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Campervan electrics
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27-05-2016 7:25pm#1
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I have a Zig CF8 Charging and distribution system which I plan to wire up as outlined input the diagram on this page ... I also have a Pioneer GM-D8604 1200W Amplifier
Don't bother with the Zig Unit it's not fit for porpoise. The mains charger is poor and they advise putting 15A fuses on much larger alternators. You are putting a 100A load on your alternator with the amplifier.
Starter circuits of vehicles should not be fused because it ends in alternator fires.
Not to mention the fact they are designing a "charging system" with a max charge of 200W and a designed load of 350W...:mad:
When I removed the switch for the auxiliary battery (circled in photo 2) the power was cut to the alternator and the van wouldn’t start.
Vans start without alternators (not recommended), they don't start without starter motors.By connecting the live to the thick and thinner cables that had been coming into the right of the switch pictured I got the van to start again. My first question is that by doing this am I bypassing the fuse that should be between the started battery and the alternator? Could it have been using the fuses in photo 3?
It looks like a contactor but I can't be sure. You may have bypassed a switch not a fuse. There should never be a fuse between a starter battery and an alternator.What gauge wire should I run from the starter battery and the leisure battery (25 Amp fuse)? I’m thinking about buying 4 Sq mm 3 core flex and using one of the cores. Would that do?
Well If you are trying to power a 100A appliance with a nominal rated load of 600W on a 110Ah leisure battery. 25A is not going to cut it and the battery will be on it's knees in no time.
Below schemetic will allow for 750W alternator charge (instead of 200W). Max. combined load 150A : 1.875kW
Amplifier run time with engine off 4.5hours to 50% charge.
Meter included because every system ought to carry a trustworthy meter.
Split charge B+ Y-d from Alternator for better regulation and shorter cable run.
You'll be wanting a ~25A mains charger (60A if you need load compensated charge while powering amp.) and/or I'd throw two modified 60 cell pv modules at it too (~450Wp).
Finally what does the Albright SW80 359 (photo 1) do? And the fuses in photo 3. Can some of this be reused?
It's a state of the art 125A contactor...one of my personal favourites.
Best in production. It's possibly a latching type. I suspect from a low voltage disconnect system from your vehicle's heritage. Lucky find.0 -
Sir Liamalot!
Thank you so much for your detailed and very helpful reply. If you see a battered old sprinter ambulance pulling in to a campsite this summer call over because I owe you a beer.
I had already made a good bit of progress putting in the zig unit when you posted so I'm hear hoping you'll tell me it'll do the job for the short term. I got it for free but being new to this I thought it would simplify the whole setup. I was working off the wiring diagram below (without the 15A fuse) rather than the other one on the post I linked to (which you informed me was dodgy, can't trust the internet
. We will have no fridge and very little else drawing power (LED strips, couple of USB sockets for charging devices).
When you said "The mains charger is poor and they advise putting 15A fuses on much larger alternators. You are putting a 100A load on your alternator with the amplifier." Did you mean when driving with the amp on? I was connecting the amp to the leisure battery which when switched to driving would be drawing power from the engine battery?
Obviously safety is my priority. If the zig is safe just rubbish I'll probably leave it in for the summer (and probably not get much music out of my new amp..) and take on your suggestion as a project for the winter. If it's a potential fire hazard it is of course a different story..
BTW what meter would you recommend?
Thanks again for the advice,
Karl0 -
Sir Liamalot!
Thank you so much for your detailed and very helpful reply. If you see a battered old sprinter ambulance pulling in to a campsite this summer call over because I owe you a beer.
Ha sound, mine's a road warrior too. I'm running out of angles I can make the paint look uniform for the model-shoots.
I rarely berth in campsites but beer is always welcome.
I had already made a good bit of progress putting in the zig unit when you posted so I'm hear hoping you'll tell me it'll do the job for the short term.
It can. It's just a fusebox with relays with a float maintainer saddled to it.
It's rated for max charge 300W + fridge while driving.
There is no fuse indicated between the starter battery and the alternator of either schematic. That line would be best left stock.
The 15A fuse in the drawing you indicate is for the fridge so keep it.
The 25A fuse may be for the charger.When you said "The mains charger is poor and they advise putting 15A fuses on much larger alternators. You are putting a 100A load on your alternator with the amplifier." Did you mean when driving with the amp on? I was connecting the amp to the leisure battery which when switched to driving would be drawing power from the engine battery?
The circuit from the alternator to the house battery is limited to 15A and a fridge, regulated by it's own ineptitude. You can't get power down those feeble cables and if you try a 15A fuse is watchdogging a ~80A alternator. :rolleyes: Shoddy work.
The battery does not power appliances the alternator does while charging a battery. With what you have you'll be hammering a small battery, the alternator while capable of powering the load will be throttled by poor conductors and the amp will be discharging the house battery while you drive.
There's a good chance also your lights are going to dip in tune to the bass with such a big load on a small battery.
You need a new feed from the alternator to your amp battery on massif conductors to power 600W (put a fuse on it because there is no fuse on the starter link and it's not a starter circuit), then put the amp as close to the battery as possible to keep cable short (away from the battery vent path)
I have a 120W 5.1 computer surround system I run from an inverter that's enough to make my ears bleed...
...1200W isa lorra lecky!
..it probably uses way less at low volume and they just wanted to put a big number on the box. :pac:Obviously safety is my priority. If the zig is safe just rubbish I'll probably leave it in for the summer (and probably not get much music out of my new amp..) and take on your suggestion as a project for the winter. If it's a potential fire hazard it is of course a different story..
Safe? I'd go as far to say it's harmless!
BTW what meter would you recommend?
Hands Off Meter
with an ebay ammeter & shunt
or
Hands on Meter0 -
Thanks again for all the advice. Lights dipping with the bass you say? I'm hearing disco lights Yeah I think i must have got a rush of testosterone when I was buying the amp, probably never go above 3. I have 6 speakers, 2 for the cab and 4 for the back I remember doing some calculations at the time and wanted to leave enough to also power a sub-woofer (that I'll probably never get).
Okay I'll finish off what I've started with the Zig unit and test it out in the yard for a few hours when I have the meter hooked up. If it turns out as you suspect (and I think I understand what you are telling me, it makes sense so it most probably will) I'll do as you advise and connect the alternator to the leisure battery (it's all there from its previous life) through a fuse, what amp recommend?0 -
I don't think the average current to the amp will be as crazy as you think. Looking at the amp specs it indicates 33.5A for 400w full spectrum.
Front 2 x 4 ohm = 200w continuous power
Rear 2 x 2 ohm (parallel 4 ohms) = 300w continuous power
Thats at 14.4v which you'll only have with the engine running.
Subtract 15% for battery voltage, subtract 5% for 14 gauge cca speaker cables = approx 400w.
As you say probably won't be turned up anyway. I only have 200w and I can't think of any stationary application other than a show where I could use it all without pissing people off.
Regarding the fuse most of the decent split charge kits come with a pair of 50a/60a fuses, one at each end as a short at either end will set free the magic smoke. If you have parallel leisure batteries or an agm battery and heavy cables you might find it needs a larger fuse.
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I'll do as you advise and connect the alternator to the leisure battery (it's all there from its previous life) through a fuse, what amp recommend?
What size is the alternator.
(high temp tolerant) Cable & fuse size alternator to battery: alternator ampacity rating + 20%.
Cable and fuse battery to amp: Amplifier ampacity rating +20%.
25mm² 125A will probably do for both. A well crimped cable of that calibre ought to resist most mechanical strain so I'm confident to fuse the alternator away from the spiny bits at the battery end.
Crimped lug cross-section.0
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