes for all his moves.

We propose to amend parts (b) and (c) of the rule as follows:

7.4 b) Divisions Three, Four and Five: Two options are available, the standard time control, which is the default, and a Fischer mode, an option which may be used if both players agree. For games played using the standard time control each player shall receive one hour and forty-five minutes for all his moves. For games played using the Fischer mode each player shall receive one hour and fifteen minutes plus a thirty second increment for each move from move one.

c) Divisions Six and Seven: Two options are available, the standard time control, which is the default, and a Fischer mode, an option which may be used if both players agree. For games played using the standard time control each player shall receive one hour and thirty minutes for all his moves. For games played using the Fischer mode each player shall receive one hour plus a thirty second increment for each move from move one.

The time controls in each of the divisions can be summarised as in the following table. In divisions 3 to 7 Fischer time controls may be used where both players agree. Otherwise the standard time controls must be used. In Fischer mode the increments shall be added from move one.

Divisions Standard Fischer 30 s increment

1 and 2 2 hours for all moves (optional) 1 hour 30 minutes + 30 seconds/move (default)

3, 4 and 5 1 hour and 45 minutes for all moves (default) 1 hour 15 minutes + 30 seconds/move (optional)

6 and 7 1 hour and 30 minutes for all moves (default) 1 hour + 30 seconds/move (optional)

Any division N minutes for all moves

(Skerries Chess Club)

Motion No. 12

To alter Rules 6.8 and 6.9 of the LCU League Rules (re. illegal players)

Present Wording of Rules

6.8

a) No player is placed ahead of a team member whose rating is 150 or more rating points higher. The criteria

---

.

6.9

Players and teams offending against rule 6.8 will have any points won by the illegal player(s) deducted and awarded to their opponents and may have any points gained on boards lower than that on which the infringement took place likewise deducted and awarded to their opponents.

Problems with Rules 6.8 and 6.9

1) The present wording does not explicitly define who the illegal players are.

2) The number of points to be deducted is arbitrary and leaves this to the judgement of the Controller which has proved controversial in the past.

Underlying Principle to be observed by the Rule

It would seem logical to reword the rule in such a way that a player(s) on any board benefitting by the misplacement of a fellow team member should be deemed an illegal player(s) and forfeit any points gained to the opposing team. In other words, a player placed below a team member whose rating is 150 points or more lower, is to be deemed an illegal player.

Proposal

To implement the underlying principle as stated above, it is proposed to amend the wording of rules

6.8 a) and 6.9 to the following:

6.8 a)

Any player placed below a team member whose rating is 150 points or more lower, is to be deemed an illegal player. The criteria

---

6.9

A team offending against rule 6.8 will have any points won by the illegal player(s) deducted and awarded to the opposing team. In extraordinary circumstances, further points may be deducted at the discretion of the LCU Executive Committee.

Some examples follow to illustrate the application of this proposal.

Board Rating

1 2300

2 1749

3 1900

4 1850

5 1800

6 1750

7 1700

8 1700

Example #1. The player on board 2 above is misplaced as board 3 is rated 151 points higher. This clearly benefits the board 3 player who should be declared illegal. The board 2 player, although misplaced, does not benefit from this misplacement and so should be considered a legal player and entitled to any points gained in that game.

Another Example (#2)

Board Rating

1 1500

2 2300

3 2100

4 2000

5 1900

6 1800

7 1750

8 1700

Here boards 2 to 8 have all benefitted by the misplacement of the 1500 rated player on board 1 and so must be declared illegal. Another Example (#3)

Board Rating

1 2300

2 2100

3 1800

4 1960

5 1700

6 1860

7 1800

8 1860

The situation here is more complex. The player on board 3 is misplaced and this benefits board 4 who must be declared illegal. The board 3 misplacement has not benefitted boards 5 to 8 so they would be legal if board 3 was the only misplacement. This however is not the case. Board 5 is also misplaced and this has benefitted boards 6 and 8 (but not board 7) so the players on boards 6 and 8 must also be declared illegal. (Executive committee)

cdeb

My thoughts -

Motions 1, 3 and motion 11 should probably be considered together. Bringing in Fischer time in the Ennis doesn't really bother me. I don't like Skerries' motion though, even though it's improved on a similar motion from a couple of years ago. I'm basically old-fashioned and really don't see the need for increments in the bottom divisions. Though I can't see our teams agreeing to them anyway - parents want clarity on when players will be back from away games, and explaining how Fischer time means the games can go on and on and on really doesn't give that!)

Motion 3 seems reasonable if Fischer time is brought in.

Motion 2 is reasonable (allows for games starting at 7:15 "Irish time")

Haven't gone through the Cup rules yet (motion 4)

I don't understand the point of motion 5?

Don't see the need for motion 6 - the 150-point rule (as amended by the 1200 rule) helps cater to juniors anyway. If their rating increases hugely over the season (not all that common), then it'll do them good to play lower-rated players and have to beat them anyway.

Motion 7 can be agreed between clubs anyway. I know the reason for the rule, though it would want to be adequately communicated to team captains if all of, say, Curragh's home games are now 1pm rather than 2:30.

Motion 8 should just pass such disputes up to the leagues controller. No need for forming sub-committees.

Motion 9 is badly worded I think. What's the difference between the current position anyway? Phibsboro played an illegal player in the last round of the BEA and did get a -1.

Motion 10 has been proposed before and is still daft.

sinbad68

Many of the motions are about what the Time controls should be, but I see NO motion to combat widespread occurrence of WRONG time controls being set on chess clocks and holding anyone accountable ! .

I agree with cdeb's criticism of many of the motions.

bduffy

Motion 7, from the Curragh, like Motion 3 is based on practical grounds.
The accommodation at the Curragh has a closing time of 6:30 on Saturdays which was fine last year for Div 3, 5 & 7.
It caused problems for Div 1 when Fischer mode (pedantic pending) was used as some games usually finished well after 6:30 leading to problems with our landlords.
Therefore the option of an earlier start time is being suggested, as some visiting teams don't agree to requests.
2:30 still works for Div. 3,5 & 7 but maybe 1:30 would suit Div. 2 better.

However if Motion 3 is carried then all games could start at 2:30 in the full knowledge that the venue closes at 6:30.

sinbad68

@bduffy, Then Curragh have a legitimate call to have an earlier start time for their Saturday games or use 2 hours per player Time control. IMO, any team visiting Curragh should bring their own clocks to the venue as Curragh chess clocks have delayed time mechanism and their players can Not be trusted to set the clocks right.

bduffy

@sinbad68, Pedantic anticipated and delivered, thank you.
The aforementioned issue with our Landlord is why you played your game in temporary venue and may have led to confusion with the equipment. I'm glad to see you'll back the motion.

sinbad68

@bduffy. you are welcome, this is a No-brainer. The venue closes at 6:30 pm and the club has No control over it. LCU must accommodate Curragh chess club.

cdeb

A twelfth motion has been added, and is included above. It's to do with clarifying the rule regarding the 150-point rule. That needs doing, as the current rule is unclear alright.

Clarifying who the illegal player is is good, as is the clarification that extra points only be deducted "in extraordinary circumstances"; the current rules say it "may" happen, but the new rule makes it clear it's to be an exception.

I think, though, the examples would benefit from a comment as to what the suggested penalty would be in each case. But other than that, it looks a distinct improvement on the current rule.

GearoidMac

Sinbad
The people accountable for setting up the clocks correctly are the two people playing the game, the same as they are accountable for setting up the board or the pieces.